I am planning a 7x16' layout. Around the outer perimeter I want a mainline double track just to show off some turn of the century On30 steam using 35" radius at the ends. Can 35"radii handle just about anything?, and here's the stupid part... did they ever run double lines through tunnels?
Steve
Life is tough, but it's tougher if your'e stupid.
Sure, there are double track tunnels -- I have some videos of the Norfolk Southern in West Virginia and Pennsylvania going through double track tunnels. I believe most of them were former Pennsylvania Railroad territory.
Are you sure you can reach across 7 foot wide benchwork without having to get up onto it?
Thanx cacole. In the middle of the layout will be a small permanent mountain range. all operation will be within 2' of the edges. At elevation I want a mining operation for two truck shay's and climax's with plenty of trestles. Just an idea now, and experimenting with AnyRail.
If there will be three feet in the center (or even a bit less, depending on your circumference) without track, might be worth considering just making those mountains lift out. This makes it easy to scenic them, etc on the bench. I made about 80% of the scenery on my Cascade Branch extension removeable. Lots of pics and details here: http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/88/t/219241.aspx
Here's a couple of pics showing the main mountain range being lifted . It's around 20 to 25 pounds, as most is styrofoam with just a coating of Sculptamold.
35" radius should handle just about any On30, as it's usually designed for standard HO track and typically consists are composed of short cars.
Another way to handle tunnels on double track lines is often side-by-side tunnels, often with one being the origianl, smaller clearance one, while the second was built when traffic necessitated and for bigger more modern rolling stock.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Thanx Mike... that is exactly the info I was looking for. Love the lift out mountains idea, and nice looking layout by the way. Ilike the idea of side by side tunnels.
Double track tunnel: How about the one at Gallitzin, PA. Built for double track, but clearance was too low for double stacks so it was shifted to single track down the centerline. Then it was entirely rebuilt (re-dug?) ending up as high-clearance double track.
The ex-NYC tunnels at the Hudson Narrows were built double track - but were so low that NYC and its successors never ran domes or anything else taller than 15'3". To see what this means, put a NYC 6000 class (Niagara) alongside anyone else's 4-8-4. And the 6000s fit those tunnels like a key in a keyhole.
Note that, in both cases, the line was designed and built double track (or wider.) The usual practice, when adding a second track to a single track line, is to bore a separate tunnel, possibly on a better profile.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with single track tunnels)
Steve,
narrow gauge railroads were usually built and operated on a shoestring budget. I don´t think that they would have gone through the expense of having a double track main, let alone a double track tunnel. Chuck (Tomikawa) will tell you differently, as in some countries, like Japan and South Africa, narrow gauge is the standard. At least in North America and Europe I have not heard of a double track tunnel on a narrow gauge line.
Hoosac Tunnel out in western MA, dug some years after the Civil War, was originally double track. Then to get more clearance for double stacks, they relaid a single track right down the middle of the tunnel sometime in the 80's. I'd think a double track tunnel would be entirely convincing for steam era narrow gauge.
35" radius will handle anything in HO. On30, I don't really know, never having run or handled On30. But for a narrow gauge line I'd expect the steamers to be on the smallish side, Consolidations, Mikados, Moguls, and Pacifics. Those ought to go round 35", no sweat.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
Living inthe North Eastern Part of the US, I can say I've seen some double track tunnels, and some double track in twin singles side by side, too, even if sometimes only in pictures at "local" train museums and tourist lines from days gone by long ago. Modern eras may have single lines only, but, hey your layout could be of older eras?
SirMadog may be right on the narrow guage not having them, but, hey it is your layout and can do what you want. It's called "protolancing" Prototype-freelancing.
I agree the 35" radius should handle anything, even in On30. Most of the Bachmann On30 stuff is desinged to need only 18" {or greater obviously} for such models as, but not limited to: 2 truck shays; 2-6-6-2 articulateds with tenders; Forney 2-4-4's;4-6-0's; 4-4-0's; 2-6-0's; Railbus & trailers form the 2010 model year productions.
In fact according to Bachmann's own catalog book which lists the minmum radius for each loco, the only variations for the 2010 model year not listed above that was NOT just "18" or greater" was the Outside Frame 2-8-0 Consolidation, rated at needing a 22" {or larger} curve, and the Critters, which can naturally handle as narrow as the 15" radius.
So I think you are safe with that large radius.
I agree on the moutain liftout, though, easier to scenicking off the layout and SHOULD you ever have a need to go "inside" your layout you will be thankfull you did.
I can only dream of having such a large layout! In any scale! But I, too, would make the center lift-out-able.
Have fun!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
tomi, that is what I plan to do, run two separate tunnels. Thanks for the help on that. Will try to find pictures of the Gallitzin.
Thanks
Ulrich... you are so right, but then again I have lots of money for the passenger service, but not so for the mining business.
dstarr, right... Mikados and Pacifics. Appreciate the help. Finally this thing is taking shape in my mind.
galaxy, Ilike that... protolancing. Got a feeling I will be doing a lot of that. Wow, would like to run a 2-6-6-2. The two truck Shay and Climax are planed for.
Good advice galaxy, thank you.
In issues of morality, some folks say WWJD is a good policy. In railroading, it's WWPD: What would the prototype do? A busy and prosperous railroad would drill a double-track tunnel if that was what it needed to keep traffic flowing. A marginal operation could not afford the luxury of digging and maintaining more tunnel than they needed. Somebody will probably prove me wrong here, but I doubt that you'll find any double-track tunnels on struggling narrow gauge lines.
ACY, no, I think you got it right, and there probably some in the rich Pennsyvania coal country. Things were probably more frugal out west. But... as I am not a stickler for prototype operations, I'll probably add it just cause it looks cool. Ha.