I've been thinking of giving Code 83 a try, but I would rather glue it down since that seems to be what its designed for, with the punch out holes on the underside of the track, I would rather keep the the track uniform.
Which is better for operation, glueing or using rail spikes?
How do I glue down my track exactly? What about keeping the curves exact, or even the straights for that mattter? I am afraid of getting the zig zag effect on the straight aways. What glue do I use and how long does it set for? Do I weigh the track down with anything while it dries?
I use carpenters glue for the tracks. And I use some weight.
Here at my Diamond Valley. BTW, the white stuff is the glue.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Whether you use nails or glue it makes no difference to operation. If you change you mind a lot it makes a difference because nails are easier to change. With glue you have to watch switches.
A lot of people use latex adhesive caulk in tubes for holding track down (NOT silicone). Spread a thin layer on the roadbed and put the track on it. You want just enough to hold it in place, but not enough that it bulges up between the ties. You can hold the track in place with push pins until the caulk sets.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
jake -
For N scale, I used BOTH (yes, at the same time). The only issue with nails is that the aren't exactly prototypically accurate. Doesn't bother me that much. Alignment techniques should be the same with either. While the weights are the std method of holding the track down while the glue cures, nails or foam pins can be used, depending on what your base is made of.
Archer
I've always used spikes along the rails. Using glue to me sounds like trying to do plumbing when the shut-off valve can't be closed all the way. (Don't ask me about my weekend.) Still, lots of people seem to use an adhesive successfully.
Mark
Obviously both methods work and have their strong points and disadvantages. Many object to caulking because you probably ruin the track if you try to pull it up. Once you ballast your track, assuming bonded ballast using matte medium or Scenic Cement to hold the ballast, it is rather tough to change your mind without endangering the track regardless of method. In theory if the spike or track nail goes into the benchwork itself that might create more noise but this can be hard to quantify.
I use the latex adhesive caulk method, spread quite thin -- almost a film -- using one of those annoying "Your name here" credit card mockups I got in the mail to spread out the bead of caulk. As a rule I have no need to weigh the track down during the process but a wood roller of the type wall paper hangers use does help to press the track evenly into the caulk. If you use little caulk it should not bead up much between the ties. I get the kind that comes out white and dries clear. While it is still "wet" I add ballast which I tamp down with an old piece of cork roadbed -- and complete the ballasting in a later process. If I do it just right I can get ballast right to the top of the ties between the rails on the first try., leaving the sides of the ties and roadbed for the second stage/
But even then I still use track nails when sometimes I have to "bully" the flex track into following the curve I want. Especially Atlas flex which seems to want to straighten itself. Once the caulk has set I can remove the nails so I tend not to drive them all the way in unless I sense tension against the caulk. Where I want very precise spiral easement curves I tend to need to spike or nail the track in place more often.
I use the caulk only at the extreme ends of a turnout, well away from the movable points. This can be a matter of trial and error, the turnout might float a bit before I add the ballast where i get closer to the points. Under the points themselves I might ballast with extreme caution, or slip an appropriately colored piece of sandpaper to simulate ballast under the points, or might even leave the ballast loose although i do not like to do that. Former MR editor Terry Thompson suggested using a commercial turnout with build in roadbed as one way to resolve the age old issue of ballasting around a turnout. I hvae not tried that but showed how it could be done for a local NMRA division clinic I gave on track.
Dave Nelson
Don't be so concerned with the holes left by track nails once you weather the track and ballast it the holes virtually disappear. Track nails are fine if your not 100% sure you want to keep the tracks in that location but if you only use track nails they eventually will loosen up that is unless you use extra long ones that go through your roadbed inot the sub roadbed and then it's inevitable you will smash a tie or two.
I spike my track to the Homabed roadbed which hold track nails very nicely until I am absolutely sure the track is exactly as I want it, then I remove it and put down a thin bead of DAP3.0 clear adhesive caulk and just put some weight on top of the track or place spikes back in . This stuff has a 3 minute set up time and works great.You need to take care when using it as it needs to be spread really thing I use a 1" putty knife.
