another of John's book that describes some of his layouts
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
cuyama Step 3: With that basic understanding of layout design principles and your preferences, look at published quality layouts to understand why the designer did what they did and reflect on how that lines up with your own ideas. While it’s (really) long, here’s my process for analyzing track plans. Model Railroad Planning magazine is one publication that often includes the background thinking on a design. The Layout Design SIG's Layout Design Journal is a deep dive into these topics. Byron
Step 3: With that basic understanding of layout design principles and your preferences, look at published quality layouts to understand why the designer did what they did and reflect on how that lines up with your own ideas. While it’s (really) long, here’s my process for analyzing track plans. Model Railroad Planning magazine is one publication that often includes the background thinking on a design. The Layout Design SIG's Layout Design Journal is a deep dive into these topics.
Byron
Brian
My Layout Plan
Interesting new Plan Consideration
railandsailPS: I tried making a copy of this text so I could read it at leisure.... but it would not let me do so??? process for analyzing track plans
I didn't have any trouble dragging my mouse to highlight the text and copying with control c and pasting to Word with control V, but an even easier way is to click on the little envelope icon below and to the right on each topic and email it to yourself.
Henry
COB Potomac & Northern
Shenandoah Valley
Is there a secret to track planning?
Yes
1) Minimum radius.
Try to exceed minimum radius by as much as you can.
2) Maximum grade.
Try to reduce maximum grade by as much as you can.
3) Tangent between S curves
Make your tangent length the length of your longest running stock or greater.
4) Easements
Adjust your vertical and horizontal changes as gradual as possible.
5) Vertical height and side clearances.
Make enough height clearance for your tallest running stock.
Make enough side clearance for your longest running stock.
Reference the NMRA National Model Railroaders Association for guidelines on all of the above.
This is what I did, just trying to help.
Best wishes
Track Fiddler
PS I was first guided to all this information by the members of this forum.
Track fiddler Is there a secret to track planning? Yes 1) Minimum radius. Try to exceed minimum radius by as much as you can. 2) Maximum grade. Try to reduce maximum grade by as much as you can. 3) Tangent between S curves Make your tangent length the length of your longest running stock or greater. 4) Easements Adjust your vertical and horizontal changes as gradual as possible. 5) Vertical height and side clearances. Make enough height clearance for your tallest running stock. Make enough side clearance for your longest running stock. Reference the NMRA National Model Railroaders Association for guidelines on all of the above. This is what I did, just trying to help. Best wishes Track Fiddler PS I was first guided to all this information by the members of this forum.
All of the above I pretty much learned from reading John Armstrongs "Track Planning for Realistic Operation".
If there is one single book for track planning any budding track planner should get, it's that book. It covers pretty much all of the basics listed above. After reading my copy many times over the years, I still keep it handy to look things up as a reference.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Are you are looking at these threads, where someone is showing his layout build, and there's dozens of post, hundreds of photos, and the construction from walls and lighting to benchwork and roadbed all look gorgeous. No wonder you can't get started.
If this is your first layout, the Dream Layout, it maybe a bigger bite of the apple than you are ready for. Maybe you should build a switching module, a grain elevator or a yard on a 2' x 6-8' piece of foam that could be incorporated into the larger railroad. Take a look at Ken Patttersons youtube videos.
He is building scenes for his photography, but some of them fit into his layout and he drags them outside for his photo shoots.
Once you have a piece that looks like you want your model railroad to look, then you can think; where is my railroad going and what else is it here to do. Don't rush to ballast the track. It's easier to change things if you don't like it.
NWP SWPWhat are some basic steps to start track planning?
If you are building an "around the walls" type of layout, divide the square footage by 4 (wide aisles or 3 for narrow aisles) and that will give you a rough idea of what your length of run will be. A 12x24 room is 288 sq ft = 72 ft of run with wider aisles or 96 ft with narrow aisles. That gives you an feeling for how big a layout you are planning. If you are doing multiple decks, each deck would be somewhere in that ballpark.
