Are you sure all of the rail joints are properly connected and that the track sections are securely snapped together? It sounds like the rail joiners are not making good contact.
I'm not familiar with Kato track, but you might be able to gently squeeze the rail joiners with a small pair of pliers so they fit tighter before putting the track together so you get better electrical contact.
I use Kato track and experience no such problems. What is your scale, power source, size of simple dog-bone? The most obvious would be the railjoiners are not snapped together. Have you tried running an additional power feed? Have you checked your feed wire connections to power supply and track to be sure they are tight?
Don
dw57.
Two things come to mind right away.
1) What size wire are you using to connect from the Power Pack to the track?
2) How long is the wire between the Power Pack and the track?
Blue Flamer.
Without the need for more direct action, suggest you take the feeder track and move it to the location of the apparent power loss and move the 9 inch straight to replace it. See if the power loss is still present or moves to the other side of the dog bone. How large a section of track does the power loss cover (straights and curves)?
I would take this question to the yahoo Kato group. I don't run DC but believe that a single feed to a 10 x 18 dogbone using only the wires provided by Kato may not be sufficient and will produce voltage loss. If I were faced with this, I would first create at least three blocks with insulated rails and use a terminal block with 14-16 gauge wire for my bus to the feeders. But then again, I can't simulate the situation and am not knowledgeable in DC operation. Wishing you the best and a Merry Christmas.
dw57 wrote:Thanks for everyones suggestions,but I am throwing 200$$ worth of Kato track in the trash. I will go back to the way I have done things in the past. Years ago I used Atlas flex track and Shinohara turnout with no problems. Dont ever buy Kato track. The easy way never works.
The easy way, as you put it, does work. I have an HO two mainline, small yard, and industry spurs all with Kato Unitrack and switches. No problems. As far as your statement of never buy Kato. it is ludicrous at best. It is hard to imagine you have $200 invested in the small dogbone you posted you have unless you paid full retail. If you did, another mistake. Sorry for your difficulties and disappointments but get over it as it is likely not the fault of the track. Your early capitulation and associated slam of a mfr. would tend to indicate a common occurence on these boards. Merry Christmas.
It really sounds like a simple problem. I'd guess there's one piece of track that isn't making a good connection.
Here's a simple test. Run another set of feeders to the far side of the layout. Nothing complicated, just two wires. You don't even have to connect them to the track, just wait until the train is in the area and then touch the wires to the correct rails. Chances are, the train speed will pick up since full power will reach that area.
If that solves the problem, install the extra feeders permanently and run your trains.
Kato is a respected manufacturer, their product is widely used successfully by thousands. But don't you think it's possible that ONE out of hundreds of thousands of track sections might have a problem?
If your reaction to future electrical problems is similar - and rest assured there will be more no matter what you use, your life as a model railroader will be quite frustrating. Chill out, think about the problem, and work out a solution.
Merry Christmas
Mike Tennent
Have you ever heard of "Jumper Wires?"
With a layout that big and the small wires you are using, you will need more than 2 wires going to your layout. Assuming you are NOT using the same color wire, just run 2 or 3 more pair of power wires to different spots on the layout. You don't need electrical blocks, but you do need the jumper wires to evenly distribute the power around your layout.
Kato is as good as it gets! It's just that simple!!! and if you can't make it work and want to toss it, then maybe you should look for another hobby....
One of my layouts is on a 36'X 80" door and I only have 2 wires connected and everything runs just fine. You didn't mention what brand of engines you have. If they are botchman, forget it and toss them into the trash instead of the quality Kato track. Your power pack will also make a difference. There again, you need to go with a QUALITY one from either Kato, MRC, instead of a elcheapo unit that is only fit to run a few lights.
cf7
You will need to run 2 wires to carry power to the far side of the layout directly from the power pack. This will be your "Power Bus"
Then hook one rail to each wire. That is your feeder.
That way the model locomotive feeding off your power pack on your side of the table will get all the way out to the far side and feed off THAT connection. Many railroaders put feeder wires every several feet so that the model locomotive thinks it is only a few feet from the power pack.
