"HIDING THE STASH"

[TrainsRMe1]

Hi All,

Are there any books on how to construct  hidden staging yards, and trackplans?? I'm building my 1st one and I want it to a good one .Thanks.

[Steven S]

Where do you want it?  If you're putting it under the layout you'll probably need a helix to get it low enough, although some people just have a long, descending run along the back of the layout. 

You can also put it in another room by going through a wall.  You can have have a few tracks hidden behind a long building flat or mountain ridge.

 

Steve S

[mobilman44]

Your question is majorly open ended and missing significant critical data.....

In example, what is the current layout footprint, how much room do you have to work with, what scale do you have, do you have basic or advanced woodworking skillsets, etc., etc.

Folks here will be more than glad to help out, but we need a lot more info to do you any good.

Gotta say, your post title is questionable..............

[dknelson]

Not all staging yards (hidden or otherwise) are on a different level than the main layout.  For those that are on a different level, just about any article on building multi deck layouts will give you the basic mechanics.  Jim Hediger wrote quite a bit about how he solved the multi deck challenge and those articles can be found using the magazine index on this website.

One good idea for hidden staging is to place it behind the backdrop and Mike Hamer covered that in Surround Staging in Model Railroad Planning 2001.   

Usually the construction element is secondary to the planning and operation of the staging yard itself, and thus the ideas and techniques are "buried" in overall track plan article  (such as those by Don Mitchell) which are not specifically about staging yards per se, much less how to contruct them  -- Tony Koester covered much of that design and use ground in his article "How to place staging and fiddle yards" in Model Railroad Planning 2012.  Model Railroad Planning 2016 which just came out a few weeks ago has two good articles on active staging ("fiddle yards") and an article that advocates making staging yards visible rather than hidden.

Model Railroad Planning has had numerous articles about how to "hide" exits and entrances on to layouts, which could go to and from staging yards.  Those articles are almost too numerous to mention.

I think it is also fair to say that in recent years there seems to be more and more articles pointing out some disadvantages to hidden staging yards and advocating making then visible (or at the very least, accessible and active and not purely "staging").  One example of that quite apart from MRP 2016 is David Barrow's article in Model Railroad Planning 1997.

Anyone interested in layout design should try as hard as they can to assemble a complete set of Model Railroad Planning issues from 1995 to the present.  

Dave Nelson 

 

[MisterBeasley]

I'm working on my staging at this point.  I built a long, narrow shelf along one wall and put 5 tracks along it.

The 4 tracks next to the wall be staging, and I'm going to build a removeable scenic cover over them.  The cover will be in sections for ease of use.  There is another bencwork module which now extends to the lower right beyond what's in the photo.  That will contain a station, a small turntable and an industry or two.  Thus, the whole section of the layout looks like a single-track branch line.

The visible yard throat for the staging is on a 90-degree curve leading off the rest of the layout.

This will be fully scenicked.  The 4 staging tracks will go into a tunnel.  I showed this to illustrate how I built the yard throat to optimize space, using a curved turnout, a 3-way turnout and one standard #5 turnout rather than a more traditional straight ladder.  The staging tracks themselves will all be hidden, but the turnouts will all be easily accessible and the throat will be a point of visual interest.

There are no grades involved.

[TrainsRMe1]

Hey Guys, 

My layout is a Nscale shelf around the room, my bench work is made like the Domino style, (David Barrows) my idea is to build the staging yard underneath my main classification yard, I  have about a 1'ft,and a half of space to play with, I  thought about using Woodland  Scenics inclines from the main yard to the staging yard,

[tomikawaTT]

Staging takes many forms, from a simple passing siding on the hidden (from the operator's view) side of the loop, to a multi-track diamond, to concentric reverse loops, to John Armstrong's 'reverted loop.  Then there are traversers, sector plates, super-turntables several tracks wide that can turn entire trains end for end...

My own staging approximates the complexity of a major division point, with separate yards for catenary and combustion-powered freights, a seven-track passenger holding yard, a single track connected to each main track by two crossovers so I can mix and match EMU cars into 2, 3 and 4 car trains.  There's even a branch line that moves loaded coal trains back to the colliery and their empty counterparts back to the JNR UP main.  All accessible under removable scenery, or reachable through the fascia - many by folding the control panels down.

Unless you're trying to simulate operation of over a hundred trains on a slow (fast clock) day, you would not need the complex I have.  However, for most people, staging obeys Koester's law - you will need (and should initially plan for) 2N + 1 full-train staging tracks, N being the number you initially thought you would need.  Alternatively, you can store excess trains in cassettes racked on the wall like so many shotguns at a hunting lodge.  Each cassette, for me, is the equivalent of one local freight/passenger storage track.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - and the rest of the country in staging)

[Anonymous]

The bad thing about hidden staging yards is - they are hidden, either behind a view block (backdrop, row of houses et al.), or underneath the layout. In both instances you cannot observe any train movement. You need some kind of "visual aid" to be able to operate the yard. This could be an illuminated control board with indicator lights or a little CCTV.

I´d also recommend the hidden staging yard to be double ended, so you can pull in and out without having the loco to run around the train. Remember, you actually don´t see what´s going on in the yard.

Personally, I am not in favor of hidden staging yards. I prefer an open yard, allowing you to "fiddle" around with that 0-5-0 switcher, also known as the sky hook.

