I'm going to be using a few Tortoise machines for some new turnouts I'm installing. I use 2-inch foam for my layout base, so I'll need to replace the supplied spring wire that drives the points with something longer.
What kind and size of wire do you use for this, for those who have mounted these on 2-inch foam? Where did you find the wire?
Any other suggestions for mounting the Tortoise, etc.? Any warnings? Thanks.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
I have a couple of them that needed a longer wire. I used .025 piano wire that I got at the local Ace Hardware. These were through 1 1/2 in of plywood. I was able to use screws to mount them. I have read about mounting the machines with velcro, but haven't tried it.I think it was in one of the Model Railroaders a while back.
Phil, CEO, Eastern Sierra Pacific Railroad. We know where you are going, before you do!
You may want to check Product Reviews (I saw one for Blue Point in the 2010 On30 Annual) It says to use .040 wire if you are using it for scales larger than HO, or if you are going thru more than 1 1/2 inch structure. Hope this helps
I have a couple of tortoises which sit on top of 4" foam and 1/2 inch plywood. I used .35 piano wire. Just google up piano wire and you'll find plenty of places that sell it. You will have to make the hole a little bigger than normal to allow for the greater distance.
When installing the tortoise I used 2 sided tape to hold the machine under the layout while getting everything in the correct position. Then I used screws to hold it in place.
Dave
'there's something happening here, what it is ain't exactly clear' Modeling the Hard Knox Valley Railroad in HO scale http://photos.hardknoxvalley.com/
MisterBeasley I'm going to be using a few Tortoise machines for some new turnouts I'm installing. I use 2-inch foam for my layout base, so I'll need to replace the supplied spring wire that drives the points with something longer. What kind and size of wire do you use for this, for those who have mounted these on 2-inch foam? Where did you find the wire? Any other suggestions for mounting the Tortoise, etc.? Any warnings? Thanks.
I have 54 Tortoises on my layout and every one has .040 piano wire replacing the wire that comes in the box. No failures, no mishaps, no servicing required. There is a lot of leeway provided when installing the Tortoise so precision, while useful, is not critical.
Wire the Tortoise with drop feeder wires on the bench before installing. It will make your life easier.
Also, I wedge a piece of styrene plastic strip on between each stock rail and the switch point rails to center the alignment before I go under the layout to install the Tortoise. And another thing, manually center the Tortoise level with the piano wire attached so that once you are under the layout, installation is simpler.
Rich
Alton Junction
The manufacturer would do us all a favor by not providing any piano wire rather than one of a suitable size. I have yet to successfully install a Tortoise machine using the wire supplied so ended up using larger-diameter wires in all applications.
Mark
.032 music wire, it can be had any where they sell R/C stuff. You will need to drill out the end of the Tortoise as well as the fulcrum slightly to accept the larger wire. How ever some say that by using a lighter wire it helps keep tension on the throw bar keeping the points in place. I disagree as I adjust all my turtles ever so slightly by adjusting the position of the fulcrum and all 166 turnouts work just fine.
Hi, I suppose I'm in love with the old "piano-wire-in-the-tube" method. Have you thought about trying it? Having the switch motor push/pull the fine wire thru the tube is great where the motor is in a difficult spot. I use brass tubing of about 1/16" diam. It can be curved a bit for alignment. My longest to date is about 15", but see no reason it couldn't be a lot more. The limit will likely be the stiffness of the wire and how much sloppiness you can acommodate in the tube. Nothing like having the motor where I can reach it. Bury the tube near the surface of your scenery material, and the actuating hook under the turnout need not be very long.
Have fun, George
I have about 15 Tortise machines and they all use .039" wire from the local hobby shop; it is used in model planes so it is readily available and cheap. You will have to drill out the holes in the throwbar on some brands of turnouts and also on the Tortise machine itself; not much of a job though.
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
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You've gotten good advice. One word of amplification on richhotrain's suggestion that you manually center the Tortoise. Center it, yes. Manually, no. Move it under power to the center position. Circuitron advises that moving it manually can damage it and void the warranty. Richhotrain: Apologies if I interpreted your suggestion too literally--but better safe than sorry!
I use .032” wire to penetrate 1/2" subroadbed and either cork roadbed (mainline) or 1/2" homosote (spurs and yard); the hole in the actuator hub drills out easily with #61 pin vise. I also assure the initial wire bend is 3/16” long and 90 degrees to the vertical after the second 15-degree bend. This assures max penetration of the receiving hole and an minimum chance the wire will pop out after installation. The key word here is “assures.”
One word of caution when you're trimming the actuator wire at the turnout after installation--I used a Dremel to grind it to length, and the vibration passing through the wire caused it to pop out of the hole. That Tortoise was danger-close to a riser, and the wire was not fun to reinstall. Thereafter, I secured the wire with my free hand or masking tape while I was grinding it to size.
After tapping the hole with the set screw, I don’t remove it completely as Circuitron suggests but rather back it out to, say, 80%, just far enough to permit me to insert the actuator wire. I then tighten it per instructions, securing the hub with my free hand. I do this on the bench and install the Tortoise with the wire installed and centered, per above.
As another poster stated, the Tortoise is forgiving, so you don't need to be overly precise. But I wanted to be as precise as possible, and orienting the machine to the turnout is important, IMHO. So I transferred the Tortoise template to shirt cardboard, punching only the hole for the actuator wire. This gave me a square equal to the Tortoise’s footprint. I then placed the square on top of the turnout, anchored by a wire through the hole and the throw bar, assuring the points are centered and the template is aligned with the turnout’s linear direction. I then drill (1) 1/16 hole through the subroadbed at each of the template’s rear corners. When I drop underneath and connect the holes with a pencil line, this provides the baseline to assure the Tortoise is square to the turnout. Mark the 1 1/4” center of this line to designate the actuator-wire position.
