Wiring for DC and DCC?

[FloridaPanhandler]

Forgive me if any of this has been discussed recently, I haven't had time to visit the forums much lately.  I'm currently finishing up the benchwork (and about halfway done with track laying) for my HO layout.  I plan to use DCC, but it may be awhile before I can afford a full DCC setup, so I've been thinking about just buying a simple DC powerpack and wiring it up so I can get trains running as soon as possible.  Is there a straightforward way to do this?  I don't want to have to wire the layout twice, so if there's some way I could wire it to get the DC up and running, but use the same wiring scheme later for DCC, that would be preferable.  I don't need to do any fancy block DC wiring, I'll be content just to wire the mainline and sidings for some simple running while I continue work on the layout.  Can anyone offer me some suggestions?  Thanks!

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

Forgive me if any of this has been discussed recently, I haven't had time to visit the forums much lately.  I'm currently finishing up the benchwork (and about halfway done with track laying) for my HO layout.  I plan to use DCC, but it may be awhile before I can afford a full DCC setup, so I've been thinking about just buying a simple DC powerpack and wiring it up so I can get trains running as soon as possible.  Is there a straightforward way to do this?  I don't want to have to wire the layout twice, so if there's some way I could wire it to get the DC up and running, but use the same wiring scheme later for DCC, that would be preferable.  I don't need to do any fancy block DC wiring, I'll be content just to wire the mainline and sidings for some simple running while I continue work on the layout.  Can anyone offer me some suggestions?  Thanks!

If you don't need more than 1 block, just wire it for DCC and hook up a DC controller.  You're done!

 

[claymore1977]

Vail's is right on target with that one.  If you have an idea how how you are going to distribute your power districts when you do upgrade to DCC, perhaps you could wire up the layout such that each future DCC Power District is its own DC block now .  MIGHT save time later if you plan on using power districts...

[Anonymous]

So far as I can tell, wiring for DCC means no need for seperate blocks or cabs, and no power routing in your switches (everything hot at all times). This is becuase DCC controls the locomotive and there is no NEED for dead sections of track with DCC. However,  blocks and cabs and power routing switches CAN still be used with DCC. It will work. Just not as necesarry as with DC.

I wired all my track with Peco Insulfrogs, had dead sidings, and power routing switches, no seperate power districts and got things running with DC, then simply plugged my DCC system in and it worked just fine.

 Bottom line, you don't really have to do anything different wiring for DCC in spite of what everyone says.

[Vail and Southwestern RR]

 Bottom line, you don't really have to do anything different wiring for DCC in spite of what everyone says.

I think it would be more accurate to say that you don't have to wire DC any differently than DCC, except for blocks and cabs.  I only say that because with DCC you should be a little more careful to ensure you have enough current carrying capacity throughout the layout, you can be a little more lax with DC.  But if it will work for DCC, it will work for DC.

 

[Greg H.]

Ok, so for a beginner that has nothing more than a loop ( or even a complex loop ) how does someone properly wire turnouts and such ?

I've read a number of books on it, yet they always leave me feeling like there was alot that wasn't explained.

[claymore1977]

Ok, so for a beginner that has nothing more than a loop ( or even a complex loop ) how does someone properly wire turnouts and such ?

I've read a number of books on it, yet they always leave me feeling like there was alot that wasn't explained.

By this do you mean:

1. How do I wire track power on branchlines?  or
2. How do I wire the turnout motor/solenoid?

Additionally, are you asking for DC or DCC?

[FloridaPanhandler]

Thanks everyone for the replies so far, and I'm also interested to hear replies to Greg's question about wiring turnouts.

[Greg H.]

Ok, so for a beginner that has nothing more than a loop ( or even a complex loop ) how does someone properly wire turnouts and such ?

I've read a number of books on it, yet they always leave me feeling like there was alot that wasn't explained.

By this do you mean:

1. How do I wire track power on branchlines?  or
2. How do I wire the turnout motor/solenoid?

Additionally, are you asking for DC or DCC?

Yes to all of the above. 

What I hear is, going to DCC, takes care of alot of those problems, but, I also hear that DCC, is more sensivive to wireing screwup's, and the last thing I want to do, is create a short that frys a $300+ piece of equipment the first time I turn it on.

