I dabbled in the hobby when I was 10 but got no help from any adults so there went my hobby, not being old enough to understand electric or building benchwork. After recently visiting several layouts I descided to take up the hobby again. I tried getting my supplies and following directions from the NMRA website.. it was CONFUSING!! I got wrong supplies, wrong cuts of wood, not enough wood, etc... I have the frame built but the plywood closest to what NMRA recommended is sooooo heavy (23/32 4x8 plywood)!! I cant lift the table to finish it and the legs cant support it... and I even got bigger legs then it called for!! What can I use instead that is light weight yet strong? I am doing a model railroad here, not building a stage! I plan to use 1inch foamboard over it. I AM READY TO THROW IN THE TOWEL, PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!
I started about a year ago after seeing some MRR museum layouts. I am a book guy, so I went book shopping. Kalmbach has a number of good books, including some "Getting Started" books, and some specifc to benchwork. It has worked well for me. One caveat, though. I have found there is no one right way. Often you will see multiple approaches to the same activity in different books.
One more suggestion, start small. It is very easy to get overwhelmed, at least it has been for me.
Richard
All you need is a rectangular frame made with 1X4, not 2X4, plus maybe three braces or joists spread evenly between the two long members of the frame. Then screw 1/2" decent grade plywood, such as G1S, onto that frame. For legs, use 1X2 with some braces.
A sheet of G1S will weigh close to 20 pounds all by itself...I think...? But the rest of what I describe will add only another eight-ten pounds. If you installed some blocking at the bottoms of the legs and drilled and inserted casters, it would be a cinch to shove that thing around....keeping in mind you don't want to tumble your locos if you can help it.
-Crandell
Would be oh so helpful if the NMRA beginner guide there would have some pictures, I mean, this is almost 2014 and this is the internet. All text? Sheesh.
Don;t agree with them splitting 1x4's to make 1x2's for the cross braces, just use 1x4's all the way.
Legs should have no problem holding it up - if you put in the braces. Absolutely need to be braced, just a vertical post of a 2x2 is going to wobble and shake all over the place.
There are other options, 2" think extruded foam insulation instead of the plywood, for example. MUCH lighter. Some places have 4x8 sheets of it, but more commonly it's in 2x8 sections, so you'd need 2. What you need is a 4x8 box of dimentional lumber, with cross pieces, 2 foot centers is fine, so a total of 5 pieces, cut to 46 1/2 long. Plus two pieces 8 feet long. Make a box, and then put the other 3 cross pieces in between, evenly spaced. Use wood glue and screws. Predrill the holes so the wood doesn;t split. Use the wood glue to attach the foam top. No screws or nails needed, just apply lots of weight (books and stuff) over the areas where the wood is. Let dry for a couple of days. For legs, easiest thing is to use a 1x2 and a 1x3, glue the 1x3 to the 1x2 to make an L shape, glue and screw. at the second cross brace in from each end, clamp the legs in place and drill 1/4" holes through the leg and cross brace, and leg and side piece. Use 1/4" bolts, washers, adn nuts to secure the legs on. Use some 1x2 to make an X side to side along the 4' side of the legs, adn also make braces to go from the side of the leg to just inside the center cross brace at an angle, 4 in all. This should be a nice sturdy table.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Another option is you are worried about weight is build your layout as a sectional using the NMRA standards for modules. Each straight module is 30" deep by 48" wide. The corners are a 48" x 48" square with one diagonal cut to join the straight modules at the 30" dimension making a pentagon. They also use 1x4 for the framing with one brace in the middle. The modules also use 2x2s for the legs with auto levelers attached on the bottoms. The legs are attached using 1/4" carriage bolts making assembly and movement easy.
The skills and tools needed to build a quality free standing model railroad from the ground up can take a fair piece of time to acquire. As Richard said, starting small and working your way up is good advice, so too utilizing Kalmbach's great beginner books.
My first layout at age 32 was on an HO 4x6 pc of plywood fastened to an old metal desk, an oval of track and one turnout. A year or so later and I'd worked my up to an HO 4x8, but still attached to the old desk. A couple more years and I was ready to attempt an HO free standing cookie cutter style 5x15 layout. There were plenty of mistakes, set backs and do overs along the way, but learned from each and every one.
Hang in there, it's a challenging journey, but loads of fun and the experience gained will serve you well in many other aspects of life. Heck, I wish there was an internet when I started.
Happy New Year! regards, Peter
njguy,
There are as stated above a number of ways to build benchwork, I have posted below another option which I used to jump start my build.
