Hey Lynn-
Keep in mind that the yard in the upper right corner is not quite so crowded. The innermost line is not a siding but rather represents a screen. I think. Might be solid and completely hide the staging yard, or maybe just a line of trees, fences, small structures, etc to give the impression of a screen. A psychological screen.
Robert
LINK to SNSR Blog
ROBERT PETRICK Hey Lynn- Keep in mind that the yard in the upper right corner is not quite so crowded. The innermost line is not a siding but rather represents a screen. I think. Might be solid and completely hide the staging yard, or maybe just a line of trees, fences, small structures, etc to give the impression of a screen. A psychological screen. Robert
Yep I realized that after looking a couple times.
Lynn
Present Layout progress
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/p/290127/3372174.aspx#3372174
carl425I've gone back through this thread and I don't see anywhere where you have expressed your operational goals for this layout. What type of operations are you trying to support? Do you want to operate the layout as a simulation of a real railroad or do you just want to run trains? Do you just want an outlet for your artistic energy? You reject the yard so I guess you don't want to originate/terminate trains. You reject staging so there is no source/destination for run through trains. What is it you want to do with this layout? There are no wrong answers. It's your railroad, your choices, but an understanding of what you want out of the layout would be most useful to those trying to help you. wickman How would you access a train in the Staging yard? Are you perhaps confusing the staging yard with the fiddle yard? You park assembled trains in a staging yard. Think of it as the actors waiting in the wings for their turn on stage. A fiddle yard is where you move cars on and off the layout by hand to make up/put away trains. btw, I like Steve's plan a lot (but then I'm not building it)
Hi Carl
Yes many questions you have and I will try to address each.
My Operational goals are very simple, there not on the top of my List but yes if I feel a need to switch some cars I would like to have it make scence. I would preer to simply run trains and at the most two 5 or 6 car trains.
I have DCC along with Tortoise switch machines connected to the DCC via DS64's. I have often thought I would like a simple control panel.
I have not rejected the thought of a staging yard but I'm struggling with loosing space for scenery. To tell you the truth I don't understand what you mean by " originate/terminate trains " , this is probably because I have always been simply a train runner.
I do understand the Staging yard is behind the false screen in the upper right corner and know what it is for, I had a gigantic staging yard on a layout in the same room with the same sort of benchwork and the staging yard was on a lower level that went down around the walls on a 2 % grade. I didn't find much use for it because once again back then operations didn't interest me but building the layout did.
To tell you the honest truth I think Steve did a very good job on his plan and give him 2 BIG THUMBS UP and have not written it off,I'm simply making comparisons to my benchwork also I like his idea of a hidden staging but have never done this idea before with a hidden screen and have no experience with it and my thoughts are to hold its construction would steal a bit more valuable space, but have read about modelers doing this with lanoleum flooring because of its smooth surface and being very bendable.
I also really like the idea of the lower left loop going into a tunnel to break up the Loop ( Brilliant idea ) .
Correct. I removed the reverse loop. It will save you a lot of wiring headaches to leave it out. I moved the passing siding to be near the industrial area so it has a reason to be.
You don't need to hide the staging. I prefer to have mine in the open. It just looks like a yard, which you need anyway. I added a couple of tracks to the top of the page to create a staging yard. Now you have a place to park a couple of trains when not in use. You can add more if you wish.
I liked the track plan that Steve created but it may be too busy for you because it concentrates more on switching that running trains. Maybe you can use ideas from both. You should check out the track plan for the Cajon Pass layout in this months magazine. It is similar to what your idea is. Basically it’s just a big loop designed for running trains through the scenery with limited switching. It has a nice big staging yard that holds several trains.
With the staging yard along the back wall you can put a backdrop in front of it or build a liftout foam mountain to access.
You will only need to access the staging yard if there is a derailment in there.
Stageing will allow you to store trains on the layout. If you dont have one you will need to store the trains somewhere off the layout. In my experience the less you handle the trains the less they get broken. And it is a process to pack away 15 cars and set up another 15 vs. flipping a switch.
You dont need to build all the town areas I have shown. I draw it in to see what is possible but most usually lay these areas out by hand at the build stage. What looks neat from the top on paper does not always look right in 3d and may need to be adjusted or left out. If you dont want the main yard replace it with a smaller switching area. That works too. With staging you won't need a main yard.
if you have the bench work built already. you would only need to narrow the top left section and lengthen the peninsula. Now is the time to do it. I had built all my benchwork (layout is 22' x 24') and started to layout roadbed then decided to make a change. I tore out everything accept along one wall. I don't regret it. Wood is the cheap part.
