I guess I don't have a good understanding of what you envision your operation will be. Maybe if you described what you see the trains doing. For example, when you say you are going to ice reefers, what exactly do you mean? Are you planning to ice one or two reefers and then spot them for loading or are you planning to stop a solid reefer train and top off the ice enroute or are you planning to set out reefers from trains to be iced enroute or are you planning to stop through freights and top off the reefers in the train enroute? Makes a big difference on the facility. If you are planning to ice cars in a train then you need 2 train lengths of room on the siding with the ice dock near the center so you can get to any car in the train. If you have a train going through Train City towards Rock Ridge that has the reefer next to the caboose you will block both the main and the siding to spot the reefer. If you put the siding on the back side of the main and put the ice dock in the center of the siding you now can stop a train and ice reefers all day long without blocking anything. That eliminates one double slip switch too. It would be worth the room to move the main and current siding 2 inches forward, even if that meant losing 2 in on every yard track, in order to put a second siding for the ice dock behind the main.All the crossovers in the back track is totally unnecessary and wastes money. If you gotta have crossovers, put a pair in the center facing in opposite directions, then lose the ones near the ends. Losing the one closest to the main also eliminates a double slip switch in the lead. Two down. It appears the Train City depot is buried in the yard next to the cattle pens (you really know how to attract the public to ride your trains<G>). So every passenger train will have to pull or shove into the yard, move any cars spotted at the stock pens, make its station stop, respot the cattle cars, then shove or pull back out to the main. Since you've move the ice dock behind the main that frees up that end of the siding to reverse the Bear Wiz spur and run it off the current siding into a new location in the city. That lets the station move to the area near the current Bear Wiz switch. The current station track now becomes a "coach yard" to hold a passenger train between runs or just becomes a stock track and a team track.What you are actually doing is using the leads as your "arrival" and "departure" tracks. Typically a model railroad yard has the A/D tracks along side the class yard, you have placed them end to end. Not that that is a problem you just have to recognize it and anticipate it in your design.Here are some suggestions.Try flopping the design from right to left. Try rotating the design 90 degrees so the yard runs perpendicular to the stairs and Rock Ridge is against the right wall (that would require flopping Rock Ridge over so it would be on the interior.) That might left the mains pierce the wall toward the bottom end of the helix, maybe with a "wye" near the yard.
Dave H.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Chip, I liked the station against the noth wall better. Would you be willing to move the icing platform to the wall behind the yard, this would eliminate a couple turnouts there that are difficult to reach.
You seem to have more classification tracks than you need. Can you make the 2nd track in from the wall(yard side) an escape track, and the next track in would be your arrival track?
The next three tracks would be clas tracks and a caboose track at the end. You could use any clas track as a departure track as if you sort the incoming cars ASAP then each track would have a train ready most of the time.
In the curve you would still have at least two tracks, mainline and yard lead. You would be surprised as to haw little it takes to fill that drill track up when classifying trains.
Another thought would to put the turntable and roundhouse against the wall. Then the arriving locos would escape adjascent the service tracks, and you would have more linier space for the service tracks. This would free up the front of the layout for industries. You could then put a caboose track along the ladder track and serve industries off the track closest the edge.
If I remember correctly you will be running short trains, correct? If so then you don't need but 2 or 3 clas tracks and they don't have to be super long.
John
dehusman wrote: I guess I don't have a good understanding of what you envision your operation will be. Maybe if you described what you see the trains doing.
I guess I don't have a good understanding of what you envision your operation will be. Maybe if you described what you see the trains doing.
On the contrary, your questions are a big help. It makes me think things through. If my answers to your questions don't do it, I'll describe a typical train later.
For example, when you say you are going to ice reefers, what exactly do you mean? Are you planning to ice one or two reefers and then spot them for loading or are you planning to stop a solid reefer train and top off the ice enroute or are you planning to set out reefers from trains to be iced enroute or are you planning to stop through freights and top off the reefers in the train enroute? Makes a big difference on the facility. If you are planning to ice cars in a train then you need 2 train lengths of room on the siding with the ice dock near the center so you can get to any car in the train. If you have a train going through Train City towards Rock Ridge that has the reefer next to the caboose you will block both the main and the siding to spot the reefer. If you put the siding on the back side of the main and put the ice dock in the center of the siding you now can stop a train and ice reefers all day long without blocking anything. That eliminates one double slip switch too. It would be worth the room to move the main and current siding 2 inches forward, even if that meant losing 2 in on every yard track, in order to put a second siding for the ice dock behind the main.
I imagined two or three refers on a mixed freight getting topped off. I did not imagine produce or meat originating from Train City, but it is not out of the question. I suggest adding another track in an earlier post, so you don have to talk me into this one. That double slip was on it's last legs anyway, It was supposed to make it easier for the engine to escape, but it really didn't serve that function well.
All the crossovers in the back track is totally unnecessary and wastes money. If you gotta have crossovers, put a pair in the center facing in opposite directions, then lose the ones near the ends. Losing the one closest to the main also eliminates a double slip switch in the lead. Two down.
Here is the section on I worked on to clarify for you. The two tracks with all those crossovers serve 11 industries. They were not drawn in previous versions, just refereed to.
