the Monster is Here!!!! 3-19-06 Painting finished

[cabbage]

The obvious question is : "how did I know?"



regards

ralph

[vsmith]

Yep Ralph you and Fletch both nailed it immediatly...I didnt count on someone decifering the b&w pic on the bench, but afterwords I looked at it and sure enough, I realized I could easily tell it was the most famous pic of the Price.

Yours looks cool, what did you use for drive bricks? and what diameter curve is that? it looks like 3 feet!

It looks like your pivot point for the double bogie is closer to the middle of the double bogie chassis than mine. ( scratch that - I just noticed on your pic that your pivot bolt is in almost the same place as mine[;)]) I tried mounting the bolt in the middle but the overhang front and rear was too much for my layout ,so I used the double bogie chassis's and a block of wood for the loco chassis mock up to test run around the layout and find the optimal pivot point to minimize overhang by running it at varius pivot points. It didnt take long to find the optimal spot for me. Using the front double bogie as a reference the pivot is about 1 inch behind the lead truck pivot mounting point, this limits the front and rear overhang while the overhang of the center of the car is more or less covered by the width of the car itself. One other advantage is that I could mount the couplers to the the double bogie mounting plate so that the coupler remains more or less centered over the rails through the R1 curves.


this pic kinda shows the coupler mount


You can see the pivot screw bolt here, the left is the front of the double bogie chassis, about 1 inch from the lead bogie mount.

[cabbage]

The curve is 2 feet 6 inches radius.
I did not experiment with the pivot positions -but used mathematics!!!
The bogies are IP Engineering 'Budget Chassis" with the Italian SME pump motor fitted to them. The model is capable of a scale 4mph and has a tractive effort of 16N.

I love this locomotive with a passion -it is a real jaw dropper at Open Days watching it corner with all the bogies moving and the chains rising and falling is simply unreal. I remember when I first took it to the 'O' gauge Society meeting (it is a 16mm scale model after all..) they were less than delighted to have it on their tracks. However everyone there took at least one photo of it!!!

I hope you enjoy yours as much as I enjoy mine.

regards

ralph

[FJ and G]

Vic, That's great! very creative

[Fletch]

Ron Watson's can round a 2ft radius curve, 1:20.3 scale 3ft gauge (even through the prototype was 42", so Vic's is closer to scale!!!! Dont anyone ever say 22.5 or 1:24 is the wrong scale!!

Ron's is powered much like the prototype via universals and gears via long drive shafts off the central gear box, which is then powered above via another shaft from the vertical Marine engine in the cab. in Ron's case the drive shaft extends through the marine engine into the tender space, where the motor is houses. ..basically from where the marine engine is, down to the wheels follows the prototype practice. It looks and works like the original! The only difference is that Ron used worms on axle gears for each wheel, rather than Shay-like Bevell gears. Its very slow moving and very noisy with the large motor and main drive line going nuts, while the drive wheels just slowly turn over..more here:

http://4largescale.com/fletch/d30.htm





Fletch - for Ron Watson in Auz!

[vsmith]

That is such a cool model!!! mine is a pale imitaion in comparison...[:p]

One of these days I'll try doing a real driveshaft driven version. Need a small machine mill first!

edit, Never mind, I just re-read Fletchs link about the pivots and linkage, now I get it![:I]

Way Cool...I dig geared engines!!!!!!

[Ray Dunakin]

Wow, that Yarra Valley loco is stunning!

[cabbage]

What I have found interesting looking at the three models on the same page is this: Each modeller has unconsiously taken the model and produced a 'local version' of it.

Mine has distinctly English looks to it, Vics has American -it can be said that only the Yarra engine is truest to life as that is Australian. The nearest yet. But to my eyes even that loco has an Australian feel to it.

Curious -when I look at mine I can see that I have automatically styled it in the English manner. I even have an English looking Shay....

regards

ralph

[Fletch]

Sorry Ralph, I dont agree.

Ron's is about as close to the prototype as its possible to build, down to the exact details from the info that was available, we obtained some books dedicated to Price too. Even the large stack references the inservice photos of 2 of the 3 built as operated in NZ. The only thing he altered was to name the loco for his own RR...be that as it may..would it surprise you to know Ron maybe isn't an Auzzie born?