Steve
P.s. I really like the cajun pass layout this month also.
https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15621668_10209933187040619_1481220691384588872_n.jpg?oh=4a5deb115a0d06b20cd73dddb152716a&oe=58EADD53
Simplified the plan.
Moved the staging for easier access. More visable track along back wall for mountain or river scene. You can look along the wall behind the backdrop to see what is there. added an access to the top corner also. Staging tracks are 10' long.
Slow time at work.
Lone Wolf and Santa Fe Correct. I removed the reverse loop. It will save you a lot of wiring headaches to leave it out. I moved the passing siding to be near the industrial area so it has a reason to be. You don't need to hide the staging. I prefer to have mine in the open. It just looks like a yard, which you need anyway. I added a couple of tracks to the top of the page to create a staging yard. Now you have a place to park a couple of trains when not in use. You can add more if you wish. I liked the track plan that Steve created but it may be too busy for you because it concentrates more on switching that running trains. Maybe you can use ideas from both. You should check out the track plan for the Cajon Pass layout in this months magazine. It is similar to what your idea is. Basically it’s just a big loop designed for running trains through the scenery with limited switching. It has a nice big staging yard that holds several trains.
I'm DCC so wiring is simpilfied with autoreversers. Never too many ideas.
Choops https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/15621668_10209933187040619_1481220691384588872_n.jpg?oh=4a5deb115a0d06b20cd73dddb152716a&oe=58EADD53 Simplified the plan. Moved the staging for easier access. More visable track along back wall for mountain or river scene. You can look along the wall behind the backdrop to see what is there. added an access to the top corner also. Staging tracks are 10' long. Slow time at work. Steve
I spent a bit of time in xtrakcad to get a better feel for your first idea, of course the second idea has potential as well. I'm not done but this is what I've done so far . I'm a bit concerned with the left loop/tunnel , its easy enough to elevate the rail coming from the left wall and into the loop above grid level but lowering it to go below the upper track in the tunnel and then reappearing is a bit of a mind spin for me . Hiding the tunnel is easy enough with a building or two in front.
I couldn't contain myself, I had to test the theory with the left loop to the tunnel , a bit crude but I can see it better now. I'm still not sold on the staging yard going all the way up to the top and around the corner but I can see it happening shorter and further down on the same side.
Lookin' good Lynn!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
Thanks Dave, I'm not completely sold on the 4" high loop yep , means the are in the loop has to be raised up the same and that will all be sawmill and related. We will see.
I'm back seeking somemore help and ideas after getting such great results from you's.
I decided that no reverse loops will be needed but what I would like to do and seeking better ways of doing it is to keep the continuous loop but also be able to utilize the turntable and two tracks that are leading to it, we'll call the exits east and west , idea is , no matter which way the train is traveling I want to be able to stop the train , disconnect from train and use run around to enter to the rail to the turntable on both the right side tracks and the left side track.
My problem is I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I would have to reach across over buildings to connect/disconnect to the cars.
What other way can I do this so I can have the continuous run option but also have proper Turntable use? Is the location I've specified the best or are there other options you's see?
Apparently this is the way to run continuous but also do operations with the use of a Turntable.
If more information is needed please don't hesitate to ask and I will provide. The Turntable is a 90 foot which takes 13 inch mount hole.
Thanks
Hi Lynn:
Have you considered magnetic uncouplers at the two locations where the cars need to be uncoupled? Personally I would go with the electromagnetic ones so the uncoupling function can be turned off when not needed. I have heard that out of the box the Kadee electromagnetic uncouplers dont work all that well but I recall seeing articles on how to improve their reliability. Maybe someone can link to one.
Coupling the cars shouldn't require you to reach in as long as you do it on the short straight sections above the turnouts (he says, firmly believing that all couplers will work perfectly).
Dave I have tried magnetic uncouplers a few layouts back and they were very unpredictable at best , my buddy tried the drop away ones and because he enjoys his operations opted away from the uncouplers all together and uses the skewer. I figure if I'm going to try the Operations side I would prefer the manual uncouplers. I'm still playing around in xtrackcad to see if I can make it work. I hate to say it but I may have to resort to print out of the TT area and work it through with pencil, xtrackcad just isn't cooperating and my imagination is growing thinner by the day.
