I found this track plan to be inspirational.http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2010/10/Allegheny%20Midland.aspx
dbwv69 Here is a link to the image at the The Allegheny Midland Historical Society, who does have permission to display the image according to their website. The version I am playing with has a peninsula (not shown here) that was shown as a caption in the original MRR issue.(Image deleted for copyright violation)And here it is as shown in the Track Plan Database. For some strange reason it actually let me view this plan without encountering the dreaded MR+ (Subscriber Only Content) wall, which isn't always the case. Curiously, the version with the peninsula is absent from the Track Plan Database.http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2010/10/Allegheny%20Midland.aspx BTW: Tony Koester has came closer to capturing the "spirit" of the Appalachian Coal fields in a model railroad than anyone I have ever seen. IMHO
Here is a link to the image at the The Allegheny Midland Historical Society, who does have permission to display the image according to their website. The version I am playing with has a peninsula (not shown here) that was shown as a caption in the original MRR issue.(Image deleted for copyright violation)And here it is as shown in the Track Plan Database. For some strange reason it actually let me view this plan without encountering the dreaded MR+ (Subscriber Only Content) wall, which isn't always the case. Curiously, the version with the peninsula is absent from the Track Plan Database.http://mrr.trains.com/How%20To/Track%20Plan%20Database/2010/10/Allegheny%20Midland.aspx
BTW: Tony Koester has came closer to capturing the "spirit" of the Appalachian Coal fields in a model railroad than anyone I have ever seen. IMHO
Great, now we are getting somewhere. We are actually starting to discussing what features you would like to have in a layout.
What elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a 6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout?
For instance, on that drawing you have the comment grid is 12' - counting squares the Low Gap mine area at the left is about 2 feet x 10 feet long - bit it can of course be made longer or shorter as needed.
The distance from the left end of Low Gap to just to the right of Coal Fork is another 10-12 feet.
So you could come up wth a track plan by drawing Low Gap on one scene on one side of the table, wrap around the end curve to Coal Fork on the other side, and then have a connection between the Otter Creek Sub at Low Gap and the mainline (heavy line) at Coal Fork on the other end of both scenes for continuous running.
You would maybe have to make some tracks a little shorter, but that is not a huge modification, and not model the coal mines and yards at Coal Fork due to lack of space. Of course - if you have loads of space, you could always just take that track to the edge of the layout and later make an extension (or a cassette or something) representing the Harper Run Subdivision.
Smile, Stein
P.S: Btw - when describing what you like about a published plan, you do not have to post a photo of the original plan and violate copyright - you can simply describe it - in the case above e.g. as "I really like the junction called Coal Fork on Tony Koester's Coal Fork Extension layout plan from Model Railroader no such-and-such".
steinjrP.S: Btw - when describing what you like about a published plan, you do not have to post a photo of the original plan and violate copyright - you can simply describe it - in the case above e.g. as "I really like the junction called Coal Fork on Tony Koester's Coal Fork Extension layout plan from Model Railroader no such-and-such".
I am working on a response to the rest of your post but in the mean time...
My understanding is that posting a link to an image is not a violation of copyright but I defer to the judgement of the moderators on that one. The track plan is freely available (Non MR+) on the Track Plan Database so I saw no harm in posting a link to it.
Otherwise, I tried doing exactly as you suggest many times in other posts and it didn't seem to do any good. People either didn't see it or ignored it but I have no way of knowing for sure.
This quote (or something to that effect) is what I said:
"Inspiration:The 6 part series, in the June to November 1998 issues of Model Railroader, about the Coal Fork extension of the Allegheny Midland by Tony Koester."
steinjrWhat elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a 6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout?
My plan is for a 6'x12' layout. Accessibility has already been tested using a full scale mockup and no problems were noted that could not be easily mitigated.
I've done most, if not all, of what you suggest but it still isn't quite "right". Specifically, I'd like to include some or all of the following elements for a continuous loop mainline (as previously mentioned).
