Shocked

[Anonymous]

Easy gentlemen, we all have our opinion even if it isn't the same as mine!

Rgds ian

[hoofe116]

My take on it has always been, if you want to play trains, do it. If you want to holler about how much it costs, you probably need to take up another hobby.

Now that at long last you've found someone to feel superior to, I hope you will feel better.

Les Whitaker

[Anonymous]

My take on it has always been, if you want to play trains, do it. If you want to holler about how much it costs, you probably need to take up another hobby.

 

And posts like yours are such a wonderful way to bring and keep new people in the hobby...not. Do you enjoy being rude?

 

Back on topic, regarding costs. When I had a garden, I went with free floating track on fines as well. My biggest problems were dandelions and thistles (never could teach the mowing boy NOT to blow the stuff into the garden)...now I have a small indoor layout built on a diningroom table with a plywood overlay... not fancy, but servicable.   Almost everything I have is Lehmann/LGB, but I bought most of it secondhand at reasonable prices...it still operates flawlessly. It took a little longer (almost 2 years looking for the mogul) to get the stuff I wanted, but most of it eventually showed up at a price I was comfortable with.

[GearDrivenSteam]

My take on it has always been, if you want to play trains, do it. If you want to holler about how much it costs, you probably need to take up another hobby.

[Anonymous]

Les thqat sounds quite interesting, metalic ground.

I am also a qualified navigator and the east coast of aAustralia is, magnetic morth is about 7 to 15 deg east of true north. The further north you go the more the deviation, its about 12 deg here at 26 deg south 149 deg east. We are about as far south of the equator, as we are west of the international date line i think its about 1600 nautical miles. 

Rgds ain

[hoofe116]

Indor:

I read your 'fines' problem. Even put in my worth. Around here, there's so much ferrous (ferrite?) crap in the clay that it drives a metal detector nuts. Our local Magnetic North (compass north) is 5 deg W of true N. if I remember correctly. Most of the lower 2/3rds of the state is that way.

I'm waiting the summer garage sales. Every now 'n again I run onto G gauge stuff. It usually isn't as cheap as I'd like, but it's out there.

Someone mentioned a 2x4 for a railbed. Wonder how it'd look, beveled 45 deg at the top and painted slate gray and dusted with small gravel? I'll try, soon's the snow melts.

Cheers,

Les

[Anonymous]

I live in the tropics and it hasn't rained much here for about 5 years but when it does rain its of a night time and it is monsoonal, very heavy.

I just put down crusher fines and then my track and i have very little trouble, but what every one says is quite correct; what is best for me may not be best for you and in this hobby there is no right or wrong way of doing anything. For slightly (up to 200 mm) elevated i have started using bricks coated with Glopatta (all from this forum) higher elevation, i use 9 mm marine tyope ply with 20 mm sides of 4 mm marine type ply and i coat the whole thing with several coats of paving paint. I make a type of tray 110 mm wide or the size of a brick, this is then filled with fines and my track on top of that. I buy all the ply in big sheets and cut it up with my Triton sawing table.

Before you think about mixing stones with fines read my "Incredible situation" posting.

rgds ian 

[ttrigg]

Depends where you live? ......

I just layed a 3inch gravel base and plopped the track right down onto it, of course I'm still just a spritely young whippersnapper at 43, so getting down on the ground doesnt pose too many ills for me........
I do have concerns over whether or not I'll have premature rot issues as applied treatments dont last too long here. I might consider something similar to TOCs approach using pressure treated wood, had that stuff in the ground for planters for years with no troubles, but I have noticed warping, thats why I considered the plywood first..

Les:

As Kim said "Don't get bogged down in trying to find the right way, we all have our own choice and what works for me may not work for you. A trench filled with gravel and the track floating in the gravel means lots of maintenance but I enjoy doing it."

