WINLOK or Panel Pro?

[claycts]

What do I gain Spending $139.95?
Finaly ALMOST undertand Decoder Pro.
With the size of this thing I feel I need an automation program
New to this Hobby? This is what happens when you build TO BIG!![:I]

[rrinker]

Or RR & Co.

Winlok and RR & Co will probably be easier to set up - but PanelPro will be able to do anything they can, it just might take some scripting I like a bit of a challenge [:D]

I am helping out a local guy, he was going to use RR & Co for his layout but I have to show off PanelPro a bit. He's not much of a computer/electronics guy, but he makes some mighty fine models -scratchbuilt N scale Camelbacks that run as slow as the best HO locos, maybe even better. On Code 40 and Code 25 handlaid track! He's doing a turn of the century Reading layout

--Randy

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

Or RR & Co.

Winlok and RR & Co will probably be easier to set up - but PanelPro will be able to do anything they can, it just might take some scripting I like a bit of a challenge [:D]

I am helping out a local guy, he was going to use RR & Co for his layout but I have to show off PanelPro a bit. He's not much of a computer/electronics guy, but he makes some mighty fine models -scratchbuilt N scale Camelbacks that run as slow as the best HO locos, maybe even better. On Code 40 and Code 25 handlaid track! He's doing a turn of the century Reading layout

--Randy

Have you tried the RR & Co. ? Will search it out.
Getting a little tired of learning new tricks. [:D]
Waiting for the last of the turnouts for this phase. I do not think I am going to build the next phase. that would tie this into the New Jesey area. 10 years ago I would have tried to build the whole thing!! This will be more than I can run by myself without the computer running two trains and me the third.
Will take 10 operators to run this thing!
Take Care
Going back to wiring panels!!

[Anonymous]

WinLok is easier out-of-the-box, but the technology is very dated (though a completely new version is currently being tested). Panel Pro, while free, will consume a little more time to put it together, plus the need to install a Java run-time application on your PC. While this is more up-to-date, the Windows-runs-Java-runs-Panel PRo throttles it back to WinLok's performance level.

I bought WinLok when it was <$100. I don't think I'd spring for $120. The new version of WInLok will have sort of a pay-as-you-go pricing structure. Some like it, some don't.

[rrinker]

You make that sound painful. Who doesn't have a Java runtime installed? Use Firefox instead of IE? Need a java runtime for that, too. Winlok and RR&Co have runtimes for whatever their languages are as well, they just get installed by the installer if you don't already have them.

Java IS a memory hog, but it's not slow once loaded. Take a little while to start up JMRI on my P3 800MHz laptop with 256MB but once loaded there's no response time issues when clicking. I have a P3-500MHz with 512MB that loads it up right snappy. My main 2.7GHz desktop with 1GB RAM, near instantly.

--Randy

[Stevert]

Don't WinLok and RR&Co have free demo's you can download and try out? I'm a big fan of JMRI, but if you want to try before you buy the others, that may be an option. Then you can see for yourself what the differences are, and which one you like better.

Steve

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Stevert

Don't WinLok and RR&Co have free demo's you can download and try out? I'm a big fan of JMRI, but if you want to try before you buy the others, that may be an option. Then you can see for yourself what the differences are, and which one you like better.

Steve

Yes they do. RR&C is ONLY $249.95 and
WinLok is $139.95.
Using Panel pro is PRICELESS!
Going to run it on the main computer (2) 2.8 ghz processors 2 gigs ram should do the trick[:D]
I thought when I retired that I was done with MIS work!!!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

You make that sound painful. Who doesn't have a Java runtime installed? Use Firefox instead of IE? Need a java runtime for that, too. Winlok and RR&Co have runtimes for whatever their languages are as well, they just get installed by the installer if you don't already have them.

Java IS a memory hog, but it's not slow once loaded. Take a little while to start up JMRI on my P3 800MHz laptop with 256MB but once loaded there's no response time issues when clicking. I have a P3-500MHz with 512MB that loads it up right snappy. My main 2.7GHz desktop with 1GB RAM, near instantly.

--Randy

Quoting myself - "Panel Pro, while free, will consume a little more time to put it together, plus the need to install a Java run-time application on your PC." There's no mention of difficulty. There's no editorializing. I don't have a preference. I use both, WinLok on a XP P4 and JMRI on a Linux PIII.

Was I incorrect in my reply to the original question? No. We both understand the JRE issue. Does he? I don't know. The question was asked by someone else whose level of expertise is unknown.

My point was WinLok and JMRI are roughly equal in performance due to WinLok's 16-bit architecture and JMRI's running on top of an interpreter.

[claycts]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jsmaye

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

You make that sound painful. Who doesn't have a Java runtime installed? Use Firefox instead of IE? Need a java runtime for that, too. Winlok and RR&Co have runtimes for whatever their languages are as well, they just get installed by the installer if you don't already have them.

Java IS a memory hog, but it's not slow once loaded. Take a little while to start up JMRI on my P3 800MHz laptop with 256MB but once loaded there's no response time issues when clicking. I have a P3-500MHz with 512MB that loads it up right snappy. My main 2.7GHz desktop with 1GB RAM, near instantly.

