How to make rocks

[Camaro1967]

Here in Slower Lower Delaware, we have no hills, and we have no rocks.  We end up having to buy rock, and it usually is not cheap.  So my question is what methods have been used to make rocks for an outdoor railroad. Are there molds, and what materials are used.

Thanks

Paul 

[Rene Schweitzer]

Paul,

Jack Verducci has written quite a bit about this subject, as he's made a lot of rock formations outdoors. We have one of his articles to download here (free): http://www.trains.com/grw/default.aspx?c=a&id=13 

You can purchase rubber rock molds or use something like crinkled up tin foil.

[Camaro1967]

All this link does is get me to the index for 1999.  I see the article, but Can't find out how to download it.

Can you help me some more.

thanks

Paul 

[Anonymous]

Rene was able to direct me to this article some time ago and i think you need an acrobat something or other to access the article.

I am working on this very subject right now and i am some way down the track and i am very happy with what she was able to get to me and with what is happening here.

This stuff is called glopatta or similar and i have worked out the ratios as well as i can for making smaller batches, as i am 70 years old i work at a very slow pace and i take plenty of rests.

30 parts mortar mix. 1 part fire clay, 1 part cement (not concrete), 1 part hydrated lime and we are using 1 part biege colouring to recreate Queensland sandstone blocks (we will mark the partially set mixture appropriately later on) and about 10 parts water but this will vary with conditions ie temperature and hunidity. The lime is a problem as you can only buy it in bigger quantities than you need, but it's not exxy at all. We have already used our first bag of mortar mix.

The work we are doing is pretty good and its pretty easy but what Jack does is outstanding.

If you want to see what we have done send us an email, it isn't much but we are hastening slowly and leaving the most artistic stuff till last.

Rgds Ian 

[FJ and G]

if you have dirt, fill, rubble, etc, build that up then make rubber castings like the indoor folks do, only use cement (you can lay chicken wire over the dirt mounds or use thin rebar to reinforce it so it doesn't come apart). You can premix colors into the cement; even latex. I've made a stream using concrete and rocks (below) and plan to make cliffs with cast-in concrete.

 

 

[MTCarpenter]

You can premix colors into the cement; even latex. I've made a stream using concrete and rocks (below) and plan to make cliffs with cast-in concrete.

If I've asked you this question before, please forgive me, but do you (or does anyone) know if you want to have a pond at the end with fish or more specifically turtles in it, will the dye, latex, or even the concrete effect them?

If not, what is the best method for making "water animal safe" streams and rivers?

Edit to add - FJ and G - I love seeing pictures of your railway.  Anytime you post some I look at them for a long time to learn stuff from them. 

[MTCarpenter]

Rene was able to direct me to this article some time ago and i think you need an acrobat something or other to access the article.

Adobe Acrobat Reader.  It can be found here:

http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html

[FJ and G]

Thanks, Matt,

I have a small pond at the end, but no fish. The hound drinks from it and has not yet succumbed. From what I've read, concrete and cement contain lime, which is hazardous to the fishies and possibly plants. There are 2 ways to correct it.

The first is to purchase a concrete sealent. I havent used it and don't know who makes it but others have told me about this.

The second method is to do nothing. After several months of rain, sun, sleet, etc, the lime will naturally leach out. I cannot offer a scientific answer as to the exact period you need to wait. I suppose it depends on factors like water quality etc.

[underworld]

Woodland Scenics makes some nice rubber rock molds. Like others have suggested, you can use concrete or some sort of mix with them.

 

underworld

[Anonymous]

As well you can make your own moulds out of silicone rubber i think. I haven't done it yet but i will give it a go soon.Rgds Ian 

[newto gscale]

a word of advise if you start to use live fish,turtles or anything else alive you are getting into another hobby.i know i,ve been there done it for two years. to many headaches. just my 2 cents worth. enjoy the trains for awhile.

[underworld]

iandor Woodland Scenics makes a good molding compound. I haven't used it yet but I know a few people that have and they got good results.

underworld

[ttrigg]

If I've asked you this question before, please forgive me, but do you (or does anyone) know if you want to have a pond at the end with fish or more specifically turtles in it, will the dye, latex, or even the concrete effect them? If not, what is the best method for making "water animal safe" streams and rivers?

Matt;
I have Koi in my pond. The pond is made water tight by the pond liner. Since my wife did not want to look at the black rubber liner, I used rocks held in place with color added mortar. Lots of rocks and mortar were used in building the water fall.

When building the plumbing system from the pump to the falls, using a large filter, I ran a by-pass line so that the water could be pumped "around" the filter. I removed the filtration medium from both the waterfall box and the leaf separator "drain" so as to not expose them to the contaminated "first" water. I filled the pond and turned on the pump so that the water would begin to flow, and let the chemicals leach out of the mortar. I drained and refilled the pond three times to get all of the chemical contaminates out of the pond. On the fourth fill, I took a sample of the water to my local pond store and they ran a few tests to see if the water was safe, and it was. I purchased a dozen mosquito fish as a test. They are extremely sensitive to any contamination. After they had all survived for a week I shut the system down so that I could install the filter medium in the fall box and the leaf separator. I turned the valves so that the water from the pump would go through the filter. Went back to the store and got the Koi. Have had no problems since, except for a faulty "automatic filler valve" which over filled the pond and the chlorine killed off all the fish. I most hartedly recommend NOT using any type of "automatic filler valve" when fish are concerned.

