The mysterious jumping ballast

[baron9]

 How frustrating can one part of the hobby get when we go to ballast our track.  I am careful to brush the ballast between the rails then use alittle bit of alcohol and water solution to set the ballast  and then a few minutes later it seems that the ballast has a mind of its own and starts to mulitply on the ties. Do I wait until it dries and then brush them off or is there another solution. You would think that someone would invent track thats already ballasted and ready to go.  Any thoughts?????

[jeffrey-wimberly]

If I feel inclined to do so I go back after the glue has dried and knock off the offending bits with a flat tip screwdriver. On my current layout I don't feel so inclined, so some of the ballast is still on top of the ties, just as it is on the real main line here.

[saronaterry]

Ballasting sucks. I also wait till it dries and go back and clean it up.

Terry

[loathar]

Just get it close enough to start and then go back and clean the ties and sides of the rails AFTER the glue has dried. A toothpick and small, stiff brush work good.
Some folks say the real rock ballast like Arizona Rock and Mineral is a lot easier to do than the Woodland Scenic type.

on ballasting sucks!!

[Blind Bruce]

Alcohol and water do not make ballast glue. Use a 50-50 mix of white glue and water dripped on the ballast with an eye dropper before the alcohol/water evaporates.

[dknelson]

 Another discussion on this forum

 http://cs.trains.com/forums/1384891/ShowPost.aspx

talked about the jumping ballast phenomenon and the conclusion seemed to be it was static electricty possibly caused by the brush.  Someone said rubbing the rails with one of those static cling sheet thingies you put in the dryer helps.  I no longer use a bristle brush for this task as it was flinging ballast around; I use one of those foam rubber pad type brushes, which fits nicely between the rails and acts more like a bulldozer.   And the index finger method advocated by Joe Fugate is also very effective.

The alcohol/water mix is to wet the ballast so the cement or glue gets down into the ballast.  Otherwise surface tension might make it just sit on the top so the ballast is not really cemented in place.  Some people use water and detergent or water and photographic fluid.

I use Woodland Scenics Scenic Cement for ballasting although I also use slightly watered down matte medium.   Either way I have to wet the ballast first or the cement just beads up.

Dave Nelson

[faraway]

I wonder what kind of ballast you use.

It should be made of crushed real heavy stones. That kind of ballast will not jump at all.

[delray1967]

Ever consider using AMI instant roadbed or similar?  It's a strip of tacky rubber that will stick to the benchwork, then you just press the track onto that strip.  Now all you have to do is pour on the ballast, press it into the strip that is exposed between the ties and outside the rails, then brush the excess off for use later and vaccuum up the rest.  Anything not pressed into the roadbed will be sucked up and everything stuck into the sticky rubber will be held down.  I used this on my first layout when I was a kid and it lasted for many (15?) years.  If the ballast ever gets rubbed off from too much hands-on action (like when kids play too rough with it), just sprinkle on a bit more ballast, and press it into place and vaccuum up the extra.  Presto, like brand new again.  Since then, on my 4x8 layout, I've used cork roadbed and diluted white glue with WS ballast because I thought the AMI stuff was for beginners.  Now, I'm thinking of using it on my new layout (11x27), on top of the cork, because ballasting 100' of track seems like a LOT of work.  I'm still remodeling my basement, but I'll be sure to post on the progress.

[Rotorranch]

Ever consider using AMI instant roadbed or similar?  It's a strip of tacky rubber that will stick to the benchwork, then you just press the track onto that strip.  Now all you have to do is pour on the ballast, press it into the strip that is exposed between the ties and outside the rails, then brush the excess off for use later and vaccuum up the rest.  Anything not pressed into the roadbed will be sucked up and everything stuck into the sticky rubber will be held down.  I used this on my first layout when I was a kid and it lasted for many (15?) years.  If the ballast ever gets rubbed off from too much hands-on action (like when kids play too rough with it), just sprinkle on a bit more ballast, and press it into place and vaccuum up the extra.  Presto, like brand new again.  Since then, on my 4x8 layout, I've used cork roadbed and diluted white glue with WS ballast because I thought the AMI stuff was for beginners.  Now, I'm thinking of using it on my new layout (11x27), on top of the cork, because ballasting 100' of track seems like a LOT of work.  I'm still remodeling my basement, but I'll be sure to post on the progress.