I hate the way the drawings come out on here. At any rate, the crossovers mean that I don't have to pull 9 cars to switch 1 industry at the bottom.
It appears the Train City depot is buried in the yard next to the cattle pens (you really know how to attract the public to ride your trains<G>). So every passenger train will have to pull or shove into the yard, move any cars spotted at the stock pens, make its station stop, respot the cattle cars, then shove or pull back out to the main.
The station has always been above the main in the center, near the main section of town (represented by false fronts and backdrop). On one side of the cattle pens is the foundry (what I think you took for the station) and on the other side is the lumber yard. You are showing great patience with me if you thought the station was in the yard.
Since you've move the ice dock behind the main that frees up that end of the siding to reverse the Bear Wiz spur and run it off the current siding into a new location in the city. That lets the station move to the area near the current Bear Wiz switch. The current station track now becomes a "coach yard" to hold a passenger train between runs or just becomes a stock track and a team track.
I'll think about this. The Bear Wiz complex is a bit bigger than the main building shown. There is a warehouse that will sit on the second track. There is an office structure off the back of the building. There is a corral and stable for the delivery horses. This is the largest industrial complex on the layout when you count all this. The foundry building will be a little bigger, but in area occupied the brewery is the largest.
What you are actually doing is using the leads as your "arrival" and "departure" tracks. Typically a model railroad yard has the A/D tracks along side the class yard, you have placed them end to end. Not that that is a problem you just have to recognize it and anticipate it in your design.
Yes and no. The siding is what I am really calling the A/D track, but in reality I am trying to clear it quickly. The track into the industrial siding is not really needed to switch the industries, so I am stripping the cab and either pushing or pulling the train into that siding. But that is only if the entire train is being broken down. If only a car or two is being set out, that is where they will go. If there is just a power change it will sit on the A/D track.
I'm not using the industry lead track to build trains. Those will be set out on the A/D track. The shorter spur is a caboose track. It is a little long in the above drawing.
Here are some suggestions.Try flopping the design from right to left. Try rotating the design 90 degrees so the yard runs perpendicular to the stairs and Rock Ridge is against the right wall (that would require flopping Rock Ridge over so it would be on the interior.) That might left the mains pierce the wall toward the bottom end of the helix, maybe with a "wye" near the yard.Dave H.
There is a couple years work in the town of Rock Ridge, it is detailed and many of the structures are scratched or bashed to fit. Flopping it, would mean starting over. The only place I could get the section located was on the peninsula. The layout was literally designed around it.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
spidge wrote: Chip, I liked the station against the noth wall better. Would you be willing to move the icing platform to the wall behind the yard, this would eliminate a couple turnouts there that are difficult to reach.You seem to have more classification tracks than you need. Can you make the 2nd track in from the wall(yard side) an escape track, and the next track in would be your arrival track?The next three tracks would be clas tracks and a caboose track at the end. You could use any clas track as a departure track as if you sort the incoming cars ASAP then each track would have a train ready most of the time.In the curve you would still have at least two tracks, mainline and yard lead. You would be surprised as to haw little it takes to fill that drill track up when classifying trains.Another thought would to put the turntable and roundhouse against the wall. Then the arriving locos would escape adjascent the service tracks, and you would have more linier space for the service tracks. This would free up the front of the layout for industries. You could then put a caboose track along the ladder track and serve industries off the track closest the edge.If I remember correctly you will be running short trains, correct? If so then you don't need but 2 or 3 clas tracks and they don't have to be super long.
Thanks Spidge. I think I answered all your concerns in the post to Dave. The far turnouts in the industry tracks will be hand throws on the facia (via piano wire), but coupling and uncoupling might be an issue. Spotting cars at the industries might be a PIA, but every train will have an engine that rotates out of service so there will be less action back there. I agree that the yards might be long--but when Train City becomes the tight spot in the basement layout, they might be a help. Some trains might be double-headed and may therefore run up to 12 cars in length. However, they may not be end of destination for Train City.
I got talked out of/talked myself out of under the layout staging. I remember how much I hated crawling under the layout on my old layout and to have all those turnouts under there...
This solution reduces the number of trains I can stage fro 12 to 8, but brings them out in the open.
In this version, I have the extra siding, but it cannot be an A/D track because it does not connect with the yard.
That works.
Just so I am clear about your operations at right, at RR, some trains will back all the way, drop or pick, and then move forward back to the rest of the layout? And some trains will depart Train City or the yard and do (something) at Rock Ridge, and then reverse all the way back?
selector wrote: That works.Just so I am clear about your operations at right, at RR, some trains will back all the way, drop or pick, and then move forward back to the rest of the layout? And some trains will depart Train City or the yard and do (something) at Rock Ridge, and then reverse all the way back?
What Spidge said.
I can envision a turn where empties are brought to the mine and ore cars are brought to Train City. Although I don't have plans for a mill in TC. I do in Virginia City in the future. It wouldn't so much back down as head the train with the engine in reverse.
Ah, I see it now. Thanks, guys. I must have been tired when I first looked at the diagram because I concluded that the left side triple loop was all on one level...don't know why, but it explains the bone-headed question.
So, I am happier, and I think it really does work.