[claymore1977]

Yes to all of the above. 

What I hear is, going to DCC, takes care of alot of those problems, but, I also hear that DCC, is more sensivive to wireing screwup's, and the last thing I want to do, is create a short that frys a $300+ piece of equipment the first time I turn it on.

Well, nothing is fool proof, but wiring up a DCC system is A) Not very hard at all, especially for a simple loop like you are hinting at and B) the systems are designed to be pretty fault tolerant.

By this do you mean:

1. How do I wire track power on branchlines?  or
2. How do I wire the turnout motor/solenoid?

Well...

 1)  As long as there is not a loopback or reversing loop, then wiring is very straight forward.  Wire the two "To track" jacks on the back of the DCC power booster to the rails.  Done.

You can put in a few taps around the layout to make sure you are getting good signal , just keep the polarities consistant (or you will get a short)

2)  Completely turnout dependant. 

If you are using the solenoid type turnouts, then just use a SPDT momentary toggle or two SPST momentary (normally Open) pushbuttons.  There was a recent thread about this, btw.

If you are talking about tortoise motors, then they have some great documentation on the many ways you can wire those up on their website.

Additionally, if you plan on controlling the turnouts from a stationary DCC decoder, then you will need to consult the documentation that came with the decoder.

[Anonymous]

How do you wire a turnout?

I was amazed by how COMPLICATED such a simple thing as a turnout was. The main reason is there are so many different kinds of turnouts and options.

The simplist is an Atlas turnout that has all legs hot at all times (aka NON power routing), just wire it up like a piece of track and you are done. All three legs will be hot all the time.

But you also have other options. They include issues such as insulated frogs, metal frogs, plastic frogs, power routing, non-power routing, insulated powered frogs, non-insulated powered frogs, jumpers on the bottom of the switch and no jumpers on the bottom, sprung points, non-sprung points, points with jumper wires, turnouts with manual throws, turnouts without manual throws, turnouts with electric throws, turnouts without electric throws, throws with switches to power the frogs, throws without switches to power the frogs, and some I have forgotten. And many combinations a permutations of the above options. Whew!

NO WONDER PEOPLE ARE CONFUSED!

Fortunately you don't have to understand ALL the above. Keep life simple. If you can stand the Atlas non-prototypical throws use Atlas snap turnouts either manual or electric.

If you can't stand the Atlas non-prototypical throws use Peco Insulfrogs.

If you absolutely must have low speed steam NOT stalling on your turnouts, bite the bullet and use Peco Electrofrogs (or some other version of metal frog turnout) and learn how to wire them up and cut the gaps.

The big advantage of Peco is they are manual throw ready right out of the box, no need to add a manual throw. But Pecos will require a power connecton at just about every turnout, and the Electrofrogs require cutting gaps.

I also noticed some Micro Engineering turnouts that have powered metal INSULATED frogs which is how I think a turnout SHOULD be work. It didn't have the sprung points though....

[claymore1977]

Heres some pics from my site... might help:

 

[oleirish]

  I have done this before,I use an DPDT switch right in my control pannel.I have an E-Z command DCC,And Two loco's at the present W/DCC in them.I just through the switch an turn all the blocks on.It works fine!

JIM

[G Paine]

I am working on a new layout and have a number of locomotives that I have not converted to DCC yet, so I have the same problem as FloridaPanhandler.

I have wired the layout for DCC and have kept it as one circuit with no boosters or Powershields (circuit breakers). I have a DC power pack installed near my DCC command station. The outputs from both systems go to a DPDT toggle switch with the center contacts of the swutch going to the rails. Throwing the switch one was selects conventional DC and the other way DCC.

As long as I keep it simple and do not add any fancy DCC doodads everything should run OK. The eventual goal is to have most or all of my locomotives converted and get rid fo the power pack. That may take a couple of years unless I win the lottery.

[cchnguage]

FloridaPanhandle,

If you want to have signals you will need blocks for the signals. I would suggest setting these up early. Just run the leads from the blocks to the main bus until such time you are ready to put in the block detectors.

I am not sure if you know how to wire DCC. If not, just run a main buss under the table and attach the drops from the rails to the buss. Then just attach the buss to the DC power pack.