I just use (2) screws for the Tortoise, positioned at diagonal corners. That gives me a fallback in case I have to reposition the machine. After I confirm proper operation and tighten the screws completely, I secure the machine with a thin bead of latex caulk on the (2) most accessible edges and conclude.
Rick Krall
fkrall You've gotten good advice. One word of amplification on richhotrain's suggestion that you manually center the Tortoise. Center it, yes. Manually, no. Move it under power to the center position. Circuitron advises that moving it manually can damage it and void the warranty. Richhotrain: Apologies if I interpreted your suggestion too literally--but better safe than sorry! Rick Krall
Rick,
No apologies necessary. I never want to give back advice, so I am always willing to stand corrected.
Regarding the manual movement of the Tortoise throwbar, I want to clarify one thing about what I do in order to adjust the centering of the throwbar. Usually, when I first remove a Tortoise from its box, the throwbar is slightly off center, so I simply move it (gently) into the center position with my finger. This movement is no more than one quarter of an inch.
I sure wouldn't want to violate the Circuitron warranty or advice someone else to do so. After I read your post, I went back and re-read the Tortoise installation instructions. These instructions read in part, "Do not try to move the throwbar by hand except with extreme care. Damage to the gears may result".
So, probably prudent to only move the throwbar under power not manually.
Thanks again, team. Lowes didn't have the wire, so I'll try my Local Hardware Store over the weekend. Thanks for the suggestion about the R/C shops - there's one of those around, too, so if I can't find it at a hardware store I've got another option.
One thing I've learned by experience is to bench test stuff before installation. So, I'll apply power to each and every Tortoise before it ever goes on the layout. Besides, this is "new technology" to me, so I have to play with it and study it first, anyway.
How about mounting the Tortoises to the underside of the layout? Right now, I'm planning to cut a square of Masonite and glue that to the underside of the foam. Then I'll attach the Tortoise to the Masonite with screws and glue after the Masonite is solidly in place. Will that work? Would 1/4 inch plywood be better than Masonite?
Every single one installed on my previous layout used the supplied wire, with zero problems. But then I installed them from the top of the foam, so the distance between the top of the Tortoise and the throwbar was the thickness of the roadbed plus 1/16" perfboard.
How thick a pece of wire you need depends on the turnouts - I use Atlas which move very freely. Peco turnouts with the springs left in and handlaid all-rail turnouts (non-hinged points) will need stiffer wire to impart more force. I'm using .032 through 4 inches of foam and there's plenty of force on the Atlas throwbars to snap the points against the stock rail, although I am also using RC servos instead of Tortoises this time.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
One thing I forgot, MisterBeasley--be sure to make your actuator-wire hole larger rather than smaller. I can't recall but might have upped it to 3/8, rather than the 1/4 specified in the instructions. The wire will move at an angle, not vertically as with Pecos, and mine were binding on the edge of the holes. Unfortunately, I found this out after I'd mounted the turnouts and had to correct it from underneath, through the subroadbed with a Dremel--not fun!
fkrall One thing I forgot, MisterBeasley--be sure to make your actuator-wire hole larger rather than smaller. I can't recall but might have upped it to 3/8, rather than the 1/4 specified in the instructions. The wire will move at an angle, not vertically as with Pecos, and mine were binding on the edge of the holes. Unfortunately, I found this out after I'd mounted the turnouts and had to correct it from underneath, through the subroadbed with a Dremel--not fun! Rick Krall
I mount my Tortoise on the underside of the 1/2 inch plywood base that is the base of my layout. I drill a 5/8 inch diameter hole to give the wire plenty of room for lateral movement.
MisterBeasleyHow about mounting the Tortoises to the underside of the layout? Right now, I'm planning to cut a square of Masonite and glue that to the underside of the foam. Then I'll attach the Tortoise to the Masonite with screws and glue after the Masonite is solidly in place. Will that work? Would 1/4 inch plywood be better than Masonite?
Hi Mr. B.
Before you go any further, use the scroll function to the right and put in "mounting tortoises with velcro"
This will give you another option.
Johnboy out....................for now
from Saskatchewan, in the Great White North..
We have met the enemy, and he is us............ (Pogo)
I used hot glue on mine under the layout and used .039 music wire acquired from the LHS that carries RC cars and planes. The supplied .025 was too flimsy for the 4 inch foam.
Springfield PA
FYI - inside of a Tortoise:
"don't center manually, use power": the gears can rise up and jam
electrical contacts:
I use the drilling template from Circuitron to locate screw holes, use larger .039" wire, use a 3/8" tube thru roadbed, and now solder all wires (too many edge connector shorts).
Terry
Sorry I got off the "wire" topic, but here's another picture.
On the bottom it shows (from left #1 to #10) which contacts close depending on the throw location. I refer to this picture a lot.
Thanks for the pics. I wouldn't have wanted to open up a perfectly good Tortoise just to see what was inside, but of course I'm curious about what they look like.
The wiring diagram is nice, but the text is poorly resolved. I tried looking at the link directly, and even copied it so I could zoom in, but there aren't enough pixels to get good resolution on the text.
I use .039" piano wire. I bend the wire so that it wraps around the screw of the tortoise. I don't bother with the hole in the actuator. The front view below shows how I bend the wire. I use my needle nose pliers to bend the wire and a pair of dikes to trim the wire of after installing the switch machine. I use template included in the instructions to mount the machine. I have cut out the template and mounted it to a piece of 1/4" luan plywood and have a 5/16" dowel sticking out of it. I use a 5/16" drill bit to drill the holes below all my turnouts. This makes for very good alignments of the switch machines with the turnouts.
Colorado Front Range Railroad: http://www.coloradofrontrangerr.com/