3D PlanIt

[gshin]

I'm currently using 3rdPlanIt to build my basement layout.  I've used it since early version 7 and the program just keeps getting better with each version!  You can see some of my design work at http://www.shindledecker.com/trackplanshowingtowns.  I find it indispensible for keeping me honest - what you design will fit!  Once your design is done, you can save a file to print 1:1 at Kinkos for laying track.

Although the learning curve is steep, the program comes with libraries full of standard turnouts, structures, engines and rolling stock will help ease the pain a bit.  What I really love is the ability to view the layout in 3D and run trains to test my designs.  

The program is very complex, but spending some quality time with it will yield amazing results.  There is also a lot of user support via yahoo groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3rdPlanIt/  and a user-oriented web site: http://3rdplanit.com/vbulletin/.

Regards,

Greg 

[joe-daddy]

Greg,

Nice website with an excellent set of drawings and plans.  I've book marked your site so I can watch as you progress with your railroad.  That huge newly finished basement looks very accomodating!  Interesting that you chose an island layout design.

Joe Daddy 

 

[gshin]

Thanks, Joe Daddy!

 I'm starting benchwork this Saturday, so I hope to have some new pictures posted.

Regards,

Greg 

[Hudson]

Greg,

Nice stuff...........You seem to be pretty accomplished with 3D.

I'm having an awful time trying to draw a certain track configuration in 3D planit maybe you could offer a tip or two?

I'm trying to draw a curved compound ladder. The outside radii being 36". Using 3 curved turnouts to fan out symetrically from the lead into 4 body tracks, spaced 2 1/4"..........For the life of me I can't get it to happen in 3D planit.

Any thoughts?

[gshin]

Hi Hudson,

You might get a bit more specific help on the Yahoo Group, but here's what I would do:

1. In the library, click on track,  HO (I'm assuming HO), then select whatever brand of turnout your using.  I picked Wathers Code 83, and then picked a curved #7-1/2 turnout.  This seems to have an outside curve radius of 36".
2. Select of cut/copy two more for a total of 3 turnouts.
3. Align the turnouts by dragging the end of one turnout to join it with another.  It should snap and align automatically if you drag one over the other's end.
4. Use the draw projecting line tool to extend a straight piece of track from the topmost turnout.  As you extend, make it 2-1/2 to 3 feet in length.  You can always resize later.
5. Again use the draw projecting line tool to extend a straight line from each turnout.  Make these about 3 inches each.
6. In the Options dialog (Tools->Options), click the Tools icon, and make sure the distance between parallel objects is 2 1/4".
7. Now, use the  copy parallel  tool to  copy the 3' straight section down to make the next lead.  The tracks will automatically be parallel and 2-1/4" center to center.
8. Select the connect direct tool and use it to make a smooth curve between each of the turnouts and its corresponding yard lead.

 

Getting used to 3rd PlanIt is tough, but worth it.  In the early design stages, I often use both the program and a pencil to do the "what ifs".  Ultimately, the program keeps your dreams and expectations realistic.

Regards,

Greg

 

[Hudson]

Hey Greg,

I know how to do all of that..............and I can achieve a result similiar to yours. The problem Is that how the turnouts fan into the ladder isn't symmetrical. The idea is that the diverging route radii, and easments, need to be such to fan out gracefully into parallel body tracks at the preferred spacing. Without using a reversed turnout at the top and without an S-curve.......

It's proven, sofar, to be impossible to do in 3d Planit. I've also asked at the various forums on line. Another thing you can't do with the software is draw a high speed curved crossover between two parallel curved routes.

These are things you find everyday in track geometry..................

Like I said basic uncomplicated track alignments are easy but any kind of complex special work is practically impossible. Frankly I've come to the conclusion that the CAD engine isn't capable of what I need it to do.

Imagine trying to draw a curved passenger throat into a terminal. Let's say with dual ladders, crossovers, and double slips.

I'd bet good money it's impossible in 3D plan it.

Thanks anyway though, you've comfirmed my suspicions. Everyone I've asked comes up with a similiar result to yours including myself.

[gshin]

Hi,

You can certainly do all of what you are describing in in 3rdPlanIt if you choose to design your own turnouts.  Since you didn't specify, I assumed you were not handlaying track.

That said, I'm not an expert at designing turnouts from scratch, but I do know that 3rdPlanIt users who design custom turnouts use a combination of the CAD software and Templot (www.templot.com) to compute all the right dimensions.  There is also a turnout calculator in the files area of the Yahoo user group.  Lastly, there is new functionality built in to the program to use the Fast Tracks stuff if you wish to go that route.

In any case, 3rdPlanIt has all the primitives to do anything you wish.  It may just not be point and click.

I wish you well in your endeavors.

Greg 

 

[Hudson]

Hey Greg,

I've been down that road too..................

I'll take a closer look again at "Templot"............

It's not constructing the turnouts that seem to be the problem though.......

The connection engine just doesn't seem to be able to calculate the kind of geometry that I'm looking to accomplish.

I'll probably make a direct inquiry to Randy seeming that I've exhausted most of my options........

Thanks for the well wishes, nice layout plan BTW...........