[FJ and G]

Tom,

 

I was gonna suggest doing a water sample but you beat me to it.

 

I us3d to have lousy luck with aquarium fish.

 

So what I did one day is net some minnows and crayfish. They survived quite nicely and the minnows were really pretty. I let them go back in the stream when I moved.

 

You can't go wrong with native stuff. We have snakehead fish in our area that walk on land. I may try some of those. They also have big teeth. 

[Anonymous]

Thanks underworld, I'll look into it. I am working on a sandstone block wall at the moment and i am concentrating on getting experience in mixtures and application; i am pretty bad at this sort of thing.

Rds Ian

[MTCarpenter]

Thanks for the pond tips everyone.

newto gscale  - appreciate that bit of info.  Something I've considered, but I've got 2 RES that will need a bigger place to live in a few years.  Plus this was part of the negotiations between me and my wife for a railroad ROW in our yard. :)

[Camaro1967]

Thanks underworld, you have been very helpful. I definately will look into this. I am afraid that by the time I buy molds, and casting compound it may be as cheap to go to the local rock places.  On the other hand, I can resort to my old method, of visiting construction sites on weekends after dark.  Very cheap so far.

Paul 

[underworld]

Camaro1967 You might also check local quarries. Around here they have piles of varying quality stuff for rock hounds / fossil hunters to dig through and haul away for free.

underworld

[underworld]

I.S.L.E. Laboratories also makes a good latex mold compound. They also have some premade rock face pieces made from polyfoam. They look great and if painted they are UV proof.

You can also use these as a master to make molds from to make more pieces from polyfoam or other materials.

 

underworld

[Anonymous]

A bit if a laugh here; but a few years ago i bought some of the best rocks you have ever seen, i have shown then on this forum at the time they were so good. The price was very good as well.

Well anyway it turned out they were hot; yes they were stolen rocks, from a deceased estate.

You would wonder who would do such a thing?

Rgds Ian

[underworld]

WoW....I guess some people will steal anything.

 

underworld

[Anonymous]

I was in the battery industry for quite some time and some people i know used to get masses of car batteries stolen and i used to wonder who would do such a thing. The are very heavy, not worth much and they used to have to get them out individually some time through the ceiling.

I often thought that i didn't believe it and they were faking it fior an insurance claim.

Burt this is pure speculation on my part.R

gds ian

[Ray Dunakin]

The best artificial rock work I've seen is on Bob Treat's "Snow Creek RR". His layout is absolutely stunning. He wrote an article about how to do it which was published in the August 2001 issue of GR. I don't know if that article is available as a free download, but you can buy the back issue and it is well worth it.

He mostly uses aluminum foil to make the molds and the result is very convincing. Silicone or rubber is not cost-effective for the size and quantity you'd need for a large-scale layout. Bob uses a mix of block or plaster cement with ground marble (called "marble white") as the aggregate. "Pam" cooking spray is used as a mold release to keep the cement from sticking to the foil.

I've been fortunate to be able to obtain real rocks for my layout, but I do some concrete molded stuff too. Mainly I use it to apply a simulated rock texture to the inside of tunnels, blending the ends of tunnels into the real rocks, disguising concrete steps and walls, etc. For this I use vinyl patching plaster tinted with concrete coloring powder available from any hardware store.

[Anonymous]

I like Jack V. way to do the rocks, hills, etc...

When I was doing landscaping had a lady request a planter/water fall. We did this by using cattle panels then chicken wire with then screen wire all to be covered by a thin layer of stucko (sp) but make sure it is ruff and before it drys use the concrete so they marrie together. In the pockets of the planters in the stones we left a 3/4" pipe to send water out when it rained to much or over watered. Just a FYI

[TJ Lee]

Camaro1967,

This might help. Cheap, relatively quick, and you make any size you want.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/tj-lee/

See the PDF:

Trains - Building Scenery - Cliffs Rev 08-25-2006.pdf

Hope that gives you some ideas. Around page 66 is an example of making a quick rock. Just a bit of chicken wire and there you are.

Best,

TJ

[Anonymous]

William i wouldn't mind doing that myself, but i am doing other stuff now. I guess i will put it in the "do later" basket.

Rgds Ian

[underworld]

Camaro1967,

This might help. Cheap, relatively quick, and you make any size you want.

http://1stclass.mylargescale.com/tj-lee/

See the PDF:

Trains - Building Scenery - Cliffs Rev 08-25-2006.pdf

Hope that gives you some ideas. Around page 66 is an example of making a quick rock. Just a bit of chicken wire and there you are.

Best,

TJ

Cool link...thanks!

underworld

[TJ Lee]

Underworld,

> Cool link...thanks!

Glad you liked it. I've had it posted for some time but have gotten remarkably little feedback on it.

Best,

TJ

[underworld]

Kind of like paper mache.....but loads stronger!!! Now If I just had a yard to do something like this!!!!!

underworld

[xpilot901]

   I am new to this forum. I have made rocks from cement before using a mold I purchased from a local hardware store. I have seen them on line also. I was making them to put in my fish tank. Another way is to cut them out of foam and brush cement over them. Here is a ling that will help explain using cement in an environment for fish http://www.cichlidforum.com/articles/diy_aquarium_background.php  I do have pictures of my finished rock but I don't understand how to post pictures.