I have been ballasting my N Scale flex track using a dilute white glue mixture, but the ballast is crumbling in some spots. I am repairing as needed, and suspect I used too dilute a mixture in some spots. What are best glue to water ratios? Any other suggestions?
I use a 50:50 mixture of glue/water, one drop of liquid detergent is then added to this mixture as a wetting agent. Two shotgun pellets are added to the glue/water container to help mix things together. I also apply 70% isopropyl alcohol to the ballast prior to applying the glue mixture.
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
I use 1 part glue to 3 parts water. Before adding the glue, I apply isopropyl alcohol straight from the bottle, using an eyedropper. This acts as a "wetting agent" and allows the glue to flow through the ballast much more easily.
I find that my ballast remains "crumbly" for a day or two, depending on humidity, before it finally sets up hard. Yours may be fine, too, but don't expect it to be rock-solid just because it's dry to the touch. The alcohol, in my experience, also helps the ballast to harden up faster.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I use from 50/50 to 1 part glue, to 2 parts water, depends on how much glue I have on hand and how much to do. And add detergent which is a surfactant to break up the water tension.
Richard
The problem, if your solution was no weaker than about 1/5 in favour of the water, is probably penetration. If your solution was much thinner than 1/8, you may just be light on the glue. However, the white and yellow glues do set up pretty hard if they are of good quality and are not too dilute, so that is why I am inclined to lean in favour of penetration/amount. below the first 1/8".
I pre-wet with isopropyl alcohol at 70%, and I still add two drops of dish detergent liquid to the glue mix. I also place three or four small pebbles in the glue bottle so that I mix it well upon shaking.
If you are afraid that other places might be fragile, don't bother checking...just apply more glue to the surface, but with detergent added, and make sure you observe it soak in and not run off.
Crandell
Spray rubbing alcohol on the ballast first as a "wetting agent" and then spoon on a 4:1 ratio of water to glue. That's the "best" dilute in my experience for the glue. Using rubbing alcohol first prepares the ballast for a better absorption of the glue mix. Oh, and add a few drops of liquid dish detergent to the glue and water mix to help the spread.
I have tried every other formula you can imagine and this one works best. Trust me.
Rich
Alton Junction
Looks like there is always one odd ball, and that's me.
I use two parts glue to one part water. Then apply 70% alcohol to wet the ballast with first, then apply the water-glue mix. The way I figure it, the wet alcohol dilutes the water-glue mix as it's going on.
I apply both using an eye dropper.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Other than being a "double,darn sure" approach, what's the point of both alcohol AND detergent? Seems like overkill, but maybe I'm missing something.
Mike
mreagant Other than being a "double,darn sure" approach, what's the point of both alcohol AND detergent? Seems like overkill, but maybe I'm missing something. Mike
Mike,
I don't think you're missing anything.....I've always wondered this myself but the "double, darn sure" approach seems to work for me. I have had difficulties with the water/glue mixture beading up when first applied but with the alcohol and detergent mixed with the glue seems to prevent this beading. Maybe it is just my particular ratio of water/glue (50:50) that causes the beading to take place???? I've seen where others here use more water in their mixture and that is something I might have to try.
My glue/water (1/3) beads up when it gets to a spot where I've missed applying alcohol. I don't understand applying both alcohol and soaped water, but beading will occur on dry ballast with neither of them.
Well, I never thought of myself that way, but I guess that I am a "double,darn sure" guy. So, let me explain my approach.
When I first ballasted my layout back in 2005, my LHS guys advised me on the "proper approach". Their advice was to spray water on the Woodland Scenics ballast and then spoon on a 2:1 water/glue mix.
Since I was using matte medium for the glue, and that stuff is quite expensive, I later switched to a 3:1 water/glue ratio. Still later, I went to a 4:1 mix.
All that time, the advice was to add a few drops of liquid dish detergent to each cup of mix to facilitate absorption.
So, until about two years ago, I first sprayed water on the ballast, then applied a 4:1 water/glue mix with a few drops of liquid dish detergent mixed in. However, even after first spraying water, the water/glue/detergent mix seems to run and leave little gulleys in the ballast. Someone on this forum suggested spraying rubbing alcohol instead of water, and that really improved the absorption of the water/glue/detergent mix.
That is how I became the "double,darn sure" guy that I am today.
LION uses GRAVITY! Does not need glue!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
BroadwayLion LION uses GRAVITY! Does not need glue! ROAR
Lion,
I've seen photos of your excellent layout on this forum and don't remember seeing any ballast?? I'm confused, but then again I'm easily confused. Help me out here...
sfcouple BroadwayLion: LION uses GRAVITY! Does not need glue! ROAR Lion, I've seen photos of your excellent layout on this forum and don't remember seeing any ballast?? I'm confused, but then again I'm easily confused. Help me out here... Wayne
BroadwayLion: LION uses GRAVITY! Does not need glue! ROAR
That's because he is LION !
A lot depends on what you are trying to hold down. Try and recall the mix you used before and stiffen it a bit with more glue.
see ya
Bob
Here there be ballast...
Here there be more ballast...
LION buys ballast at WALMART. Comes in big 25# bag. Has picture of a CAT on the bag. You have to sift out the big pieces (save those for the cats... they will not know the difference), use the small pieces on your layout. You will see that the LION does not use roadbed, these tracks are all in open cuts.
Here is NYCT picture of the same station:
It is an old picture... notice the TELEPHONE mounted on the wall. How Ancient can that be!
Thanks Lion...can't recall seeing those photos before today. I'm wondering, if you just use the theory of gravity to keep the ballast in place do you ever have any problems with "wondering" pieces that might get inside your motive power or find their way into switch points? It seems to me that without gluing ballast one would have constant cleanup issues and maintenance problems.
LION has not had problems with ballast in switches, but then him puts no ballast around switches. It has not caused any problems with motors in all the years that I have run this railroad. Since there is no roadbed, the ballast cannot sift down off of the road bed. LION thinks that unless you are modeling a major main line railroad, most cork roadbed is too tall anyway. Cases in point:
Mr. Lion has a one-of situation. For virtually everyone else, unsecured ballast is a bad idea.
Layout Design GalleryLayout Design Special Interest Group
Thanks Lion---very interesting photos,
I do agree with your comment about cork roadbed being too high in many cases. When it is used on my layout I typically lay it upside down so the beveled edge cannot be seen---there are a few exceptions but most of my track appears to be laid on level ground with just a thin layer of ballast around the ties/rails. However, all my ballast is thoroughly glued down with the areas around switch points kept free of all ballast.