This is Mianne benchwork which not only is easy to put together, sturdy and light weight, but you can start with any size you can think of build on it forever. Posted below is my layout that is a work in progress.
http://cs.trains.com/mrr/f/11/t/215513.aspx
Aflyer
njguyWhat can I use instead that is light weight yet strong? I am doing a model railroad here, not building a stage! I plan to use 1inch foamboard over it.
here's an google image search for model railroad benchwork. Look at what others have done
(where in nj)?
greg - Philadelphia & Reading / Reading
Njguy,
To The Forums. Like others have already mentioned, there are literally ton's of info out there. To start with MRR Video's and on the Mag site under ''How To'' before you start to build any bench work though, it would be a good idea,to nail down, what you want to build it for, like some track plan, or one that someone has built already. Below is a sample of what is available by just clicking on the ''How To'':
http://mrr.trains.com/how-to/build-model-railroad/2010/02/layout-construction
If anyone has already suggested,what I just did, I apologize, for I did not read all replys.
Frank
Interesting site. For beginners:
http://modeltrains.about.com/od/modelrailroadtrains/u/model_railroad_basics.htm#s7
njguyI have the frame built but the plywood closest to what NMRA recommended is sooooo heavy (23/32 4x8 plywood)!! I cant lift the table to finish it and the legs cant support it... and I even got bigger legs then it called for!!
Hmmm, let me guess you built a table-top out of 3/4" plywood (yes, it's officially 23/32", but people tend to refer to it by the nominal measurement)?
I think you've mistaken what's advised for a thin section of subroadbed and applied it to a wide area where 1/2" ply would otherwise suffice. When there are multiple support points, as in a tabletop, there's no need for the sort of construction recommended for subroadbed, which is typically a narrow section of wood supported along its centerline.
Certainly, if you said you needed bigger legs to support it, your design may leave something to be desired. Did you have angled braces or plywood gussets to help stiffen the legs? I only ask, because I have a very large area in my center penisula that's is largely, but not completely, 3/4" ply and it's supported by just four 2"x2" legs, well braced.
Here's a pic when I had things cleared off to paint the track.
It may actually be worthwhile to look into some basic carpentry books. Knowing material measurements is one thing, but understanding how to work with wood is generally assumed when a list of materials is presented. It can be weak or strong, depending on how you put things together, for isntance you used screws and not nails for fasteners, right? Don't know if you can post up some pics of where things are with your benchwork? It's going to be a lot easier to give specific advice on what's right and what's wrong -- and what to do about it.
It may actually be worthwhile to look into some basic carpentry books. Knowing material measurements is one thing, but understanding how to work with wood is generally assumed when a list of materials is presented. It can be weak or strong, depending on how you put things together, for isntance you used screws and not nails for fasteners, right?
Don't know if you can post up some pics of where things are with your benchwork? It's going to be a lot easier to give specific advice on what's right and what's wrong -- and what to do about it.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
No, the NMRA site really does say build a 4x8 flat tabletop out of 3/4" plywood with a 1x4 frame, and to split a couple of 1x4's into 1x2's to make crossmembers, and split some 2x4's to make 2x2 legs.
Yikes!!! Split/rip 2X4's??!? That's just silly. For my last layout, onto which I hauled my carcass many times during its construction and scenicking, I did actually rip 1X4's and use the 1X2's (which we all know are considerably thinner than their implied dimensions) as the legs. I used smaller elements of those 1X2's as diagonal braces. I swear I could have danced on my yard section. It was the rectangular frame, but because it was a full 8' long, I opted to use L-girders on the lengths. With a topping of 5/8" G1S, and the legs and bracing, it was rock solid. Lag-bolted to the adjoining section comprising the rest of the layout, it was not going to budge.
rrinker No, the NMRA site really does say build a 4x8 flat tabletop out of 3/4" plywood with a 1x4 frame, and to split a couple of 1x4's into 1x2's to make crossmembers, and split some 2x4's to make 2x2 legs. --Randy
That does seem like both overkill and underkill, yet it presumably worked for the guy who posted the information, who I suspect is very equipped and skilled with various table saws. Few beginners -- seemingly the target seeing as they are talking about a 4x8--are equipped to rip their own lumber.
Kalmbach seems to no longer publish Linn Westcott's book on building benchwork, but it does publish Jeff Wilson's book as well as a more beginner oriented "Tables for Your Trains." I'd look there first.
But our friend already has his 3/4" plywood 4x8. If it is possible to cut it in half - perhaps with a simple jig saw -- it will be easier to handle and manipulate. I also use 1x4s for all framing and support. I use 2x2s for legs but they'd need some supporting trusses or whatever.
Jim Hediger has written some interesting stuff about making his own legs and framing from plywood rather than dimensional 1x4s. He makes L shaped plywood legs that are glued and screwed together. I have not used that for benchwork but I did build two workbenches entirely out of plywood following Hediger's methods and they are very solid and strong. As bad as some plywood can be, the current state of dimensional lumber unless you buy the imported stuff from Sweden, is a disgrace.