--Randy

Quoting myself - "Panel Pro, while free, will consume a little more time to put it together, plus the need to install a Java run-time application on your PC." There's no mention of difficulty. There's no editorializing. I don't have a preference. I use both, WinLok on a XP P4 and JMRI on a Linux PIII.

Was I incorrect in my reply to the original question? No. We both understand the JRE issue. Does he? I don't know. The question was asked by someone else whose level of expertise is unknown.

My point was WinLok and JMRI are roughly equal in performance due to WinLok's 16-bit architecture and JMRI's running on top of an interpreter.

I understand very well both points, Randy has been a long time reply to my questions and I like the conterpoints made I will use Panel pro since I have all the toys already on the network. Have Decoder pro and it is the best since sliced bread[:D]
Our netwoek has 11 computers with (3) dedictaed for model railroad duty. We have a T1 coming into the house with a 1 gig backbone to all cat6 or fiber optic runs.
Just a little more than the average dial up system [:D]

[rrinker]

Got a spare room I can rent and move in you with George?

I thought I had a lot of goodies computer-wise but man.. plus you have a far better connection than I do. can't get anything in my neighborhood.


Don;t worry, running a railroad is not a compute-intensive task. Look at what Bruce CHubb ran the old SV layout with back when he first computerized. We were talking interpreted BASIC programs running through the main loop MAYBE 10x a second, often less - PLENTY fast enough to detect trains and operate signals. Maybe not if you run the trains at slot-car speeds, but for 'normal' operation it was more than fast enough. Between the newer computers being WAY faster and the software being faster, even if it is still interpreted in the case of Java, there really is no need to even think about it.

--Randy

[claycts]

Randy I am cheating [:D] Using my business main frame and T1!!
Looks like the big deal is to do the artwork for the CTC.
One thing that has me a little ticked is the cost of feedback decoders for the turnouts. You are ALMOST forced to buy the Hare units!
DS54 is $79.95 need (25) of them. Got (12) DS52's for JUST corssovers, slips and 3 way duty.
Comment from one of the folks that have seen the logic diagram was "'WHAT COMPUTER CLASS SHOULD THEY TAKE TO RUN THIS"
Oh yes we do NOW have a spre room and a spare houhse in S.C. and another in Florida.
I am building this in S.C.
Take Care
George P.
Glad the floods missed you!!

[rrinker]

Who needs feedback? Our little plastic people don't notice wrecks like real people do. Plus any feedback from a Tortoise is only assuming the linkage and the throwbar are fine - in other words, if the tortoise moves its armature, then the turnout itself moved. The ony way aroudn that is to put a microswitch linked to the throwbar for the feedback. ANd even then - if a pont rail becoems detached from the throwbar... yes, this is starting to get silly but that's kind of my point.

If you are intent on having feeback - look at a high volume contact sensing device like some of Hans's LocoIO boards, or *** Bronson's Tower Controller. One Tower Controller has 64 bits of input - 2 of them will handle a feedback contact from every one of your turnouts. (these are all Loconet devices, BTW) Drive the turnouts with the lowest cost stall motor accessory decoders you can find - CVP AD4MC (since they discontinued the AD4LC) or NCE Switch-Its. Or link it all with the SE8C's - the SE8C is probably the best value in layout automation around,FAR cheaper than C/MRI boards and jut about anythign else. Each one controls 32 signal heads - good for up to 8 OS sections for CTC - plus there are 8 outputs to drive Tortoises, and 8 inputs for block detectors! So in a passing sidign situation, where there is a turnout at each end, fully signaled - a single SE8C will full operate 4 of them, plus you need inputs for detecting the straight section of the siding and main. Look at the SE8C manual, Digitrax refers to the turnout and associated signals as a security element. The SE8C is fully equipped (well you need a block detector of some sort) to contol 8 of them - signals, turnout, and detecting if a train is within the element.

As for laying out the CTC panel - since you have so many computers, consider two panels, two divisions - you can have a second computer with locobuffer hooked to the very same loconet and control half the rialroad from one and half from the other. You're on the JMRI group - that's how Jerry Britton is handling things for his large N scale layout.

--Randy

[claycts]

Thanks for the insight Ransy will look at the SE8C.
We do have a cpu at Nanticoke and another at Allentown Yards.
I am using the 3rd to write this.
Take Care
George P.

[Stevert]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrinker

As for laying out the CTC panel - since you have so many computers, consider two panels, two divisions - you can have a second computer with locobuffer hooked to the very same loconet and control half the rialroad from one and half from the other. You're on the JMRI group - that's how Jerry Britton is handling things for his large N scale layout.

--Randy

And, if those two computers are already networked, or easily can be, you don't even need the second connection to the LocoNet. Just use the LocoNet server in JMRI instead and save yourself a few $$.

Steve

[claycts]

Everything is on a 1 gig backbone. will try the JMRI when I get the main up and clean.
Thank for the input!!
George P.