We used that on one of The Kids N scale layouts. I won't use it again. The track still needs to be tacked down, as it kept coming unstuck. Not to mention the roadbed doesn't lay real flat.

After a couple months of fooling with it, The Kid tore that layout down, and is now rebuilding with cork. I am glad the issues came to light early in the construction phase, and not after he finished the layout.

delray1967...did you glue the ballast and track after you laid it?

Rotor

[delray1967]

No, not that I can remember, I was three when that layout was started.  When I tore that layout up (at 20 years old), it all came up pretty good, enough for me to reuse the all the turnouts (and some flex track for use as an abandoned siding) on my new layout.  I remember pushing new ballast into the roadbed every five years or so, where hand contact wore the ballast away, but never gluing anything down.  Maybe my dad used spikes as well, that would probably hold it down.  I'm sure you could add a diluted glue mixture after it was installed though, good idea.

[BCSJ]

You problem may be using WS ballast which isn't rock and can 'float' on water. Try using Smith and Sons or Arizona Rock and Mineral (or other real rock ballast) and see if the problem goes away.

Regards,

Charlie Comstock 

[doctorwayne]

Here's an easy and effective solution to this problem.  When I'm ballasting, I use a paper cup to dump the ballast along the track, then spread it with a soft 1/2" brush.  If your roadbed has steep shoulders that causes the ballast to roll down the slope, use another brush to paint the slope with full-strength white glue before applying the ballast.  At turnouts, don't apply too much ballast - keep it below the tie tops, especially in the area where the points move over the ties.  Apply some plastic-compatible oil to these tie tops, and move the points back and forth several times to spread the oil.  This will keep those points from getting glued to the ties.  Park the points at mid-throw, so that they don't touch the stock rails, too, so they don't get glued in place.  When you've got all of the ballast arranged as best you can (do this while it's still dry - if you touch it when it's wet, you'll make a real mess), flip the brush around, grasping the ferrule lightly between your fingers.  Lay the brush handle across the rails, then, as you move the brush handle along the rails, tap it lightly with your free hand.  Any stray ballast on the tie tops will "magically" bounce into the space between the ties.

When you apply your "wet" water (I prefer water with a few drops of liquid dish detergent added - alcohol is for drinking ), use a sprayer that gives a fine mist.  For the first few squirts, aim it upward so that the droplets fall on the ballast like a gentle rain.  Once the ballast has been dampened, you can spray it directly without dislodging any back onto the tie tops.  Continue spraying until water begins to seep from the edge of the ballast - the glue mixture will only penetrate as deep as the water, and insufficient water will result in a hard crust atop loose ballast.  For the glue, I buy white glue in a gallon jug - it's cheaper than in the smaller squeeze bottles and also much cheaper than matte medium, which also will work.  Do not use a sprayer to apply the glue, unless you want glue on the rails, and anything else that happens to be near the track.  Instead, use a plastic dropper bottle - someone suggested the bottle that contact lense solution comes in - but any plastic bottle that will apply the glue mixture in drops will work.  I use hot tap water (it seems to mix with the glue better) and white glue in roughly equal portions.  Establish a pattern to distribute the glue - I usually do the centre of the track, then one ballast shoulder, then the other.  As soon as the glue drops hit the wet ballast, they'll spread, both out and down into the ballast.  Make sure that all areas receive glue.  By the time that you've done the final shoulder, there should be glue seeping from the lower edge of the ballast.  
When you've finished for the day, leave the room and don't come back for at least 24 hours.  If you also do sub-ballast and rip-rap, along with trackside scenery, as I often do, it may be several days before everything dries completely.  Don't touch anything while it's wet!  When everything has dried, you may have to clean the tops of the rails, but there should be no ballast on the ties tops, and the ballast on the roadbed will be strong and secure.

 

Wayne