[carl425]

"Under" doesn't necessarily mean "hidden".  If you have your staging on a shelf below the sceniced part of the layout, there is no rule that says you have to bring the fascia down low enough to block the view of staging.  If the layout is lighted well, an unlighted shelf under it will virtually disappear anyway.  Add some lights that are usually off and turn them on when you need to see something. If you still want to hide it, a removable curtain will do it for you and still allow access when you need it.

Stuff like CCTV or IR/current detection are cool, but require time & money to implement.  Peeking is free.

[tomikawaTT]

"Hidden," should be defined as, "Not observed by the operator standing at a normal location."  Various parts of my 'hidden' staging are visible through unobtrusive 'windows' in scenery and fascia.  Those viewports are only noticeable when I turn on the lights that illuminate the part of the netherworld that can be seen through each of them.  It's nice to be sure that the brake van is actually in the clear before selecting the adjacent track for the next inbound.

Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with lots of not-so-hidden staging)

[TrainsRMe1]

Thanks for the help, everybody i think I have an idea on what to do, the double ended yard is better, oringinally I wanted a reversal loop, but my radius would be too tight for my large loco's, the idea to put up a curtain to hide the yard is perfect for what I need,  and I'm going to install a line of LED lights so I can see the yard, when not in use I will turn the lights off, so with that, it's off to the train room, to start this project, I hope to post pictures of the progress ( if I ever get the posting of pictures down) LOL, anyway take care, and Happy Modelrailroading!!!!

[riogrande5761]

From the title, I thought this was a topic about hiding trains from your significant other.

Lots of possibilities but your imagination combined with seeing what others do provide you lots of fodder to work on a design.  

This is what I cooked up, an 11 track staging yard to store trains ranging from about 13 feet long to about 22 feet long:

Progress photo's:

 

One end of the staging track visible before finishing the upper level over the top: 

Same area now built over: 

 

[stuckinthe50s]

I am not sure as to the books that are out there. I started my planning about three years ago and referred to a book by John Armstrong, Track Planning for Realistic Operation, which was very helpful, but long out of print, I think. Honestly the most help I got was from the internet, and forums such as this. Be aware that a helix will require a lot of space. There are formulas that show the minimum radius to get a reasonable clearance with the percent grade you use. I found that two percent grade was my max, and discovered that the formula did not factor in the thickness of the roadbed. After I pondered the difficulty of constructing the helix, I decided that the best route for me to take was a hidden grade along the back of the layout to the staging yard. From my experience with my previous layout, I wanted everything to be accessable. I had a derailment on a hidden track, and lost a boxcar for 15 years until I deconstructed the layout for my move. The hidden track will need cleaning and if you can't get to it, it will become useless. I left the throat to the staging yard in the open so that I can replace any turnout if necessary, and I prefer hand thrown turnouts, This was a compromise as I did not want to see the two levels in one scene, but I am now in the process of doing scenery in this area, and making it simple enough that it will not draw attention, so I hope. I also learned from my old layout to make the tracks at least as long as my longest train, and have plenty of tracks to hold my trains.

I wish you luck, but like I said, if you can find the books that may help you, fine, just don't forget to search the internet and ask questions. Keep us posted on your progress, and experiences.

[cuyama]

stuckinthe50s

I started my planning about three years ago and referred to a book by John Armstrong, Track Planning for Realistic Operation, which was very helpful, but long out of print, I think.

Happily, still available today
Track Planning for Realistic Operation

 

 

[riogrande5761]

cuyama

 

stuckinthe50s

I started my planning about three years ago and referred to a book by John Armstrong, Track Planning for Realistic Operation, which was very helpful, but long out of print, I think.

 Happily, still available today

Track Planning for Realistic Operation

Thumbs up for Track Planning for realistc operation by John armstrong.

[kasskaboose]

riogrande5761

From the title, I thought this was a topic about hiding trains from your significant other.

Ditto here about that thought!  I was going to suggest the closet or underneath the carpet.  Why not keep the cars somewhat visible so others can see them arrive/depart?  I do 'hide' consists behind scenery a bit to give the appearance of the layout going on forever.  There was an MR article years ago talking about ways of doing that. 

[riogrande5761]

kasskaboose

riogrande5761

From the title, I thought this was a topic about hiding trains from your significant other. 

Ditto here about that thought!  I was going to suggest the closet or underneath the carpet.  Why not keep the cars somewhat visible so others can see them arrive/depart?  I do 'hide' consists behind scenery a bit to give the appearance of the layout going on forever.  There was an MR article years ago talking about ways of doing that.

Typical of this forum - people making topic titles which are misleading and turn out to be a "hook" to get you to read it - and then you find it's about something different.  Annoying but thats MR forums modus operandi.

[BroadwayLion]

LION spent good money collecting a fleet of subway cars. Him is not about to hide them in the tunnels, but will stage them in the Coney Island yards when not in service. If ewe have room for a staging yard, you have room for a fright yard, uless of course your modeled territory does not call for that much equipment on the layout at once.

LION does have some staging yards in the tunnels (think137th Street)and while that is out of sight, it really is still right there on the layout. If someone takes the trouble to look into the Onion Square station, they are right there. Subways were an after thought to the building of my railroad. The entire lower level was supposed to be staging for long distance and regional passenger trains, but with the advent of inexpensive subway equipment, those yareds were torn out and replaced with a four track mane lion.

ROAR

[Lone Wolf and Santa Fe]

I thought this thread was about hiding newly purchased model railroad merchandise from your wife. Lol