Then figure out what the normal train you want to run and how long it is. If I want to run an HO 2000 era 20 car train, that's about 15 ft long. Dividing my 72 ft main line by 15 ft that 4+ train lengths. That means I can only fit 2 sidings on my layout (siding-1 train of run-siding-1 train of run) or a yard and 1 other siding. If I want to run an HO 1900 era 15 car train, that's about 8 ft long. Dividing my 72 ft main by 8 gives me 9 train lengths, which means I can model 4 sidings.
Remember minimum radius is the MINIMUM.
The biggest problem people have is wanting too much. It is easier to have 3 or 4 things you want and then fit a few more in than to fit 45 industries on a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
Look at both ends of a shipment. People seem to always want a coal mine, why? There are more customers that recieve coal than there are coal mines. And they both use the same cars. You can easily have a coal dealer with a large bunker in the middle of a city where a coal mine in a city looks odd.
Don't be afraid to look at the prototype. They have lots of the same problems as modelers and they figured out how to do stuff long ago. Anybody that tells you not to look at the prototype is giving you bad advice.
Don't be afraid to make mistakes. Realize that your first layout isn't your last layout. I'm had about a dozen layouts over 50 years of modeling (including a decade or so with no layout.) Plus your goals will change. What you want and like in your first year of modeling will not be the same thing you want in your 10th, 20th year of modeling.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Ditto what Track Fiddler said, and dehusman. There are simple laws of physics that can't be defied. So many plans doodled and even published can't really be built effectively.
Radius, clearences, grade, turnouts, etc can all vary based upon the types of equipment that's being run. A string of Ore Jennies is going to be more tolerant with most design issues than is a string of Autoracks. A 2-8-0 is more tolerant than a 2-10-0
I am generally only interested in building room sized to single garage size layouts. Even with that somewhat decent sized space, I would limit my equipment to 65' in length, and that lenght with only a few cars.
IMO, you first have to start by understanding the basic constraints your modeling interest places on the track design. Again, shorter equipment provides more flexibility and opens more possibilites.
- Douglas
Rio Grande. I am curious about that book. I'm sure there is more information in it than what I know. Thanks for the tip.
Yes, pls tell me the secret sauce too! I tried using different free COTR programs to design layouts and gave up. The inspiration for my next layout came from depicting part of the actual N&W line. Looking at different layout plans is useful to a point: you can soon suffer from analysis paralysis.
Talk to others, look at how they design a layout, and don't be afraid to base your layout a bit on reality. Reality is often free.
The only "secret sauce" I know about is having at least some idea of what you are going for. Maybe not 100% detailed out, but going at it like "today I will design a track plan" with no idea of what you intend it do be is just as likely to result in failure as anything.
My previous layout, based on a specific prototype branch, took far less time to design than the previous generic 8x12 donut or even the one before that I designed as a 4x8 test track and chainsaw layout while planning to fill my old basement. And event he whole basement, based off prototypes, was taking forever because I was trying to design a layout for more than just my own personal interests, and sometimes there was conflict between those interests.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
All too often guys have actually laid the track and only when they started to run the trains did they comprehend what they've done and what they ended up with. So not the secret perhaps, but one secret or at least one challenge, is to be able to imagine and visualize what it would really be like to run model trains on what you have drawn on paper or see in a magazine or online as track plan.
One problem is that we tend to draw track plans as lines whereas our track and our trains have genuine width. Track dangerously close to the edge of the benchwork can be just one consequence of failing to remember the genuine width. Sometimes you see track plans drawn that have turnouts impossible close to one another from a purely practical tracklaying standpoint.
Consider the classic oval with reversing loop in the middle. At least in Lionel it doesn't create a wiring issue, but I see too many guys try that on a scale layout. Once you have run through the reversing loop -- now what? They should visualize that before they build.
Or consider yard ladders where the shortest track can hold only one car, or worse yet is too short to hold any car. I have actually seen that. It looked good on paper.
Dave Nelson
The most important requirement is going to be patience. Sometimes, lots of it.
I started HO with snap track many years ago with no Internet. I made mistakes designing to much and too fast.
I started with the four by eight sheet of plywood. Many did.
