SpaceMouse wrote:You can see in the prototype that there was no runaround and the track that was provided serviced both the hardware store (which was also building supplies) and the grocery distributor. The way they did it must have been to switch some industries in one direction, run clear around the quarter mile run around, then switch the other direction.
IRONROOSTER wrote: Well, you certainly are stuffing a lot in. A couple of things about your sliding staging (traverser). <snip> It appears that you are going to have to use tracks on the traverser for switching, so I would eliminate tracks 4, 5, and 6 and replace them with scenery and view block so that tracks 7 through 14 are hidden. The hidden tracks would be your staging. <snip>Operations would start by pulling out the traverser so that a train can enter the scene to the right. Once clear the traverser is pushed back so that the track and scenery at the front are now in play and you have the full 8 feet for operations. When that train is ready to leave it is moved to the right and the traverser pulled out to its destination track.
Well, you certainly are stuffing a lot in. A couple of things about your sliding staging (traverser). <snip>
It appears that you are going to have to use tracks on the traverser for switching, so I would eliminate tracks 4, 5, and 6 and replace them with scenery and view block so that tracks 7 through 14 are hidden. The hidden tracks would be your staging. <snip>
Operations would start by pulling out the traverser so that a train can enter the scene to the right. Once clear the traverser is pushed back so that the track and scenery at the front are now in play and you have the full 8 feet for operations. When that train is ready to leave it is moved to the right and the traverser pulled out to its destination track.
That is an idea that is way too good to leave alone!
Unless Paul objects, I am going to try to incorporate that idea in my own 210 cm (82") shelf layout, which also has a 115 cm (45") traverser for staging.
Splitting the traverser into a visible scenery extention with hidden staging tracks behind the scenery makes the modelled part of the layout 1.5 times as long, at the cost of only two staging tracks.
I'd better get back to the drawing board - I have to try out few changes here, too!
And Chip - very neat layout! The coal trestle is the only thing that looks like it might get a little on the steep side. Then again - nothing says that the trestle has to go _up_ - you could equally well have the track stay level (on a "bridge") while terrain _under_ the trestle go down enough to fit a truck under the trestle- ie a dip/ditch or some such thing.
Smile, Stein
SpaceMouse wrote: exPalaceDog wrote: Change the "auto" unloading platfrom to warp around the end of the track giving an "end" unloading platform. That would provide a place to unload items such as farm machinery, construction equipment, and heavier trucks such as coal dump trucks.All above the above are provided for by the layout in other ways with the exception of the coal trucks. The real traffic for this branch are the huge coal mines in the area. There is so much traffic that three railroads work the area, the Buffalo, Rochester, & Pittsburgh (with B & O having trackage rights), the Cambridge and Indiana, once known for being the richest small railroad in the world because they bought and leased coal cars to the rest of the nation, and the PRR. They would have unloaded the trucks and equipment right at the mines. These mine are/were huge.
exPalaceDog wrote: Change the "auto" unloading platfrom to warp around the end of the track giving an "end" unloading platform. That would provide a place to unload items such as farm machinery, construction equipment, and heavier trucks such as coal dump trucks.
Change the "auto" unloading platfrom to warp around the end of the track giving an "end" unloading platform. That would provide a place to unload items such as farm machinery, construction equipment, and heavier trucks such as coal dump trucks.
All above the above are provided for by the layout in other ways with the exception of the coal trucks. The real traffic for this branch are the huge coal mines in the area. There is so much traffic that three railroads work the area, the Buffalo, Rochester, & Pittsburgh (with B & O having trackage rights), the Cambridge and Indiana, once known for being the richest small railroad in the world because they bought and leased coal cars to the rest of the nation, and the PRR. They would have unloaded the trucks and equipment right at the mines. These mine are/were huge.
The idea the Dog was thinking of was delivery of new coal trucks to a truck dealership.
SpaceMouse wrote: exPalaceDog wrote: Sell the freight station to the local beer distributor to provide a home for some brewery reefers.The Indiana Brewery was about 5 blocks south. I'll have the refers dropped off with the grain, etc. When the local switcher goes out.
exPalaceDog wrote: Sell the freight station to the local beer distributor to provide a home for some brewery reefers.
Sell the freight station to the local beer distributor to provide a home for some brewery reefers.
The Indiana Brewery was about 5 blocks south. I'll have the refers dropped off with the grain, etc. When the local switcher goes out.
The reason the Old Dog suggested the beer distributor is that it could receive beer reefers from any brewery. A brewery would normally by limited to shipping it's own brands limiting the beer reefers that could be used.