I too just plop it out on the ground.  I have some sections trenched out and filled with crushed rock.  Since my ground is "California White Clay" it has a tendency to migrate.  I dug up those sections, lined the trench with gardeners fabric, filled them back in with the crushed rock and have had no problems there.  Other parts of my layout are built upon sandy fill dirt that I acquired, which drains real well.  There I just put down about 2~3 inches of crusher fines.  In the area where the GRR passes through the wife's rose beds, the track lays directly on top of the bark mulch, no gravel, no crusher fines, nada, zip, nothing.  The only time (and section) that I have had a problem with track movement was a section that I had staked to the ground.  All the free floating stuff has had no problem.

Unlike Vic I'm not so spry anymore (having voted in my first election, the year before he was born.)  Even with the arthritis, the bad hip, and diminished mental capability, I still like to get down and play in the dirt!


Vic:  
I have been wondering how you were going to stabilize that design.  Instead of plywood, have you given any though to Plexiglas?  About three layers of thin (~1/8 inch) laminated should give the support and durability you would need. 

[hoofe116]

Dunrobin:

You've hit on what I'd concluded to do before I bought my first piece of G Gauge. (A used Aristo Sw). Here's why, and I'll try to answer all the other folks who took time to reply: Yes, I'm gettin' old. But I have lots more time than money. I used to farm, so getting down on the ground isn't any big deal. (Getting back up is, sometimes<g>). My designated spot is essentially an abandoned strip of the back yard that's sloped and washed. It causes flooding problems in my backyard and basement in very wet springs. Here in MO, at the confluence of the Missouri & Mississippi, we get some bad winters (like this one) but more often, mild ones. So, I need to trench anyway. I already know I'll need trestles and don't mind building them, but not right away. I want a simple P to P setup, just for ease of installation and to 'feel' my way along. Wife has been wanting a pond for a number of years. I know I'll have to dig 'cuts' and allow for drainage, thus lots of little bridge-type culverts. RR will be pre-1900 logging & mining. Trolley or lite rail might come some years from now. I figure to die here, so moving on isn't in the plan. Low investment rate and slow growth via handbuilt equipment/structures insofar as practicable is my envisioned mode of progress.

Thanks again to all who replied.

Les Whitaker

[Marty Cozad]

My roadbed is around $2.00, the artical is in Mylargescale.coms artical page.

But most folks think its too much work , but after they have been here and ran. They go home and do the same thing.

Much easier than what you read. 

[imrnjr]

Go out to Paul Race's Family Garden Trains web site http://www.btcomm.com/trains/ and look at the article on  the HPDE ladder system for a primer on that style of construction. 

I'm utilizing a modified "post and plank"  using 3/4" x 4" and 3/4" x 6" concrete board stabilized and leveled via 1" schd 40 PVC screwed to 2x4 nominal blocks every 30 to 36 inches.  My track is on the ground in a raised bed but needs significant stability due deer, varmints and dogs loping thru it.

If expense is your issue the crushed rock and fines will likely be the cheapest based on my research.

 

good luck what ever you decide...

 

markl

[vsmith]

Depends where you live? I'm in LA where snow/frost heave isnt an issue.

I just layed a 3inch gravel base and plopped the track right down onto it, of course I'm still just a spritely young whippersnapper at 43, so getting down on the ground doesnt pose too many ills for me.

However when I buld my new layout, given its grades and curves its definetly going to have a base support system! As my layout is going to be closer to 12-18" raised at its low point I was going to use 2x4s as piers, a treated cut to shape plywood base with a treated 1x stringers under it. I do have concerns over whether or not I'll have premature rot issues as applied treatments dont last too long here. I might consider something similar to TOCs approach using pressure treated wood, had that stuff in the ground for planters for years with no troubles, but I have noticed warping, thats why I considered the plywood first..

[Great Western]

Greetings Les,

     s you will have seen we all have different ideas on the advantages/disadvantages of garden railroad construction techniques. 

  Those who favour raised layouts have valid points regarding maintenance and accessability.  Likewise those who prefer to have their trains running on the ground amidst the flora and fauna equally have valid points.

