Probably a simple question, but I'd appreciate some insight prior to trying to glue down ballast on my layout. I've read that people here mix glue/water and spray it to hold the ballast in place. This makes sense, but what is the ratio of glue to water I should use?
And are the rails easy to clean off afterwards?
Other hints / warnings would be appreciated.
Thanks.
Oh boy, you would do well to search the forums for "ballast", "white glue" and "matte medium".
This topic has been covered 100 times before.
Lots of different answers but the most predominant are as follows.
The ratio of glue to water can be 1:1. 1:2, or 1:4 depending upon who you ask. I use a 1:4 glue to water mix.
Some use white glue, others use matte medium. I use matte medium. It is quieter when dry and more flexible, less brittle. Some agree, some disagree.
Before applying the glue mix, spray your ballast with "wet water" which is tap water with a few drops of liquid dish detergent. Or, alternatively, spray rubbing alcohol. Either way, either method, the idea is to prepare the ballast to avoid having the glue mix pool, leaving gulleys in the ballast. The ballast will better absorb the glue mix if sprayed first with wet water or rubbing alcohol.
Once the glue mix is applied and dried, it is neither easy nor difficult to remove it. You need to soak the track in warm soapy water to loosen the glue. Then, it can be removed with a little care and patience.
Rich
Alton Junction
Rich is correct for Matte Medium: 1:4 dilution. I believe I'm using Scenic Express.
Don't spray the glue on the ballast.
Spray water with a couple drops of dish detergent on the ballast .
Mix 50-50 water and glue in a squeeze bottle and then dribble the glue mix onto the ballast.
That way you don't spray glue everywhere, it only goes on the ballast not the rails.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
I agree with the above post, don't spray the glue on your ballast, dribble it on. I use an old 4 oz Elmers glue bottle with the adjustable tip. I can put it on very slowly, where needed. I have one for my wet water too. Makes it so if I am working close to things I don't want to get wet or glued on I have good control.
Spraying does work very well when doing large expanses of scenery that is not close to sensetive areas.
Have fun,
Richard
I agree: don't spray the glue mixture. You not only waste a lot of glue but it ends up in places it shouldn't. Another drawback is that for all but the least amount of ballast or ground cover, it doesn't apply enough of the glue mixture - it's easier and faster using an applicator as mentioned above.
Wayne
Agreed. Why would you want to spray glue on tracks while ballasting and then have to remove it from the track to get contact? Seems like an extra amount of work when dribbling glue only where you need it is not that difficult, just takes a steady hand.
I spray 70% alcohol on the ballast so that the cement or glue soaks in and doesn't bead up on the surface. But to actually apply the Scenic Cement or matte medium, I use a small eye dropper -- and Cody Grivno's demonstrations usually involve a pipette such as you find in a science or surplus store.
I tried spraying the cement from a sprayer and just did not get the concentration of cement I needed. And it wasted a lot. And the cleanup of the sprayer was a bother.
I also tried -- and am unlikely to try again -- the idea of mixing dried powdered glue in with my ballast and spray the entire thing wet with a water or alcohol spray. The idea is that the glue is integral to the ballast. The reality was that evidently I was too stingey with the glue and the stuff just crumbled when it dried. The idea may have merit -- and at least has the virtue that the sprayer needs no special clean up
Dave Nelson
dknelson II also tried -- and am unlikely to try again -- the idea of mixing dried powdered glue in with my ballast and spray the entire thing wet with a water or alcohol spray. The idea is that the glue is integral to the ballast. The reality was that evidently I was too stingey with the glue and the stuff just crumbled when it dried. The idea may have merit -- and at least has the virtue that the sprayer needs no special clean up
II also tried -- and am unlikely to try again -- the idea of mixing dried powdered glue in with my ballast and spray the entire thing wet with a water or alcohol spray. The idea is that the glue is integral to the ballast. The reality was that evidently I was too stingey with the glue and the stuff just crumbled when it dried. The idea may have merit -- and at least has the virtue that the sprayer needs no special clean up
I tried powdered glue also and was unhappy with the results, very uneven effect.