 

 

[dante]

Hi Hudson,

You might get a bit more specific help on the Yahoo Group, but here's what I would do:

1. In the library, click on track,  HO (I'm assuming HO), then select whatever brand of turnout your using.  I picked Wathers Code 83, and then picked a curved #7-1/2 turnout.  This seems to have an outside curve radius of 36".
2. Select of cut/copy two more for a total of 3 turnouts.
3. Align the turnouts by dragging the end of one turnout to join it with another.  It should snap and align automatically if you drag one over the other's end.
4. Use the draw projecting line tool to extend a straight piece of track from the topmost turnout.  As you extend, make it 2-1/2 to 3 feet in length.  You can always resize later.
5. Again use the draw projecting line tool to extend a straight line from each turnout.  Make these about 3 inches each.
6. In the Options dialog (Tools->Options), click the Tools icon, and make sure the distance between parallel objects is 2 1/4".
7. Now, use the  copy parallel  tool to  copy the 3' straight section down to make the next lead.  The tracks will automatically be parallel and 2-1/4" center to center.
8. Select the connect direct tool and use it to make a smooth curve between each of the turnouts and its corresponding yard lead.

 

Getting used to 3rd PlanIt is tough, but worth it.  In the early design stages, I often use both the program and a pencil to do the "what ifs".  Ultimately, the program keeps your dreams and expectations realistic.

Regards,

Greg

 

I don't use 3DPlanit; I use Empire Express on a Mac.  However, based on measurements of the actual turnouts, I have made grapics of them that I can send you in PDF format that you might possibly use as the basis for a custom turnout in #DPlanit.  They are centerline, single line graphics.

A caution regarding the radii of these turnouts.   There was an earlier thread specifically about Walthers/Shinohara turnouts to which I posted this:

"To recheck my curved turnout sizes (Walthers/Shinohara Code 83), I built a homemade beam compass, laid-out arcs and overlaid the turnouts. The results are:

• #6/#6.5:  24/18 (frog# depends on whether you believe the box label or the imprint on the turnout!)

• #7:  28/22

• #7.5:  32/26

• #8:  36/30

I also checked a #4 Code 70: with a 22" radius for the closure rail, it must actually be a #4.5.

The inside radii are not what Walthers posts nor are they as imprinted on the underside of the turnouts!"

Dante
 

[Mntneer]

Anyone here using 3D PlanIt?

 

It looks nice but rather expensive. Can you get it from somewhere else but the manufacturer?

 

Magnus

 

I've used 3rd Planit, as well as RR Track.  Both are good in some areas, bad in others. 

RR Track has, IMO, much better track libraries as well as accessory libraries, and is much easier when it comes to laying sectional track.   The biggest problem I have with is is how it handles topographical elevations, as well as it's 3D view window.  It's hard, IMO, at creating terrain that you really want, and when you go to view your layout, the 3D window controls leaves a lot to be desired.

3rd Planit though is much better when it comes to working with terrain, elevations, etc., and the 3D view of your layout is much much nicer.  Plus, the ability to run trains on it is a nice bonus.  The track libraries though aren't as robust as I would like, as are the accessories, and laying track is not as easy, IMO than it is in RR Track.  Such as selecting multiple pieces of track at once.  In RR Track, if they are connected, just double clicking any track member selects all track connected to it.  3rd Planit doesn't do that.

3rd Planit does have a much much steeper learning curve too, but it's more functional than RR Track.

Prices for both are a bit high IMO though, especially considering the finished product.

[Texas Zepher]

I've been in contact with the 3D PlanIt people.   They reviewed my purchase of the product and have agreed that I get a free upgrade to version 8.x.   SO I down loaded it last night and will work through a few things I was having trouble with before.  I'll post a new review after I've had a while to get used to it, and can give it a "fair shake".

[SilverSpike]

Texas, I was able to get the free 3rd PlanIt upgrade from my earlier version as well a few months back. I find it has resolved many of the bugs from earlier versions, however the upgrade has not made the program any "easier" from a usage standpoint, it still has the same robust features and a few more "bells" and "whistles" which might actually confuse some novice users of the program.  The learning curve is still worth it for me!

[odave]

I'll throw my $0.02 as well.  I evaluated several packages last year including 3rd PlanIt, CADRail and XtrkCAD.  I found that each of them had their own sets of quirks, non-intuitive methodologies, and length of learning curve.  This will sound weird after some of the posts up-thread, but I ended up going with 3rd PlanIt mainly because I got along with its UI better than the others.  I work on an industrial robotics CAD package every day, and 3PI just felt more natural to me.  Obviously that doesn't apply to everyone.  I don't regret the purchase at all, even though it was more expensive, and I agree that once you're up the learning curve it's a very powerful package.

I agree with the others who suggested downloading the demos.   I would figure out what you want to accomplish with the CAD package (track layout only, layout + scenery + benchwork, etc.).  You may want to sketch a simple track plan on paper as an evaluation tool.  Then download the various demo packages and see how hard or easy you find it to draw up that simple track plan.

[BCSJ]

Back in the long ago I switched from cadrail to 3rdPlanit (for various reasons I won't go into at this time). Since then I've designed several model railroads with it (including the current Bear Creek and South Jackson in my 1100 sqft basement room).

 http://s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/layoutdesign/bcsj3_design/index.html

I drove our architect nuts by using 3pi to do house designs and 3d views. I've used it to string diagrams to create a schedules and lineups. I've also used it to make 3d diagrams demonstrating various facets of layout construction.

 http://s145079212.onlinehome.us/rr/howto/bridgebracing/index.html

Somehow I feel that I've gotten my money's worth out of the program. And yes, while $100 is enough money to get the attention of most mortals, check out what AutoCad costs for a comparison...

Regards,

Charlie Comstock