DONT throw away your KATO Unitrack. If you got 200 dollars tied up in the track keep it. Dont throw them away because UNITRACK is a respected and quality track manufactor. I have a few sections on my work bench and despite 20 degree temperature changes twice a day it does the job well.
Me thinks that the voltage is too puny kinder child for that much track. I recall really small crappy trainset power packs that fail to feed a engine with adequate power to maintain desired speed 6 feet away on the other side of the loop. (Probably why I'm "Driving" a 20 amp supply with a 8 amp command center today)
The best testamony I think of with the Kato Unitrack is the MR's recent issue that illlustrates the basic track layout made from Kato track, the .PDF files availible for download here on this website and finally the featured "Layout in one week" from the people that create the website, magazines and participate in the Hobby. If the KATO Track is so bad as to be thrown away, what the hell are they doing with it?
Think twice before you throw it away. If you did or will, then get out of trains and find something else that does not involve electricity. It's a bit harsh I know but there are reasons why our trains sometimes misbehave and there is so much knowledge and resources out there where someone before you had the same problem.
You are in a world where electricity makes a motor run. Feed the motor with stout voltage, good ampheres and robust connections that are capable of sharing the load across the whole layout with many other connectors.
I bet you will have the same power problems with ANY track. Not just Kato.
If you do end up throwing it away at least mail it to me or someone else who can use the stuff properly. I encourage you to read and learn as much as you can about power buses, feeders and associated abilities of the different power systems availible to the hobby.
DW57,
The advice you have been given if a bit harsh is good. It is possible if the power and speed slowly degrade the farther away you get from the transformer and feed wire that you simply have too long a run without additional feeders. In the old days we all used brass track that conducted electricty much better than the nickel silver stuff we use now. The problem with brass was that it tarnished easily and was prone to corrosion. The track we now use is less so, but the trade-off is conductivity.
Any decent locomotive with clean wheels will work on any clean track with enough juice. Before you give up in fustration, try getting a couple of extra feed tracks into the dogleg. If you don't feel like spending any more money, try soldering extra feed wires in the same polarity around the track spced equally. Even one extra set of feeders should tell you if the problem is the track or the locomotives. If the extra feeders make no difference and everything is clean and tight, check the locomotive more carefully again. It is unlikely, but you also may have a bad transformer, usually though they simply quit working all together. If your hobby shop is no help, find another that is. If there is no other lcoal hobby shop, get back on here. It would be a shame for you to give up with out giving it a try. Hope this helps and good luck. J.R.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I consider this problem solved I suppose we will have to discuss the best way to feed Kato Track. Do we do it with each rail section joiners every few feet off a 14 gauge wire bus set or do we drill a hole between each side and solder it to the rail itself?
Could the Kato Power pack not be capable of providing the required performance levels? I wonder if a big fat Tech 4 with 2 amps of power and lots of voltage will do better on that 8x10 foot layout.
At the club modular layout we are driving two main lines in a loop that are like ... 8 feet wide and roughly 20-30 feet to the side with 40+ iinch radius and TWO athearn desiels do well because we have feeders soldered to the track every 3 feet or so off the bus. The power? Well, they are older packs but with good set of Speaker Wire at 16 gauge they have not failed yet, not when the engines are like 30 feet away and pulling 14 feet of train.
I too recall the crappy brass rails of long ago. Thank god for Nickel Silver and Uber Power today. Cleanings are now occasional with all metal wheels and proper TLC. Not like the big pink eraser hell that literally lined the cork roadbed with rubber shavings that needed to be vacumed off prior to running one train with plastic wheels that will spread the remaining gunk around requiring yet another clean up. What a difference 30 years have made.