I was more curious from guys with experience if this was the right idea for Operations and Continuous Run.
wickman I'm back seeking somemore help and ideas after getting such great results from you's. I decided that no reverse loops will be needed but what I would like to do and seeking better ways of doing it is to keep the continuous loop but also be able to utilize the turntable and two tracks that are leading to it, we'll call the exits east and west , idea is , no matter which way the train is traveling I want to be able to stop the train , disconnect from train and use run around to enter to the rail to the turntable on both the right side tracks and the left side track. My problem is I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I would have to reach across over buildings to connect/disconnect to the cars. What other way can I do this so I can have the continuous run option but also have proper Turntable use? Is the location I've specified the best or are there other options you's see? Apparently this is the way to run continuous but also do operations with the use of a Turntable. If more information is needed please don't hesitate to ask and I will provide. The Turntable is a 90 foot which takes 13 inch mount hole. Thanks Lynn
Move the turntable to where the switch leading to the turntable currently is located. This should provide room (providing that the TT fits there) to have locomotive storage tracks or a roundhouse if desired.
i think you need to space (passing) sidings roughly halfway around the loop if you want to be able to run two trains in opposite directions with less interference (top left instead of top right. For this purpose, there is no need to uncouple cars, just hold a complete train until the other train passes.
Additional sidings are of course useful to hold trains/cars or as run-around tracks (left side) for locating cars on facing (not trailing) turnouts.
not sure why you need two connections to the turntable. May also be better to connect the turntable to a siding track instead of the main before the sidings, unless you're thinking of it as a yard lead (but then that inside spur (right side) would be better suited on the outside of the siding tracks.
a single spur can be used for multiple industries.
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
BMMECNYC wickman I'm back seeking somemore help and ideas after getting such great results from you's. I decided that no reverse loops will be needed but what I would like to do and seeking better ways of doing it is to keep the continuous loop but also be able to utilize the turntable and two tracks that are leading to it, we'll call the exits east and west , idea is , no matter which way the train is traveling I want to be able to stop the train , disconnect from train and use run around to enter to the rail to the turntable on both the right side tracks and the left side track. My problem is I'm having a hard time accepting the fact that I would have to reach across over buildings to connect/disconnect to the cars. What other way can I do this so I can have the continuous run option but also have proper Turntable use? Is the location I've specified the best or are there other options you's see? Apparently this is the way to run continuous but also do operations with the use of a Turntable. If more information is needed please don't hesitate to ask and I will provide. The Turntable is a 90 foot which takes 13 inch mount hole. Thanks Lynn Move the turntable to where the switch leading to the turntable currently is located. This should provide room (providing that the TT fits there) to have locomotive storage tracks or a roundhouse if desired.
Yes I agree with moving the TT North , problem is the Reach factor to the east sidings. I'm working on moving the West and East sidings closer to the isle but I do like the idea of moving the TT upward.
Yes Greg I did finally figure that much out that there is no need for West and East Turnouts below the sidings. The reason I'm doing this is so I can work in proper operations using the sidings and turntable West and East , I'm not doing this for a two train continuous run although when its done I should have that option.I'm attemping to move both sidings so there reachable, its taken a while but I think I've got the hang of manipulating the turnouts to connect on curves etc, I realize now the hours I spent years ago in xtrackcad was on a destop not a laptop, what a difference.
Ok guys I think I have it where it needs to be as far as West and East sidings and access to TT goes. Any thoughts or ideas on this plan ? Any ideas for tweaking the operations side of it for switching cars in and out of industries , thoughts?
I like it! The 32" reach in might require a bit of a stretch but you don't seem to have planned a lot of structures between that turnout and the aisle. You will have to be careful with telephone lines and lighting poles obviously.
Your plan has improved a lot from where you started!
hon30critter Hi Lynn: I like it! The 32" reach in might require a bit of a stretch but you don't seem to have planned a lot of structures between that turnout and the aisle. You will have to be careful with telephone lines and lighting poles obviously. Your plan has improved a lot from where you started! Dave
Thanks Dave ,I'm going to work this week to get the turntable area and yards tweaked this week. Credit goes to suggestions and Steve's plan rework.