I used the spray water/dropper glue on both ballast and scenery.
I had a module that I drove to shows in the bed of a pickup truck, uncovered at 75 mph down the interstate and never lost any ballast or ground cover.
I don't spray anything. It is hard to direct, and you end up with too much or too little, plus a mess outside of the area you are trying to ballast. The force of the spray tends to dislodge the ballast, too.
Instead, I use a pipette (hobby-shop eyedropper) filled with alcohol straight from the bottle, and I apply a 1:4 glue-to-water mix using an Elmers bottle, just like Doctor Wayne is doing a couple of posts up. No mess, no waste. I suppose I could thin the alcohol, but it's cheap enough that it isn't even worth the extra step of mixing into another container. Besides, by using full-strength alcohol, it greatly speeds up the drying process as opposed to the more traditional dish-soap-in-water wetting agent. The glue flows better, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I mix four parts water to one part matte medium and add two drops of dishwashing liquid per cup of solution. After mixing, I let the solids settle out and decant the liquid. I've been told that the solids are starches and talc; not sure which, but they don't add anything to the adhesive properties of the mixture.
I too use an old glue bottle to dribble the mixture on to the ballast (or ground cover for that matter). I mist the area with wet water or 35% rubbing alcohol (the 70% stuff you buy in the store diluted 50%). Rather than spray AT the ballast or ground cover, I spray above it and let the mist drift down onto it, making sure it's good and saturated before moving on to the adhesive. While the water or alcohol won't really hurt anything on the layout, I use old cereal boxes to protect areas I don't want to get wet.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
The best thing I have ever used to apply diluted white glue was the bottle my contact solution comes in. It has the perfect size hole for applying it. You can direct the stream anywhere you want and apply it gently or full force...and it doesn't "dribble". Just my 2 cents....Tim
A true friend will not bail you out of jail...he will be sitting next to you saying "that was friggin awesome dude!" Tim...Modeling the NYC...is there any other?
The ONLY time I sprayed the glue/water mixture was when doing large areas of scenery, and that was if there was no track, especially turnouts, nearby. I use those translucent condiment bottles to apply my ballast glue.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I use the "dribble" method myself, don't spray, especially near your switches, if you do you will probably glue the turnout in one position and there is the issue of trying to clean it so you can get a good contact again after coating all the points in glue. ( found out the hard way on my first layout I did ) I use 1:4 ratio of water/glue. Hope this helps.
You can use cheap unscented (pump) hairspray with an eyedropper and avoid all of the above mixes. It works well and dries hard. I use it on ground foam as well. The size of your layout might be a cost factor as mine is not that big. I also use very small sand on my HO layout.
Just an alternative to the above method.
Dennis
Jazman49 You can use cheap unscented (pump) hairspray with an eyedropper and avoid all of the above mixes. It works well and dries hard. I use it on ground foam as well. The size of your layout might be a cost factor as mine is not that big. I also use very small sand on my HO layout. Just an alternative to the above method. Dennis
Not shiny at all. I soak the area, let it dry, check for hardness.
Jazman49 Not shiny at all. I soak the area, let it dry, check for hardness. Dennis
I just find the cheapest (max hold) I can find. Usually around a $1.
Please post on how it turned out for everyone's benefit.
I use cheap hairspray for trees, and it would probably work for thin layers of ground cover, too, but I can't see it penetrating far enough into ballast to form more than a hardened crust (the same as when used on hair ).
For deep ballast or ground cover, you'd need to do multiple applications of both the scenic material and hairspray in order to get a good bond that would stand up over time. Scenes like the ones below can be done in one operation using white glue or matte medium, and with much greater economy than hairspray.
Jazman49 I just find the cheapest (max hold) I can find. Usually around a $1. Please post on how it turned out for everyone's benefit. Dennis
Ray