Its hard to talk about British style or otherwise on your model which I consider more an 'engineering' or 'working' model, rather than a detailed model..but even so, you didn't try to gear it per prototype, unline some of your other really exellent working models (which I really like a great deal and prefer over this one). Vic's I agree has some added US features, but is mostly down the line also.

David.

[cabbage]

David,

I do intend to return to this model and attempt to get it to work in the original manner. But that is going to require finding a source of the correct (or modifiable) gear parts. It was the fourth of the 13 models that I have made and I am still very happy with it as an early example of Kitchen Sink Engineering ltd.

I am not happy with the Shay....

However the last completed model off the production line, the Hagans -works in the true original manner. However despite the germanic plumbing and sandboxes and oval windows et al.... I can still see that it should have an oval plate marked Vulcan Engineering Newton-le-Willows on it -rather than Locomitivfabrik Hagans Erfurt on it!!!

The Klose, currently under construction, although as germanic as I can make it -still looks like something off the drawing boards from Avonside(?)

I do not consider myself to be English -although I spent most of my formative years around English and German built locomotives in the Bulawayo shops before we came to England. But as to style -then David -we have to agree to disagree. But as my father always said "Let us agree on the right to disagree!!![:D]"

Thank you again for the information that you have sent me.

regards

ralph

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Fletch

Sorry Ralph, I dont agree.

Ron's is about as close to the prototype as its possible to build, down to the exact details from the info that was available, we obtained some books dedicated to Price too. Even the large stack references the inservice photos of 2 of the 3 built as operated in NZ. The only thing he altered was to name the loco for his own RR...be that as it may..would it surprise you to know Ron maybe isn't an Auzzie born?

Its hard to talk about British style or otherwise on your model which I consider more an 'engineering' or 'working' model, rather than a detailed model..but even so, you didn't try to gear it per prototype, unline some of your other really exellent working models (which I really like a great deal and prefer over this one). Vic's I agree has some added US features, but is mostly down the line also.

David.

BOOKS? [:0]BOOKS? [:0] there are BOOKS of this engine?????????????????[:0][:0][:0]

I've been working off of downloaded pics and using my Climax book details to fill in the gaps...

OK Fletch spill the bean's... WHAT books and WHERE can I get them!!!

[cabbage]

Vic,

The only one I know of that seems to easily available is "Price of Thames" -but I have never been able to get a copy! I too worked off the information on John Garners web site and the pictures there.

regards

ralph

[Fletch]

I better send you a copy Ralph!

Actually Ralph we agree a great deal. The Hagans and the Davidson, and the most recent effort of yours are exactly what I love about your locos. They are exactly like engineering models - they demonstrate 'how' the thing works, even if the finished model is not a high detailed, scale model of the specific prototype..they always work exactly like the prototype. This is a very special type of model and something quite rare in the model RR scene. When you get the 16 wheeler to be like that also, then I'll love that one too as a working model. At the moment, I dont see much in common except 16 wheels.

Where are the 'auzzie' bits on Ron's effort? I'd like to understand that and ask him about it. Certainly he didn't intend it, having built it right off the plans and in-service photos..changes were certainly not something he had intended.

Let me know your current address and I'll mail over some stuff.

David.

[Fletch]

Vic,
you're in pretty good hands with the web site you used for the Price, as most of the info there appears to have come from the book, including the drawings...or is at least the same as what is provided to the book too. Ron contacted the company (which is still in business) and obtained little more. in terms of drawings. However in terms of context, the book is good. Also there are some more photos of the locos in some of the various bu***ramway books. Including the really cool one showing two of the 16 wheelers on this loop line, with one loco on the bridge above the other loco (same image recreated as a painting as shown in 'When Steam was King").

In unique loco designs such as this, it is the engineering design that makes them special.
David.

[TrainFreak409]

Vic, that is amazing. I've been waiting for this one to come out of the shop since I found out you had planned on building it. It truely turned out great.[:D]

[cabbage]

David,

Believe it or not -it is the model figures on the loco. I ignore the couplings -mine has L&B choppers for Heavens sake! But the very pukha and smartly dressed figures could not have come from the small island colony of the period.