Using yellow carpenters glue is also a very seasoned method of securing track and works excellently it just takes a lot longer to dry, which isn't always a bad thing..
If you use spikes on some parts, is there a specific shade of brown anybody can recommend to paint the spikes the same as the atlas code 83 tie color?
Also are Atlas code 83 switch machines factory painted brown?
Decisions, decisions....I really am tempted to sample half of my new layout with code 83 because I don't want to have to paint my code 100. At the same time, laying code 83 can be more tricky and I don't want my MTH engines to get finnicky with track work that is less than perfect. So far I haven't had a single derailment on my layout with code 100, if I painted the code 100, I would also have to paint the switch machines brown which sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
I used ot use nails "like everyone else" but then I tried the caulk method. I will never go back. The key is: cheap LATEX caulk, no need for that fancy silicone or half and half stuff. Spread THIN - if you draw a pencil line for the track centerline, you should be able to clearly see it under the caulk. I did that track AND roadbed for an 8x12 layotu with ONE tube. That's how little you need. I didn't have to put weights on the track, just pressed it in palce and at joints or the end of a section I held in in palce with soem pushpins (and reused the same pins on the next night of tracklaying). Same with curves, some pushpins kept the flex track from springing back to a straight line. There was plenty of time when the caulk was sticky yet not dry that I could sight down straight track and make sure it didn't wiggle - I had a metal straight edge I used to tap the track into a perfect line, but nothign beats going around to the edgne and using the eyeballs to verify it.
The caulk is by no means permanent. I changed my mind and removed a siding and crossover. Some caulk sticks to the ties, but if you followed the instructions and used a THIN bead, it's a paper-thin film that is easily rubbed off leaving the track good as new. On that layout I used Woodland Scenics foam roadbed on pink extruded foam, and pulling up the roadbed usually brought bits of the pink foam with it, I would not reuse the roadbed. Cork you could probably clean off like the track. Cork on wood would probably be easy to clean up and reuse.
The whole thing was painless, easy, fast, and cheap. So much so that I can't help but wonder why no one thought of this any sooner. I doubt I will ever go back to track nails.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
rjake4454 If you use spikes on some parts, is there a specific shade of brown anybody can recommend to paint the spikes the same as the atlas code 83 tie color?
Testor's/Floquil offers a set of three weathering color paint sticks in "track colors" and the rail brown and rail tie brown are both effective at hiding the top of the nail.
And a comment on Randy's post - avoid the silicone caulk not just because it costs more but because it has a slippery oily texture that is not ideal for this purpose. But I do think it is worth seeking out a latex adhesive caulk.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Don't be so concerned with the holes left by track nails once you weather the track and ballast it the holes virtually disappear.
Don't be so concerned with the holes left by track nails once you weather the track and ballast it the holes virtually disappear.
You know, you are absolutely right. I just tried nailing down some code 83 and after ballasting, I can't even notice the nails, thanks to my mixture of cinders. I won't even have to paint the nails.
Hi from Belgium,
I am not convinced about to glue track on roabed.
Since many years I use my own method to spike my Nscale code 55 track.
In fact my "spikes" are clothpins from which I cutoff the small head and keep only a lenght of an around half inch.
Be careful when cutting them because they are made of hard iron and the head fly often away!
I spike them trough the ties and often outside of the track. I push them with a pliers even in plain plywood, no problems; just do it slowly and keep your hand straight.
Just don't push them to far because you can damage the ties.
One other advantage is the fact you can lift the track (slowly) if you want to change the configuration of track before you ballast it.
Because the spins are so thin, they are invisible and they have no head.
I ballast the track with WS products glued with matte medium or a 50/50 white glue mix.
When dry nothing can move anymore.
