I'm about to start work on my new HO layout, this time I was entertaining the idea of using the Woodland Scenics Foambed instead of the cork I've always used in the past.
My question is regarding yards and other large areas. In the past I've used cork sheets for these areas, but with the foambed, what do you use? Can I still use cork, i.e. is the height the same? My other thought was maybe cardboard broken up from the plethora of boxes we have left over from Christmas. :)
Thanks in advance!
Jason
Modeling the fictional B&M Dowe, NH branch in the early 50's.
WS has the foam available in sheets. THisis what I used in my yard. I put my yard and siings on the N scale roadbed to drop it down below the main line, but the sheet materials are available in all the sizes the WS makes (N, HO, and O). To get a shoulder around the outside perimeter of my yard i split some of the N scale sections and butted them around the outside of the yard, much as you would do with cork. I really like this stuff, especially using the 24 foot rolls for long straight stretches - fewer seams than with 3' sections of cork.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
One observation is that if a little bit of cork roadbed shows through the ballast it is not too troubling, but if the solid black of the WS roadbed shows through the ballast it is immediately noticable. That is no reason to go one way or the other, just an observation.
The WS foam roadbed is easy to cut with a sissors which is another advantage to it. On the other hand the cork sheets lay naturally flat while the WS foam curls at the edges.
Dave Nelson
dknelson wrote:One observation is that if a little bit of cork roadbed shows through the ballast it is not too troubling, but if the solid black of the WS roadbed shows through the ballast it is immediately noticable. That is no reason to go one way or the other, just an observation. The WS foam roadbed is easy to cut with a sissors which is another advantage to it. On the other hand the cork sheets lay naturally flat while the WS foam curls at the edges. Dave Nelson
Depends...if you have cinders or grey ballast it's not goning to be a problem :)
I think the WS foam best is superior to cork when it comes to laying curves. I use cork for straightaway sections and turnouts.
A short while back I'd asked about the WS foam roadbed versus cork. I think it was both here and on the usenet newsgroup rec.models.railroads. Anyways, I purchased a couple of pieces to muck about with at home. Using the WS wasn't any faster than cork - you still have to split it when laying out curves. If you don't you'll get all kinds of puckering going on. Second, I found out it is possible to actually dent the roadbed when laying the roadbed and track such that it won't push back into shape. Third - cutting the foam to fit when laying turnouts. You'll need an extremely sharp knife blade or a pair of scissors to cut the stuff to fit. I'm not handlaying yet so I don't know about holding spikes for the foam versus cork, although I've never had spikes come loose in cork roadbed. As for sound transmission - who cares? You're not running the layout in a library.
Just my experiences - yours may well be different.
de N2MPU Jack
Proud NRA Life Member and supporter of the 2nd. Amendment
God, guns, and rock and roll!
Modeling the NYC/NYNH&H in HO and CPRail/D&H in N
There are two places on my layout where I had to split the WS roadbed. Fitting in a turnout,and the pieces i used to edge my yard area. I did not need to split it for any of my curves. And running almost the complete mainline loop with one box, no seams, made it go quite a bit faster than cork.
I disagree with having to split it. I did not, for either my 40", 32", 26" or 22" radius curves. No puckering either. Of course you have to properly place it down and put weights on it etc. I love using acrylic all purpose caulk with it. If you screw up, just pop in a putty knife, twist and you can remove it REALLY easy, saving like 95% of it.... try that with cork! (BTW, I use thin cork for the yards due to CHEAP price). I make a transition out of 2 pieces of the cork sanded down over 12 inches. I also sand 3-4 inches of the WS foam down (yes, you can do this). Seems to have worked fine for me... (still finishing parts of my yard).
Brian
ShadowNix wrote:I disagree with having to split it. I did not, for either my 40", 32", 26" or 22" radius curves. No puckering either. Of course you have to properly place it down and put weights on it etc. I love using acrylic all purpose caulk with it. If you screw up, just pop in a putty knife, twist and you can remove it REALLY easy, saving like 95% of it.... try that with cork! (BTW, I use thin cork for the yards due to CHEAP price). I make a transition out of 2 pieces of the cork sanded down over 12 inches. I also sand 3-4 inches of the WS foam down (yes, you can do this). Seems to have worked fine for me... (still finishing parts of my yard).Brian
I don't run curves that wide. My widest is 22" with a majority 18". I don't have room for a mainline as such in the space I have in HO. And you WILL get puckering on the inside of the curve where the roadbed slopes down to the base it's mounted on with 18" radius curves. No amount of weight will take care of that. There's no way I can see that one can get away without splitting the WS roadbed on tight curves. Actually, contact cement might work to diminish pucker, if the WS stuff had a peel-away backing of some sort.
Have a safe and Happy New Year all!