On another note if you look at the drawings for the Australian Standard versus the Beyer Peacock version you will see distinct 'stylistic differences' in how they put a locomotive together. When my father (87) with his new 'child bride' (74) was on honeymoon in Oz last year he went to see the last example of the ASG. He took notes and when he got back -he said it looked very Australian...

regards

ralph

[Fletch]

agreed Ralph, I know the Auz styles as well as styles from abroad and altered imports, we were talking about what you saw as an Auz version of the Price in Ron's model..which isn't the case..despite what the figure may look like..the figures are just stock Bachmann dudes from their Climax..ie Americans!!
David.

[cabbage]

Having supped my tea and thought a bit...

I believe it COULD be possible to get a 16 wheeler to operate in the manner of the original on 32mm track. The parts are all Off The Shelf I believe the original Johnston operated in this manner -but I have no drawings to show wether the Price used this system

viz:



regards

ralph

[Fletch]

Now thats cool...Its worth a try Ralph. I think the Price was more like the conventional Climax down the centreline of the trucks. I dont know how the Johnson was done. But it has to work on the model too. Go for it mate!

I'm not sure I saw your finished Davidson..was just before your big move, so i dont recal seeing how it ended up. Does it work OK?

have some fun with it.
Drop me a current address and I'll put stuff in the mail that may be useful.
David.

[cabbage]

David,

The Davidson 12 Wheeler works well -but it is quieter going backwards than forwards for reasons that are unfathomable(?) Everything is still in boxes and my work space consists of a piece of ply over the top of the cooker.....

I will drop you the ER-mail address via E-mail when I get back home to England.

regards

ralph

[vsmith]

Motors done...








in place

maybe based a little too much on marine steam engines but all I really had to go off was the line drawing and the model on Fletch's website, so I used marine engines and the Climax book to fill in as best I could but like I said, its a caricature model, so I'm real happy with it.[:D]

[Fletch]

Looks great Vic...you're on a roll now mate!
What colour are you going to paint the loco?

Great stuff!
David.

[vsmith]

Color? I was thinking along the same lines as the Climax, since they are cousins, sort of and I really like the way the Climax came out. I was thinking...

Black boiler with silver smokebox and stack, black motor, silver frame and body like the Climax and a silver bunker.

Although I could easily paint the whole thing black I think it would look better painted pretty then given a nice coating of grim and rust!

[vsmith]

More progress;


Air pump and piping

Geared thingie undercarraige (smaller than proto but mod'd to fit model, the A/C bricks are bigger than proto so less space)

Overall from front, need to add toolbox on front

Overall from rear, need to add ladder to bunker and roof

I'm learning a lot on this one, scratched alot more than on the Class A. All thats left now is the roof and painting![8D]

[tangerine-jack]

Cool. Now you know that as soon as you get it done Aristo will have one out RTR for under $200.[;)]

Hmm, your new loco and my new railroad.....................Yup, you have to send it to me when you get it done so I can give it a good running in. That's what I would do if I were you- my old buddy, old pal, old bean, old sport..............[:D]

[ttrigg]

Vic:

Why paint? I like the looks of it the way it is! I know, you are after some authenticity. But I still like it!

[vsmith]

Roof is on, generator and bell added, all thats left is adding the ladders to the bunker, only got one issue left, when I built the fuel bunker I originally thought it would be more of a coal burner, but now like its Climax cousin I realized I should build it as a wood burner so I'll need to modify the bunker and remove the bulkhead, anyway pics tonight hopefully [:)]

[vsmith]

Construction FINISHED! whew!








Roof matches the Class A to show a familial tie. There are other American features like the bell, air pump and the generator, but overall I'm really happy the results, next - paint! (after I clean off the workbench)[:D]

[markn]

Beautiful-Vic you are the "Monster Master"

[vsmith]

It painted![:D]



All thats left is weathering!

Heres a side by side comparison with a Big Hauler for size comparison, been raining all weekend so cant take any pics of it on the layout.