Some pieces of track are laid this way on my Maclau River RR in Nscale since more than 20 years on my layout whithout any troubles.
I avoid to solder all the joint track and left some free for expansion and contraction of the track.
Marc
I really don't know what the difference is between caulk labeled 'latex' and caulk labeled 'latex adhesive' as I've found it ALL sticks - and more than just strong enough for track. I finished the second section of my benchwork and used some DAP latex caulk (didn;t say 'adhesive' in the name) to attach the two layers of pink foam. It has dried strong enough that I can lift the whole thing by just that top layer of foam and it doesn't pull apart (takes a while to dry because of the density of the foam - but so did the yellow glue I used on the other section). Time will tell, I guess.
I glue with tack glue. It dries quick, holds strong and is easy to remove with water.
Greg Amer
The Industrial Lead
I have used track nails and latex caulk. I have found that latex caulk is a much faster method of getting the track stuck down and is quicker getting the track up if you need to. Just run a scraper along underneath. The secret is to use a very thin coat. Track nails hold just fine, though for me I find it a slower process in both laying and tearing it up. You can use Beer cans to hold the track down while it dries. It is not a race though, so do whatever you most enjoy. I know that if I had more time I would be putting down hand laid track and making my own turnouts. My two young kids have the priority in the time department.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
When I started looking for caulk, it was real difficult finding latex acrylic adhesive caulk with no silicone that dries clear - the ideal caulk for model railroading. So I'll save you the trouble of searching:
Polyseamseal All-Purpose CLEAR Adhesive Caulk.Most major hardware stores have it, though my local Home Depot didn't have the clear variety, but I did find mine at Lowe's.
In addition to gluing down track, adhesive caulk has many other uses for model railroading:
- Gluing down cork or foam roadbed.
- Gluing down or together extruded styrofoam scenery in your layout.
- Gluing plaster/hydrocal rock molds to your scenery base.
- Gluing plaster-cast abutments, culverts or tunnel portals in your layout.
- Modeling waves, rapids or waterfalls
That's the exact brand I used. Home Depot USED to have it but no longer, it appears. Come out white, dries clear.
And another use, that actually worked when I tested it - gluing a Tortoise switch motor to the bototm of an otherwise all-foam layout. After cutting squares out and settign them in fromt he top, it hit me that the caulk ought to hold them to the foam, so I tried one, witht he idea of drilling a hole in the foam for the linkage just liek you would with a plywood base. The workign time made it easy to line up the Tortoise, although it did take a while before I was able to let go - best bet would be finding a length of wood to prop it up. Once the Tortoise could support its own weight without pulling off I left it go. Next mornign, it wasn't goign to budge. I finally was able to remove it by pushing HARD - and what actually came loose was a chunk of the foam, not the Tortoise/foam insterface. I concluded that with this method you could indeed mount a Tortoise just liek if you were using wood for the subroadbed - just no screws and no tricky alignment. Put some caulk on it and slide it around until aligned, then clamp in some manner for a half hour or so. Don't actually operate the Tortoise until the caulk has completely set. It's fixed for life.
I am building an N scale layout and I am using white latex caulk. It is easy to work with. It can hold down every bit of your track (not just where there the spike holes are placed).
Get the white or another colored latex caulk. I got the clear caulk, thinking it would look better, but it took 72 hrs according to the label to set up. Not bad I guess if you plan to move the track around. The white caulk I got, set up in about 2 hrs. Heck, I even have used it to glue down my switch machine.
I use dead batteries (the live ones will probably work too) as weights in areas that I need the track to lay down while the caulk is drying.
Another great thing with caulk is when I had an uneven transition or bump in the table (don't ask how this happened) is that the caulk can be used to smooth out the irregularies or dips in the roadbed. You will have to apply the caulk a little bit thicker than normal.
One more thing is that you need to put it on very thin, especially under the roadbed, or else you will get bumps and caulk running up through your edges between the cork. I learned this from laying many feet of roadbed with caulk.