I saw in the latest MR that Vic Roman's layout has them as does mine. It occurred to me to ask if anyone else here does too.
A couple of 2 x 4 or similar sized strips of styrene on top of a base piece 5/8 inches wide, some paint, and realistic water. I should probably photograph them from a higher angle.
By day ... and by night
The green dot in the distance is a dwarf signal.
The mind is like a parachute. It works better when it's open. www.stremy.net
The one thing missing from the MR cover photo is the cloud of semisolid water escaping the vent pipes of the tender. The prototype photo shows it clearly - except that the Niagaras scooped faster and threw more water farther. Don't ask me how I know! (It was a cold, cloudy, windy November day...)
Back when I planned to model the NYC, I intended to include water pans. Then I switched prototypes, and terrain. The NYC pans were located on a stretch of rail that was dead level. The only level mainline track on my current layout is either immediately adjacent to passenger platforms or located deep in the depths of the netherworld.
If the JNR ever had track pans and scoop-equipped tenders I'm not aware of it. As for my mountain goat trail with rails on it, the runs are too short to warrant them - and 'way too steep to allow them.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
Other than the New York Central for use by their 20th Century Limited and the Pennsylvania Railroad for their Broadway Limited, did any other railroad use track pans?
Their only purpose was to eliminate water stops for passenger trains.
Yes, NYC and Pennsylvania. I think that the Great Western and Huron Valley (Mich.) used them too. I've been told that they were very popular in the UK.
I think some other lines carried a second tender for long hauls.
I model the catskill mtn area and carry NYC traffic so pans on the main work for me. Not on the branch though, the water keeps running out.
Chuck - I have a picture in my mind of a track pan next to a passenger platform. I guess that kind of installation would be major FAIL
cacole Other than the New York Central for use by their 20th Century Limited and the Pennsylvania Railroad for their Broadway Limited, did any other railroad use track pans?
The B&O, RDG and PRSL had track pans.
Cacole.
Freights used them also. The PRR road freights scooped water on the fly.
I plan on modeling some pans with the cut stone right of way and the steam heat pipes to keep them from freezing. The biggest problem they had with pans was the leaf litter and trash getting scooped up also. Water was always flowing with drains at several intervals to wash away debris. Another problem was not raising the scoop in time. Usually it was just the scoop that got mangled but sometimes the pans were mangled too. The sides of the pans were not straight up and down but more resembled an upside down U to keep the splash out to a minimum. There was also talk on another forum about the minimum speed it would take to scoop water on the fly. Some of the engineers on the forum claim they scooped water at as little as 10 MPH on slow orders. One said anything faster then 50 MPH would push out more water than it would scoop. The force of the water would be so strong that the hatches would blow and the scuppers on the tenders would splash out water. One guy said he was firing a K4s when they hit the pan doing 70 plus. The force of the water being pushed ahead was so strong it was going up the ash pan and into the grates putting out the fire. The hogger was whistling the brakeman to raise the scoop but it was too late. It took 2 hours before the boiler could make steam again. I love stories like that. Real experiences from the guys who were there.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Great information Pete.
I intended to have track pans back when I was a Pennsy modeler, but never got that far. I remember reading an article, probably in Trains, that told about the time a crew found a hobo (dead) totally encased in ice when he rode on the back of a tender that had had a major overflow after using a track pan at speed.
Dave Nelson
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Hi All,
I have modeled some short track pans on my layout. I have piping and a shack installed with day signal boards. I'm not really happy with the pans themselves but they work for now. I got most of my info from the link below that a friend sent me.
http://jimquest.com/writ/trains/pans/scoop.htm
Curt Webb
The Late Great Pennsylvania Railroad
http://s1082.photobucket.com/albums/j372/curtwbb/
Our friends across the pond used track pans extensively. Some early BR passenger diesels actually had scoops - to replenish water for train-heat boilers.
There were track pans in Ontario, too, on Canada Southern's (NYC) line between Windsor and Welland.
Wayne
Hi,
I've read of track pans since my Lionel days of the '50s. I assumed they were more likely to be found on the northeast roads, especially the PRR and NYC. I do know that photographers loved them for locos hitting them at speed made for a terrific picture or movie.
I gotta say, whoever controlled the loco's scoop had to really be on the ball. Imagine the mess if they didn't pull it up in time.
Actually, while writing this, a couple questions came to mind.......... did these pans freeze over? Were they somehow heated?
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
mobilman44 .....whoever controlled the loco's scoop had to really be on the ball. Imagine the mess if they didn't pull it up in time. Actually, while writing this, a couple questions came to mind.......... did these pans freeze over? Were they somehow heated?
.....whoever controlled the loco's scoop had to really be on the ball. Imagine the mess if they didn't pull it up in time.
Your questions prompted me to look up a couple of articles which I had copied out of Trains magazine. The first, from the May 1993 issue, contains a lot of info on track pan history and useage. Developed in England, the first North American installation was on the NYC&HRRR, in 1870. Pennsy followed later the same year with their own. Other roads employing track pans included Maine Central, Reading, Jersey Central, B&O, New York & Long Branch, New York & New England, Chicago, Milwaukee & St. Paul, and Lake Shore & Michigan Southern. The only Canadian installations were five on the Michigan Central (NYC) line between Detroit and Buffalo, which I mentioned previously.
Yes, the track pans were heated, by live steam injected at intervals, while some roads heated the water and recirculated it. Steam and/or hot water lines also ran parallel to each track to melt away ice formed by the spray created when scooping water. Some scoops had steam from the loco applied to them, to keep the mechanism from freezing.Early track pans were up to 1200' long and, by the '40s, were usually 1500' to 2500' long. The longest in North America was Pennsy's installation at Wilmore, Pa., at 2685' .By the late '30s, the NYC was able to scoop water at a rate of three gallons per foot at speeds of up to 80 mph.
As for controlling the scoop, early mechanical ones were dangerous to operate, with the handle sometimes kicking back. The track pans, usually welded or riveted steel plate, were ramped on each end with thicker steel to prevent collision with a scoop lowered too early or raised too late. The ramp would guide the scoop into its "up" position, but if it wasn't secured by the fireman, it could drop again.
This leads to the second article, in the July, 1979 issue of Trains. It tells the story of a westbound Mohawk which scooped water but whose scoop failed to fully retract. At a speed of about 38mph, the scoop scarred ties beyond the pans, then ripped through the 4"x8" planks of two grade crossings. One of the planks struck the switch rod of a facing-point siding turnout, opening the switch and derailing the rear truck of the tender and 17 trailing cars. The ninth car fouled the eastward main.Unfortunately, approaching on that track, at 79mph, was the Advance Commodore Vanderbilt, which struck the car at 65mph. The loco, a 4-8-4 Niagara, ended-up lying on her side in a field, 406' from the point of impact. Ten of the following 15 passenger cars derailed, resulting in injuries to 39 but no fatalities.The line was closed for 2 1/2 days, as company wreckers were unable to lift the 471,000lb. locomotive, necessitating the lease of big hooks from GTW, Pere Marquette, and Santa Fe. The investigation revealed a crossing plank and a tie inside the Mohawk's tank.