Miscellaneous Scenes:1. Bridge(s)2. Tunnel3. Company store(s)4. Company homes
Industry Scenes:1. Freight terminal2. Coal Mine w/truck dump
dbwv69 steinjr: What elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a 6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout? My plan is for a 6'x12' layout. Accessibility has already been tested using a full scale mockup and no problems were noted that could not be easily mitigated. I've done most, if not all, of what you suggest but it still isn't quite "right". Specifically, I'd like to include some or all of the following elements for a continuous loop mainline (as previously mentioned). Miscellaneous Scenes:1. Bridge(s)2. Tunnel3. Company store(s)4. Company homes Industry Scenes:1. Freight terminal2. Coal Mine w/truck dump
steinjr: What elements of the Tony Koester Coal Fork Extension plan above is it that you want like to incorporate in a 6 x 12 (or possibly 5 x 12, to make reaching into the layout easier) layout?
Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table?
Byw - I wasn't implying that you were committing copyright infraction with that picture. I was telling you that you can describe something you like, even if you cannot post a picture of the original plan.
steinjr Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table?
That is yet to be determined.
steinjrByw - I wasn't implying that you were committing copyright infraction with that picture. I was telling you that you can describe something you like, even if you cannot post a picture of the original plan.
Describing it didn't seem to work so I thought a picture might do the trick. Like they say, a picture speaks a thousand words.
dbwv69 steinjr: Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table? That is yet to be determined.
steinjr: Which parts of this can you not work into a plan based on wrapping the leftmost 20 feet or so of the Coal Fork extension around a 5 x 12 foot (or 6 x 12 foot) table with a vertical backboard down the spine of the table?
Seems quite easy to me.The plan already have company houses, company store and a freight terminal at Coal Fork.
Straighten/curve lightly mine tracks at Low Gap up instead of down. Put the connection between the left end of Low Gap and Coal Fork in a tunnel - gives you one tunnel entrance in each scene.
Replace the coal loader with truck loading or add a truck loading to the foreground or background on the Low Gap scene - you will have between 6 and 12" of extra depth if you go 5 or 6 feet of depth totally and split it into two scenes each 12 x 2 1/2 feet or 12 x 3 feet, compared to the 2 foot depth of Tony's design.
Bridge section will be other connecting curve between Low Gap and Coal Junction - if you go to 6 feet of width, you have room for a straight part with a bridge without getting an excessively sharp radius curve here.
So let me repeat the question - what is it that makes it so dang hard to just wrap these two scenes (or something similar to or adapted from these two scenes) around the outside of a 6 x 12 foot table?
dbwv69 My plan is for a 6'x12' layout. Accessibility has already been tested using a full scale mockup and no problems were noted that could not be easily mitigated. I've done most, if not all, of what you suggest but it still isn't quite "right". Specifically, I'd like to include some or all of the following elements for a continuous loop mainline (as previously mentioned). Miscellaneous Scenes:1. Bridge(s)2. Tunnel3. Company store(s)4. Company homes Industry Scenes:1. Freight terminal2. Coal Mine w/truck dump
I agree with you that in a walkaround layout, if you can access all four sides, then a 6' x 12' surface should be reachable, particularly if the deepest interior points contain no track or at least contain no turnouts or sharp curves.
You implied that you have already scoped out the various elements of your contemplated layout. Even a crude drawing would help us to help you with the Miscellaneous Scenes and the Industry Scenes. Any way you can supply that in a simple diagram showing track configuration and structure placement. Even if you are not entirely happy with it, it will help us visualize your thoughts on this contemplated layout.
Rich
Alton Junction
hi
drawn with 24" radii and #6 switches.
But,............... i would build the try-out on rather shallow shelves, 18" or 24" wide max. So it will be a lot easier to incorporate these sections into a later grand design.
Good luck and keep smiling
Paul
Paulus Jas hi drawn with 24" radii and #6 switches. But,............... i would build the try-out on rather shallow shelves, 18" or 24" wide max. So it will be a lot easier to incorporate these sections into a later grand design. Good luck and keep smiling Paul
Thanks for creating the plan.
showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking.
Paulus Jas showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking. Paul
No, life isn't just about taking but to tell you the truth, I don't know what to think right now.
OK looks like we are seeing some progress here. So we are going for basicaly the layout you posted the pic of earlier and then make that a loop to give the continous running. This is simple really if you just bend the layout around and link one end to the other. You may have to add a switch or 2 to make it all work right but I can see it very doable with your space requirements. The next thing to ask is are you going to make it a doughnut or island. It appears that you can do either and pull it off nice.
Massey
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Track planning can be a rewarding, but also a cumbersome task, especially when you get stuck in a analysis-paralysis rut.