Craig

[wjstix]

Well, converting my layout from DC to DCC meant taking the two wires going to the DC power pack off, and connecting them to my Digitrax Zephyr. No other wiring changes were needed!! If your turnouts work good in DC they'll work good in DCC. If not, DCC isn't a 'magic bullet' that will fix 'em.

BTW right now the price of a good DC power pack isn't much less than the price of a DCC system like the Zephyr or an MRC system.  

[ukrailroader]

Hi,

I've just wired a layout to use both DC and DCC control. It only needed a simple control panel for the switched sections. I connected the switchable sections to the appropriate bus wire so that they can be isolated in DC mode and just switch them all to 'on' for DCC mode.

I HAVE NEVER RE-WIRED A PECO TURNOUT FOR DCC AND HAVE NEVER HAD ANY PROBLEMS. I USE THEM STRAIGHT FROM THE BOX. INSULFROG TURNOUTS DO NOT NEED INSULATING AT THE FROG BUT ELECTROFROG ONES DO.

ukrailroader

 

[bearman]

It's my understanding that power blocks are not necessary for DCC, except for a reverse loop. They are recommended so that a short will not shut down the whole layout. It is also my understanding that, notwithstanding the fact that DC is more forgiving than DCC when it comes to wiring, if a layout runs under DC then there should be no problems with DCC.

[southernman]

gonna post this question here because its very relevant

I too am a newbie with minimal wiring knowledge, I usually just trial-and-error my way through it, which I'm doing now.

 QUESTION - to insulate or not to insulate for feeders? 

I am currently building 1 module which is a sort of dogbone with an extra piece of mainline encircling it, and 2 spurs, one of which branches into a 3 track coal mine (using Walthers New River), its a classic John Armstrong track plan slightly modified, about 24 feet of track.

Now, having never wired a complex layout, experimentation has shown me a way to wire 4 feeders back into the main bus to get the whole track plan 'live' (using peco insulfrogs code 80).  will this work?  Will it violate the rule of thumb for feeders every 10 feet, thereby giving me too high a voltage?  Do I need to 'block' it up using insulation?  Or is there special wiring for the insulfrogs?

Whats best?

MANY thanks guys for any help, hope I didnt hijack the thread:)

Lee

[Anonymous]

There is no special wiring needed for Insulfrogs. No need to cut gaps except in reverse loops. You will need to drop a feeder approximately one feeder per switch. The Insulfrogs I have seen are power routing, if you have non-power routing Insulfrogs then things are different, you wont need as many power drops. I ran a power pair bus the whole length of my benchwork and connected feeders with the clamp on type connectors (Posilocks and/or suitcase). No need for soldering the feeders to the bus that way. Also, I think the rail joiners with wires already attached are the cats, just paint one wire red or solder on a red wire so you have a red and black pair. Otherwise you will go nuts.

 Good luck!

[perisher]

A very good idea for wiring feeders to each rail can be found in the nce powercab manual.It basically says get an old goods wagon and paint or mark the colors of the bus wires or feeder wires on either side,wheel to any part of your layout and no matter what part of the track you are wiring you can't make a mistake.Hope this helps

[BriansGrandy]

My layout is the Grand Trunk Eastern from one of the Atlas layout books and was originally wired for DC, straight out of the book.  It has a 3 stall roundhouse and 2 additional stalls on the Atlas turntable.  I added additional blocks for the two spurs and used two MRC Tech 4 powerpacks.  All turnouts are Atlas. I did have the foresight to use 18 gauge wire for the runs from the block back to the selectors after using standard Atlas terminal joiners for the track feeders.  I did add 2 additional feeders to two of the longer blocks trying to have a power feed every 3-4 feet.  I ended up with 4 Atlas Selectors and one Controller.  The Controller was connected to the 2 Tech 4 powerpacks.  I bought a Digitrax Zephyr system a year ago and simply swapped the connections from the Tech 4's to the connections on the Zephyr.  I turned all Selectors on and have never looked back. I found a use for the Tech 4's by using them as jump throttles until I could afford a DT400. I probably have too much wiring for DCC; however, I firmly believe in the old axiom: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".  

[LNEFAN]

Follow the enclosed link for the most clear explanation of wiring for Peco turnouts:

http://www.loystoys.com/peco/about-electrofrog.html