Good point, Jack. As stated above, my curves were a bit broader... I did note it was a bit harder laying the 22, but not too bad. Do you use transitions spirals/curves...that may help. Also, my 22" curve was only for 70 degrees or so. I have to say I love the WS foam (my first layout in 25+ years, so not that hard to use...)
ShadowNix wrote:Good point, Jack. As stated above, my curves were a bit broader... I did note it was a bit harder laying the 22, but not too bad. Do you use transitions spirals/curves...that may help. Also, my 22" curve was only for 70 degrees or so. I have to say I love the WS foam (my first layout in 25+ years, so not that hard to use...)Brian
Brian:
No, I don't use transition spirals/curves. The rolling stock I use isn't long enough to require them. I run mainly 40' to 50' cars; no 86' passenger cars. The WS foam sems to work out pokay for you, and I wish you well with it. It just isn't working out for me.
Mailman wrote: I'm not familar with this product; it is used in place of cork roadbed, is that correct ?
Correct. It's made of foam rubber, not cork, but is the same width and height (it's in 2' lengths and not 3' as cork is) so you can use both on your layout if you do so wish.
Metro Red Line wrote: Mailman wrote: I'm not familar with this product; it is used in place of cork roadbed, is that correct ? Correct. It's made of foam rubber, not cork, but is the same width and height (it's in 2' lengths and not 3' as cork is) so you can use both on your layout if you do so wish.
Also in 24-foot continuous rolls, and 12-inch by 24-inch sheets. The rolls, espeically, save lots of time and leftovers or small pieces.
Pondini wrote: Metro Red Line wrote: Mailman wrote: I'm not familar with this product; it is used in place of cork roadbed, is that correct ? Correct. It's made of foam rubber, not cork, but is the same width and height (it's in 2' lengths and not 3' as cork is) so you can use both on your layout if you do so wish. Also in 24-foot continuous rolls, and 12-inch by 24-inch sheets. The rolls, espeically, save lots of time and leftovers or small pieces.
Thanks guys, going to have to give this stuff a try.
Pondini wrote:Also in 24-foot continuous rolls, and 12-inch by 24-inch sheets. The rolls, espeically, save lots of time and leftovers or small pieces.
I think the sheets are horribly overpriced. For the price of one WS sheet I can get two of the same size roll of cork at Michael's Arts and Crafts.
That's true about almost EVERYTHING we use in model railroading. Inthe small quntities we buy things in at the hobby shop, they are FAR more expensive the the very same material at a craft store (or even the craft section of walmart)
There's more than just the 12x24 sheets, they also have wide stips (with no ballast shoulder) that come in multiple packs. I used one pack of the N scale strips for my yard area. I could have probably used a single large sheet and just cut the shape out, but the wide strips workedout just fine.
I have used the foambed. It is very easy to use on curves.If the track is glued to the foam it works fine. On the other hand when nailing track to the foam it can be hard to nail the track down to the same height because of the easy compressability of the foam - which obviously can cause dips and bumps if the nails are not driven all to the same depth when nailing the track.
dj
This is why we use caulk, not nails Nail cork too hard it has the same problem. Nail the track too hard on top of either one, or any other material, and you risk twisting the rails inward making the gauge too tight - and having lots of derailments.
I've actually had good luck with nails. Yes, you have to be careful not to overdo it (tap a track nail down until it just touches the tie, but it sure is easier to adjust or shim later on.
Once it's ballasted, of course, it's tighter, but you can still ease it loose to adjust it slightly and/or shim it a bit if necessary.
Great discussion!
I'm using both and not sure which I like better. For some reason, the cork remains ahead in my mind though. I've not done any balasting on the rubber, so I am abit leary of how it will work out. Great discussion!
joe-daddy wrote: Great discussion!I'm using both and not sure which I like better. For some reason, the cork remains ahead in my mind though. I've not done any balasting on the rubber, so I am abit leary of how it will work out. Great discussion!
Let us know how ballasting the rubber works; I'm interested too, thanks.
This has been a great discussion, and as I figured, lots of good points for both sides.
For my new layout I've decided to give the foam a try. I plan to use Liquid Nails for projects as my adhesive. I have several large cork sheets left over from my prior layout so I'll use those in my yard area.
Thanks everyone!
I thought we were talking about yards? May I sugest the latest issue in MR on Chuck
Hichcock's layout he does'nt use either cork or any other roadbed product in his yards.
Cannoli wrote: This has been a great discussion, and as I figured, lots of good points for both sides.For my new layout I've decided to give the foam a try. I plan to use Liquid Nails for projects as my adhesive. I have several large cork sheets left over from my prior layout so I'll use those in my yard area.Thanks everyone!
Don't use liquid nails, it's WAY too hard and permanent. I honestly can't stand that stuff even for its normal purpose - I had a heck of a time getting it to set up even in a free air situation. Use plain latex caulk, it's cheaper and does a better job. It's also easier to change things around if you want to modify anything.