You are a lucky guy! You have Paul and Stein helping you - both are adept track planners and really helpful people.
Paul´s design is a good starter - avery well thought of plan. Why don´t you take that as a basis and get started? Changes will come along construction and this is a good place to discuss them.
Have fun!
A reasonably simple thing to do would be to buy (or scrounge) 4 hollow core doors - say each @32"x80" or 36" x 80", if that is a convenient size. Would give you a layout that is 13' 4" long and 5' 4" wide or 13' 4" long and 6 feet wide.
Make a simple section frame with legs that can be put under it - or four sets of legs - one for each door, locking the HCDs together using snaps along the outer edges - the door is rigid enough on it's own for layout framework - you just need to get it up to a convenient height.
Btw - I also had drawn up a quick concept sketch like Paul's - it worked out pretty much in the same way as his sketch:
Anyways - now it is time for our new friend to tyhink about what he likes and don't like about these ideas, what he would replace and whether he would prefer to take things in other directions.
We know that you are excellent at making drawings and sketches - show us some scenes - some ideas, some likes and dislikes :-)
Smile,Stein
dbwv69 Paulus Jas: showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking. Paul No, life isn't just about taking but to tell you the truth, I don't know what to think right now.
Paulus Jas: showing a little bit more of what you are really thinking would be appreciated; life is not just taking. Paul
You say that you don't know what to think right now. Why not? You asked for ideas and track plans, and you got them. Why not start drawing up some ideas or, better yet, start laying track on the floor if that's what it takes. This seems to be a recurring theme in all of your threads - - paralysis by analysis.
Right now, I have a large layout in my basement, my fourth layout. I love it. But, I am thinking of change. On my dining room table, I have grid paper spread out all over the place as I draw and redraw possible track plans and structure placements.
I think that we all agree that you need to get inspired. So, get inspired! Start drawing. Start laying track.
LION says: "Lay tracks first... Change them later!"
It sounds flipant or counter productive, but it is the way that I have built my railroads.
My present railroad started in concept as a two level commuter railroad, with a third lower level for staging. Since then inexpensive plastic subway cars became available and the railroad began to morph.
One of the first things was the heavy grades that a pair of locomotives pulling a nine car train could mount with ease were impossible for a six car subway train with only one motor car: I had to pull ot some track and install not one but three helices.
But now with no need for a lower level staging area, I am pulling all of that out again, and have built a new four track helix and the lowest level will have a four track main line: but this is ok, I *like* laying track and wiring layouts!
Bottom line is: ITS RUNNING! *and* I am having fun with it.
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
Thank you for the suggestions and ideas. They are very helpful and I appreciate them all, even the constructive criticism.I'm just suffering from a creative block but it will eventually pass, it always does. In the mean time, I'm going to continue working on the train room while waiting for inspirational lightning to strike. Speaking of the train room, I made a lot of progress last night and using the sledge hammer was a great way to work off some frustration but now I have to clean up the rather sizeable mess I made.In addition, I've decided to create a blog (Wordpress, Blogger, or ???) or a website, as it will enable me to keep everything in one location, under my control, without the need to post to multiple forums, which has become rather tedious and repetitive. I take this project very seriously and intend to see it through to the end, whatever end that may ultimately be. When the mood strikes, I can be a rather prolific writer/creator so it seems like the best move to make. I can post whatever I like, whenever I like, all completely uncensored.Don't get me wrong, I will continue to post to various forums but it will mostly responding to threads, as opposed to creating threads of my own.BTW: I noticed that the copyright police came to town and deleted the link to the track plan I posted. As a result, I've decided to be more cautious about what I post. I guess they never heard of fair use doctrine. And since the whole copyright issue has arisen.. Legally, I feel it's necessary to remind Kalmbach that my images are copyrighted by me.
Sounds like you are making progress with your train room.
Good luck with your blog.
OK I guess this thread is not locked... I thought it was. Anyway I posted a couple of ideas on your other thread you may want to take a look at. It will give you some ideas about benchwork (what I posted is very strudy and lightweight) and I linked a track plan that can be used as point to point and continueous loop.
I dont know what you are talking about with the copyright stuff... The linky is still there and it works too. Fair use applies here as you know. You are not claiming ownership or using it for comercial use. You are also not gaining profit from said track plan so you have done nothing wrong.