   When I built my railroad last summer I chose ground level in the main as my wife felt it looked aethetically better than stilts (however high) and this has enabled her to become involved as well.  She is looking after the horticultural side of things. 

   If you are fortunate enough to have an area which has a slope to it then a raised part of your track can arise.  This can be an area where you are able to access the track more easily - that is if you are not as nimble as you once were , if you are still nimble then you can do as you please and count your blessings. 

   There is plenty of useful advice here and of course there are good magazine articles  to read.
 

[cabbage]

I too did use, and will use, "The Plank on a Post system". This is because of the ease of usage and the fact I don't have to bend down as far. The system we use in the UK is similar to that used by David (above), however here -Damp and Rot prevention is paramount.

Translating from the SI to Imperial gives:

A 24 inch length of 4 inch square post stood in a steel "metpost" spike. Topped with a 6x1 inch rafter plank. This is re-enforced with longitudinal 2x1 batterns. The lot is daubed with bitumious paint and then roofing felt is laid on top and trimmed until there is a "drip lip"of about 1/2 inch below the side of the plank battens. We use Tanalised timber which is good for 25 years in our wet and warm climate.

regards

ralph

[kimbrit]

Hi Les,

Don't get bogged down in trying to find the right way, we all have our own choice and what works for me may not work for you. A trench filled with gravel and the track floating in the gravel means lots of maintenance but I enjoy doing it. Now I'm getting a little bit older I have just started lifting my track to do the groundwork to raise it about 1', it's being raised with shuttering and soil infill, gravel on top and the track floating in the gravel. Same as before but higher! Get some track outside mate, see how it behaves and whether your trains like how you've done it, if they don't, you'll have learnt something and then try something else.

Cheers,

Kim

[Curmudgeon]

Don't know how old you are, but if you want a railroad that you will lose interest in due to maintenance and getting down on the ground all the time, then do it on the ground.

We built the CCRy 15+ years ago without any of us having ever seen a garden railroad.

We built it between 1' and 5' off the ground.

We operate regularly, now that we cannot get on the ground we can still work the railroad.

I'd never do it any other way.

 

10" is overkill.

We use 2X4 on straights, 2X6 curve cut on curves, and filled with dirt against rock, rr tie or block walls.

Fill as you can.

The 2X4 is perfect spacing, halfway between the rail and the outer edge of the ties, so any ballast that washes in a monsoon doesn't expose 4" of wood on each side.

Another problem is cupping.

2X12's are HORRIBLE, 2X10's BAD, 2X6's acceptable, 2X4's perfect.

TOC

[Anonymous]

Dig out your roadbed about 6 inches deep. That is if you are in winter country. half that if you don't get winter. Make the trench as square and level as possible. Lay in some course crushed stone about 3 inches deep. On top of that put in crushed stone half the size again for about 1.5 inches. On top of that put fine crushed stone and make sure all is leve. It is probably good to be just above ground level. Lay your track on that.
You will have good drainage and the frost in the winter will do less damage. This is labour intensive, but inexpensive. You can dive rods down in it if you want you can drive small diameter rods in the roadbed and attach it however to the ties. This will also help keep the track from moving with weather extremes. On rod per three foot section or six foot section would sufice. Hope this gives you some ideas.

[hoofe116]

The Gurus of G Gauge:

No, not electrically. Financially.

I finally found an article on laying track. Admittedly, this article focussed on 'raised' track using 4x4's set deep into the ground on about 2 ft centers and concreted. Then wolmanized 2x10's were recommended for stringers between the posts, topped by wolmanized 1x10's to put the track on. But it seemed to suggest that'd be good for ground level runs as well.

Just doing some rough math, I believe I could buy an abandoned section of the old MoPac with a few obsolete 1:1 scale engines and rolling stock for just a few dollars more.

I'd independently concluded that suitable inch wolmanized on the ground (and fastened down with rerod) might be good, before I ran into this article.

Can someone PLEASE point me to a 'how to lay track on the ground' article?

Thanks,

Les Whitaker