Today you can do a lot of research with an iPad. Loads of videos available. Don’t have to sit at a computer.
As an example, I keep all my recipes on my iPad and use it in the kitchen, store when shopping.
Only MRR magazines and trips to something called a library. Today that library is called the Internet.
Bachmann EZ track would be a benefit also. The nickel silver track. Not the steel track.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
As the tried and true advice to starting writers, "Write what you know", track planning follows the "Model what you like" thrust. First figure out what you enjoy seeing or what brought you to the hobby, then using Armstrongs "givens and druthers" use these things to develop what you want your railroad to do. If it's passenger operation, then a station and service area for theses is a good place to start, if you like the way-freight and switching, then a complex of trackage in an industrial are can be your focus. If you narrow your ideas to what is truly enjoyable to you, your layout will be more rewarding over the long haul.
After this step, try using the LDE (layout Design Element) cocept, espoused by Tony Koester. This is simply taking a prototype town or industry or even a scenic feature and design a segment of trackplan to portray this. Then string several LDE's together connected by track segments and voila! you have a trackplan.
In short, determine what you like, use the prototype to help you design elements, and then add them together to make a satisfying trackplan.
Have a Great Journey!
Jor
rrinker Once you have some idea of what you would like to have (Armstrong again, with his lists of "Givens and Druthers"), then you can start finding approriate track arrangements and fit them in. Randy
Once you have some idea of what you would like to have (Armstrong again, with his lists of "Givens and Druthers"), then you can start finding approriate track arrangements and fit them in.
Randy
Where do I find a blank form/copy of this "Givens and Druthers" that is mentioned so often? I didn't find it in his book, unless I missed it twice?
I did just find Byron's posting above, and his "Questions for Prospective Clients". I made a copy of that.
I wanted to have such a qestionaire sitting beside me as I re-review my potential layouts I've played with so far.
I think a big secret is not so much of design itself as how yu go about it.
A good layout software will keep you frrom designing something that can't be done. It will even let you run trains to test them out. ome good ones are free.
The other thing is once you do a design on this software you can post it here, and let everyone make comments. It might be hard to take, but a little ego translates into big $$$ if you are saved a mistake.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
I'll second the nomination for John Armstrong's book on realistic operation.
My advice is this (and it's quite simple) Railroads were built for the customers. (With the exception of storage, service and track yards) SO decide what buildings you want to see on your layout. Look up their foot print. Get SCARM (free) or ANYRAIL (free for a certain amount of track pieces) and start laying out your buildings BEFORE your track. This gives your railroad a purpose. Give it a source and destination.
-Shipping coal? Do you have a mine (source) -> coal bunker (reseller), power plant (consumer), or steel mill (consumer)
-Shipping wood? Do you have a forest (source) -> lumber mill (refiner) -> lumber depot (reseller) or furniture factory (consumer)
-Shipping wheat/corn? farm (source)-> storage silo or grain tower (storage)-> Feed Mill (consumer) OR Bakery (consumer)
-Shipping livestock? Do you have a farm (source) -> meat packing house (refiner)
-Shipping LCL? Source depot -> Target depot/ REA station / Mail facility -Shipping Deep Well Double Stacks? Seaport (source)-> unloading yard (destination)
-Passenger Route? Do you have a source station and destination station?
-Servicing Trains? Do you have RIP tracks? Coal/Diesel towers? Sanding towers? Storage facilities?
-Yard Operations? Do you have a purpose to do a lot of reshuffling? A place to go? A way to break down trains based on orders of next train coming in.
Decide on your smallest accepted radius, and mark the points on the layout corners where your turn would have to begin. Make sure every part of you table is within 30" reach from the side. Then start drawing paths between the industries. Be sure to plan scenery around your buildings. Roads, trees, mountains, rivers, etc...I have a disk full (quite possibly hundreds) or design plans that I have created myself. Don't worry if you don't get it right the first time, second time, or third. A lot of my ideas were scrapped and only a few made it to the "final contender" rounds for my basement empire.
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
Is there a secret to track planning? Yes but if we told you it wouldnot be a secret any longer now would it? Mike