Have fun
exPalaceDog wrote: The reason the Old Dog suggested the beer distributor is that it could receive beer reefers from any brewery. A brewery would normally by limited to shipping it's own brands limiting the beer reefers that could be used.Have fun
I get you. They can still be handled by the freight depot. In PA, still you have to get your beer form a distributor. State fricking law.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
tomkat-13 wrote:Chip it looks great!...I'm glad the Sanborn Maps helped you out. As you research takes you closer to completion of the layout most of the trackage placement will become clear. We all know that the PRR would not put any track down if was not needed. The big challenge will be to find out what each building looked like. Are any still standing today? I find that looking on ebay sometimes you can find postcards of the depot that show surrounding buildings. Also local historical societies are a big help. Well good luck with the railroad.....tkat
I went to the historical society and they said that 1950 was too recent for them. If I would have wanted 1800's it would have been another story. Some of the buildings are standing, but for the most part, they leveled the square and built a courthouse in 1964. Stewart's hardware was also demolished as well as Buchanan's Grocery. There are actually fewer standing that were demoed. I was told, by the historical society to ask a guy who I knew from my old club. So I may have a way to go. Fortunately, Stewart's hardware, because of Jimmy has been photoed a lot.
Space Mouse,
It's sad they demolished Stewarts Hardware. According to the book I read on him, it was opened in 1853.
It was his parents and grandparents hope he would eventually take it over.
But that wasn't to be.
In the book is a picture of him in uniform in the store.
If yourself or anyone is interested in reading a really good book on him, get a copy of "JIMMY STEWART BOMBER PILOT"
Written by Starr Smith.
Not just a story about an actor, but an exceptional American, and an exceptional man.
There's even a story about a train ride in the book.
Happy MRRing
TheK4Kid
SpaceMouse wrote: exPalaceDog wrote: The reason the Old Dog suggested the beer distributor is that it could receive beer reefers from any brewery. A brewery would normally by limited to shipping it's own brands limiting the beer reefers that could be used.Have funI get you. They can still be handled by the freight depot. In PA, still you have to get your beer form a distributor. State fricking law.
To see what the Old Dog is thinking, look here
http://www.showmelines.com/
And maybe here
http://www.showcaseline.com/Reefers/Billboard/woodenreefers_in_stock.html
"In PA, still you have to get your beer form a distributor. State fricking law."
Precisely the point! State law requires that beer be sold through wholesalers.
BTW, how to kill an afternoon in PA in the early 1960's. At that time the local beer distributors would delivery beer by the case to your home. It some happend that one of the local Civics teacher who was also head of the Women's Temperance Leaque lived next door to a drug store. In them days, drug store normally included a soda fountain. By sitting in a certain booth one could view the teacher's front door from the drug store. Some of my friends used to like to go, order a milk shake, slip over to the pay phone, order a case of beer deliveried next door, drink the shake slowly, and watch the "fun" when the beer delivery man showed up.
SpaceMouse wrote: I went to the historical society and they said that 1950 was too recent for them.
I went to the historical society and they said that 1950 was too recent for them.
Our H.S./library had a lot of stuff like old newspaper clippings, altases, commercial directories, town/county centennial books, industrial PR, stuff like that. Some of the old directories and industrial PR were good because it would have streetside photos of businesses from ads and whatnot. Good ideas of what was sold and by who. (For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)
Newspapers frequently published directories or flyers showing businesses - maybe they could help, or the Chamber of Commerce?
KL
Your modeling skills have improved greatly young Skywalker (Spacemouser).
But you know little of the power of the darkside (PRR)
Let me explain, I've spent half of my life playing with trains, the rest i just wasted.
I used to model BN circa 1980, my youth watching trains was life at its best.
Before I discovered girls, cars, beer, & lifes other temptations.
Fast fwd a few years, I join a club and see a BLI sound loco.....I must have it.
To make a long story short; I have 5 BLI steam engines, a fleet of passenger cars and
more books / knowledge about the Pennsyvania RR. than my beloved BN. I have even made
two trips to Horseshoe curve, Altoona.....WOW. My current layout is not BN and features no
green SD40-2's.
Anyway back to the original subject. The PRR is a fascinating prototype but be aware for being
the STANDARD railroad, it is anything but. The more you learn, the more you know what you
did wrong.....ignorance is bliss, as far as the PRR is concerned.
Kurt_Laughlin wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: I went to the historical society and they said that 1950 was too recent for them. Our H.S./library had a lot of stuff like old newspaper clippings, altases, commercial directories, town/county centennial books, industrial PR, stuff like that. Some of the old directories and industrial PR were good because it would have streetside photos of businesses from ads and whatnot. Good ideas of what was sold and by who. (For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)Newspapers frequently published directories or flyers showing businesses - maybe they could help, or the Chamber of Commerce?KL
Oil was considered a luxury at the time, If you ever see basements built before 1960 and earlier, you might find signs of coal bunkers etc inside the actual foundation of the basement. We had oil in ours but coal would not have been too difficult given the right equiptment.
Gas was also in existance, particularly near older cities like Baltimore.