My O Scale trains WILL slow down on the other side of a very big loop, not a problem a second ternimal section gets snapped to that far end of the layout with wires doubling up onto that humming power pack, heat be damned.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote:It would be nice if everybody quit beating around the bush and said what the real problem is. Resistance! The farther the loco gets from the point of power, the more resistance there is in the distance of track that the power must travel. To counteract this, attach feeder wires every 6 feet. The loco will get full power no matter where it is on the layout. And even if you throw the Kato track out and do it all over with flex track, you're going to have the same problem! The laws of physics do not change! Attach feeders at every 6 feet and the problem will go away. Take it from someone who's been building layouts for 40+ years.
I can't argue with what you're saying. I've heard it many times and it makes sense.....use lot's of feeders!
But here is what I can't understand. With over 130' of HO Atlas True Track, basically 9" sections of Code 83 track, I have only 3 sets of feeders. I'm using Lenz 5 amp DCC and I have no loss of voltage anywhere on the layout.
Been running this for about a year with no problems. Why is this working when others are having problems and have to feed every 3' to 6' and some are soldering every joint??? In the beginning I was fully prepared to add more feeders but have just not had too.
Jerry
Rio Grande vs. Santa Fe.....the battle is over but the glory remains!
All,
I hate to shanghai this thread, but since we're talking Kato Unitrack.....
In order to save some time laying Atlas code 100 flex track and cork...I have been entertaining using this track instead.
1.) If you have purchased this, where (based on your experience) is the best price out there?
2.) If you have used it, would the manual turnouts be the best ones to get if you plan on using a tortoise?
3.) Has there been any luck using Kato sectionals and using another brand turnout (e.g. Peco)?
I am going with an 8' x 14' HO layout (in the classic 'G' shape) and powering it with a Digitrax Zephyr. Thanks!
Mike
jwils1 wrote: jeffrey-wimberly wrote:It would be nice if everybody quit beating around the bush and said what the real problem is. Resistance! The farther the loco gets from the point of power, the more resistance there is in the distance of track that the power must travel. To counteract this, attach feeder wires every 6 feet. The loco will get full power no matter where it is on the layout. And even if you throw the Kato track out and do it all over with flex track, you're going to have the same problem! The laws of physics do not change! Attach feeders at every 6 feet and the problem will go away. Take it from someone who's been building layouts for 40+ years.I can't argue with what you're saying. I've heard it many times and it makes sense.....use lot's of feeders!But here is what I can't understand. With over 130' of HO Atlas True Track, basically 9" sections of Code 83 track, I have only 3 sets of feeders. I'm using Lenz 5 amp DCC and I have no loss of voltage anywhere on the layout. Been running this for about a year with no problems. Why is this working when others are having problems and have to feed every 3' to 6' and some are soldering every joint??? In the beginning I was fully prepared to add more feeders but have just not had too.
jeffrey-wimberly wrote: jwils1 wrote: jeffrey-wimberly wrote:It would be nice if everybody quit beating around the bush and said what the real problem is. Resistance! The farther the loco gets from the point of power, the more resistance there is in the distance of track that the power must travel. To counteract this, attach feeder wires every 6 feet. The loco will get full power no matter where it is on the layout. And even if you throw the Kato track out and do it all over with flex track, you're going to have the same problem! The laws of physics do not change! Attach feeders at every 6 feet and the problem will go away. Take it from someone who's been building layouts for 40+ years.I can't argue with what you're saying. I've heard it many times and it makes sense.....use lot's of feeders!But here is what I can't understand. With over 130' of HO Atlas True Track, basically 9" sections of Code 83 track, I have only 3 sets of feeders. I'm using Lenz 5 amp DCC and I have no loss of voltage anywhere on the layout. Been running this for about a year with no problems. Why is this working when others are having problems and have to feed every 3' to 6' and some are soldering every joint??? In the beginning I was fully prepared to add more feeders but have just not had too. The 5 amps you're getting from the DCC is part of it. Another part is that you're using code 83 rail. There's less metal there to provide resistance. Also, you probably have your feeders at strategic locations. Are they spaced apart equally?
Yes it did work out that each set of feeders cover about a third of the layout so I guess that helps. Anyway, I'll go with it as long as it runs well. I can add more feeders later if needed.
Thanks for your reply.