Frankly I share Tony Koester's position that the 4x8 is a great source of benchwork plywood but should not be used to make a layout that is 4x8. He recommends having the lumber yard rip it length wise (and smooth out the edges on the belt sander while they are at it) so that you have two 2x8s to form one long layout or an L shape, point to point.
My entire layout consists of 2x4' benchwork dominos laid end to end or in L shapes at corners, some of which were bought that way as handi panels and some of which were cut down from 4x8 sheets -- of 1/2 plywood. Add enough bracing and 1/2" is plenty thick. 1/4" is too thin for my tastes.
Regardless of whether you share Koester's views about point to point versus oval or not, yes a 4x8 sheet of thick plywood is almost too much for a person working alone to deal with easily.
Dave Nelson
Randy,
I wasn't disputing what it said, only whether that really is a good idea. That page badly needs an update, but as a mostly volunteer organization, sometimes things take awhile.
As a staunch advocate of 3/4" ply myself, it's only because of the specific application to roadbed of the narrow variety. For wider areas, where there is support to each side, as well as end to end, good quality 1/2" is almost always suitable. In the case of the pic I included above, it's only the extensive cookie-cutter effects that caused me to stick with 3/4".
Maybe the NMRA anticipated that in this case, but it should explain it's no necessary for a table top that won't see conversion to cookie-cutter at a later date. Otherwise, it is far too heavy. You usually anticipate being able to move a table-top.
I used 1" x 4"s and 2" foam. This 18' x 6' bench is picked up easily by two people.
Here's what it looks like from underneath.
I used lap joints on the 1" x 4"s and this made it very strong.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
Brent,
Nice work there.
The OP should note your use of 2" foam. 1" will work, but is somewhat less robust as far as structural strength. Go with 2" and you'll have no concerns.
Here's a link to Kalmbach's Benchwork book.
You should be able to substitute 23/32 plywood for whatever thichness they specify. Or you could buy a thinner plywood. I have found 1/2" (or 15/32) or less can be handled by 1 person, but 3/4" (or 23/32) really needs 2 people as you have found out.
If you have no experience with woodworking consider the pre fab benchwork mentioned above. It's a little more expensive, but it will get you going.
A quick easy way to get started is to just lay the 23/32 plywood across 2 utility tables that are 2ft x 4ft each (I get mine at Costco, but office supply stores and other places have them). Set the tables about 1 ft from each end of the plywood to minimize sagging. This is not a long term way to go, but it will get you started, until you can build proper benchwork.
Good luck
Paul
Dave,
Yes, that's one way to make sure the 1" foam stands up to hard use and multiple modifications. You do have to deal with making repeated penetrations thorugh the 1/4" plywood, but that's easy with a drill. Plus that makes it easy to mount under table turnout controls, since there's no need to mount them in foam, which can be tricky.
THANK YOU ALL for your input! My Father In Law caome over and helped me get alot of it done and gave me some of his input. I'm glad that in my moments of doubt there are people in this forum who will lift me up! THANK YOU ALL AGAIN!!!
I have a benchwork question and figured this is as good as any place to ask. I'm working on my first layout and have already built a 5x9 L-girder benchwork following the plans in the L.Westcott book. The basic benchwork is complete and seems sturdy, but I haven't attached any of the cross braces yet for the risers because I was still figuring out my track plan.
Once I've finalized my plan, I'm a bit confused about how to draw and cut the sub roadbed for the track. The Westcott book has a page or two about this, but sort of glosses over it. I'm a bit unclear of how I transfer my track plan (which was layed out in Anyrail) to the plywood for cutting and what sort of things I need to consider when doing this.
For instance, I have some grades in parts of my plan and I want to make sure that the elevation changes are smooth. Should I use one continuous piece of plywood for the entire elevation change? I would assume that the cut should guy a bit of the ways into the part where the elevation flattens out so that I don't have pieces butting up at the joints.
If anyone has some pointers on this topic it would be much appreciated. There are a few Youtube videos around but I thought there would be more on this topic.
Thanks!
You don;t want a joint in the start (or end) of the grade change, that transistion needs to be smooth. Once in the continuous part of the grade, you can spalce two pieces together - it's not always practical to have one long piece reach from base level, through the transition, the length of the grade, and the transition back to level.
You need to make the subroadbed wide enough to cover the track, the roadbed, ballast, and trackside details, plus something to attach the scenery to to fill in the open spaces. If you've planned it out, you can make wider sections for trackside structures. What you need to do is lay out your plan witht he track centerlines, but leave sufficient room to either side for the extras. You cna just draw that in freehand right ont he plywood. It doesn;t have to be perfect - if one section butts up to another and one ends up 1/2" wider, it doesn't really matter unless there is a close clearance for a retaining wall or something - and you cna always trim it down with a saber saw.
At joints, put another piece of plywood under the joint, spanning a couple of inches to either side, to provide support for the joint and hold the joined pieces in alignment.