Safety Valve wrote: Kurt_Laughlin wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: I went to the historical society and they said that 1950 was too recent for them. Our H.S./library had a lot of stuff like old newspaper clippings, altases, commercial directories, town/county centennial books, industrial PR, stuff like that. Some of the old directories and industrial PR were good because it would have streetside photos of businesses from ads and whatnot. Good ideas of what was sold and by who. (For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)Newspapers frequently published directories or flyers showing businesses - maybe they could help, or the Chamber of Commerce?KLOil was considered a luxury at the time, If you ever see basements built before 1960 and earlier, you might find signs of coal bunkers etc inside the actual foundation of the basement. We had oil in ours but coal would not have been too difficult given the right equiptment.Gas was also in existance, particularly near older cities like Baltimore.
Be careful here. Manufactured gas would have been available in the late 1800's and early 1900's, but it was mainly used for lighting, not heating. Natural gas would have become available much later, say the 1940's.
If you look a round on the old Sanborne maps say for around 1910, the Old Dog would guess that you will find a gas works near Indiana. They used to take "fat" coal and heat it to release they gas. While coke was a by-product, it was not suitable for metal making. Coal tar was also a by-product which could be distilled to get creosote. The gas was expensive and limited in heat value, hence hot suitable for heating. The invention of the "mantel" like is now used in gasoline lanterns increased the light output. The gas works was usually a seperate utility not owned by an oil company. That is way the gasholders that you see in your LHS lettered for oil companies are something of a joke. Interesting structures, but they should be lettered for the local gas company.
exPalaceDog wrote: Safety Valve wrote: Kurt_Laughlin wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: I went to the historical society and they said that 1950 was too recent for them. Our H.S./library had a lot of stuff like old newspaper clippings, altases, commercial directories, town/county centennial books, industrial PR, stuff like that. Some of the old directories and industrial PR were good because it would have streetside photos of businesses from ads and whatnot. Good ideas of what was sold and by who. (For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)Newspapers frequently published directories or flyers showing businesses - maybe they could help, or the Chamber of Commerce?KLOil was considered a luxury at the time, If you ever see basements built before 1960 and earlier, you might find signs of coal bunkers etc inside the actual foundation of the basement. We had oil in ours but coal would not have been too difficult given the right equiptment.Gas was also in existance, particularly near older cities like Baltimore.Be careful here. Manufactured gas would have been available in the late 1800's and early 1900's, but it was mainly used for lighting, not heating. Natural gas would have become available much later, say the 1940's.Have fun
Im trying to be, I do recall street lights run by gas in the WW1 era from history books. In fact I think it was shipping that changed over from Coal to Oil and then the homes did the same. Only later did electricity or gas (Or solar etc) come into play for heating.
Safety Valve wrote: Kurt_Laughlin wrote: (For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)Oil was considered a luxury at the time, If you ever see basements built before 1960 and earlier, you might find signs of coal bunkers etc inside the actual foundation of the basement. We had oil in ours but coal would not have been too difficult given the right equiptment.Gas was also in existance, particularly near older cities like Baltimore.
Kurt_Laughlin wrote: (For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)
(For example, I found coal was still pretty common for home heating in 1961. I would've thought in towns it would be nearly supplanted by gas or oil by then.)
Our house was built in 1939 and had coal up until about 1963 according to my Dad, when we switched to gas.
Looking at the ads for late '50s/early '60s Beaver Falls, there looked to be about as many coal dealers as oil dealers in the directories, but gas was well in place at the time. I would've thought there'd be almost no coal by then. In any case, there was enough to warrant selling it on my layout!
My grandparents lived out in a relatively rural area and had oil heat and LP gas for cooking.
Dog,
I gave my research to a member of my old club who wanted to add an Indiana Branch to the club layout. It turns out that he was born in 1938 and played in the streets around the railroad in Indiana. I thought he had moved here much later in life as he was a professor at IUP.
The automobile unloading dock was the center track like you suggested and it was an end unloading ramp.
He also said the coal was only the very end of the trestle and the front end of that spur was used to offload paper to the Indiana Gazette.
He confirms that trains did indeed back in, but there was not a dedicated switcher. The road engines did all the switching. I figure, I'll let my S1s do the work anyway. There were other little things like what building did what and where they stashed the cabin. But he was a wealth of info. I'm going to cash in on that resource.
Now if I can only get some pictures.
Manufactured gas, also known as Producer Gas, is made by passing steam through ovens filled with burning coke. It starts with fresh air being blown into the coke. When the coke is red hot, the air is switched off and steam is passed through the bulk which yields a mixture of hydrogen, CO, and CO2. This gas was collected in inverted (open bottomed) bells or drums that were immersed in pools of water. As the gas collected in the drums, the drums rose out of the water, and as the gas was used up, the drums fell, thus providing a steady pressure to the distrubution system.
Homes used the gas for lighting and for cooking. The expression "taking the gas" was the term for the popular form of suicide during those times. I'll leave the idea up to your imagination.
This is a bit of an aside, but I found the idea interesting.
When the Old Dog saw the farmer equipment deater, it suspected there would be an end loading ramp around somewhere to unload farm machinery
If the local auto dealers were served, there would be a side unloading ramp around somewhere.