The detailed example.....

[RhB_HJ]

Hi all,

Since I'm one of the "crazy guys" who models Swiss Narrow Gauge - more precisely the RhB's(Rhaetian Railway) Albula Line - and LGB is one of the suppliers of rolling stock for that line, it is fitting to do a "How close to the prototype is this stuff" comparison.

Here are the parameters:

1. RhB runs on 1000mm track gauge aka Meter Gauge

2. The scale if using 45mm track is 1:22.5 (slightly rounded according to NEM-MOROP standards)

3. The car that's being measured/compared is a C2012 which has been restore by Club 1889 to the original condition and is used in the museum train consist.

4. The following is how LGB describes their 30340 item

QUOTE: This twin-axle, 3rd class passenger car was acquired in 1889 and was a staple in Rhätische Bahn passenger consists. After many years of service, it was relegated to use as a maintenance vehicle, and in 1998, it was retired. However, the RhB enthusiast group, club 1889, rescued the car, restoring it by hand and returning it to service in 1999. Since then, the C 2012 has been available for special trains on the Swiss narrow-gauge line.
The LGB model is a faithful replica of the original complete with interior furnishings and authentic livery and lettering. With this model, another request of the LGB faithful has been fulfilled.

Following are three drawings with detailed dimensions. Special thanks go to my fellow RhB fan Thomas Hey'l who made the dimension of the original drawing more legible.
The routine of the dimensions is as follows (example of overall length)

Prototype length = 9500mm
1:22.5 scale dimension = 422.2mm
LGB dimension = 447mm
Percentage error = + 5.5%
LGB Scale = 1:21.2



Side elevation





Top view



End view

In the "End View" one finds six items in the 22.0 to 22.9 range, everything else is "something else". BTW not one of the dimensions scales to 1:22.5!

The scale spread goes from 1:16.4 to 1: 24.8!! I guess the

QUOTE: The LGB model is a faithful replica of the original complete with interior furnishings and authentic livery and lettering.

is subject to interpretation or I need a more "flexible" dictionary. [;)][:)][;)] In either case, it would have been nice if it were much closer to "1:22.5".

[ttrigg]

HJ

I guess that is the reason "G" stands for GARDEN and not much of anything else. It is very apparent that there is not really a "G" SCALE!

If it looks good, we run it anyway!

[Capt Bob Johnson]

HJ,
After much study and considerable thought I have come up with the solution to the LGB elastic ruler problem; you need to present them with a steel ruler that will not stretch and shrink willy nilly all over the place! Just think of the service you would provide for the betterment of the hobby!

You know what? They'd probably throw it away and keep on using the elastic one cause they could bend it around the rounded corners!

[Curmudgeon]

"Suitable for Large Scale"

[Anonymous]

After looking through the backlog of posts I cannot find anything that you have built,made or bashed.Could we see some please?

[Puckdropper]

Thinner steel, Capt. Bob. That's all you need.

Of course, there's always 1 foot at -40 degrees and 1 foot at 100 C / 212 F degrees...

[Anonymous]

I myself really don't care about this sort of thing, however if thats what interests you, well go for it and this is the great thing about this hobby, each has his own view and is entitled to it.

For instance i have a good friend in Essex that absolutely hates sound, reckons the best thing about sound is that you can switch it off. Whereas i am really keen on it and spend more on sound systems that i do on rolling stock, yet we can talk to each other about stuff of mutual interest about this interesting and wide ranging hobby.

Our most recent discussion was about track actuated contacts and he helped me a real lot, and now i know a lot more about them and how to use them than i ever thought i would..


Rgds Ian

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadingman

After looking through the backlog of posts I cannot find anything that you have built,made or bashed.Could we see some please?

Arnold Rimmer,

Since I only build RhB stuff I wouldn't want to "bore" anyone with the gritty detail of such an obscure prototype.[;)][:)][;)]

However many of my projects are listed here http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=14 in English and here http://www.rhb-grischun.ca/phpBB2g/viewforum.php?f=18 in German.

Of course to see the detailed step by step "this is how I do it" write-ups you would have to register on the RhB Forum. [;)][:)][;)][:)]

Hint 1: I'm the admin and vet each registration.[^][^]

Hint 2: Many of the "General interest" sections can be read by one and all. [;)][:)][;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Of course to see the detailed step by step "this is how I do it" write-ups you would have to register on the RhB Forum.

I think we can take that as a 'no' then.
I expected as much.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadingman

QUOTE: Of course to see the detailed step by step "this is how I do it" write-ups you would have to register on the RhB Forum.

I think we can take that as a 'no' then.
I expected as much.

Hi there,

I would have loved to send you this by email but since this isn't possible - I guess you have a privacy concern [;)][:p][;)] - this will do.

Since the www.rhb-grischun.ca site (including the fora which run on that site) was established, is maintained and financed by me (not an ad in sight and no membership dues), I also established the clearly stated "Rules" and set the "read only" criteria.
If that does or doesn't suit the potential reader is left to his/her discretion; however, it seems to work for the registered members. [;)][:)][;)][:)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by RhB_HJ

QUOTE: Originally posted by railroadingman

QUOTE: Of course to see the detailed step by step "this is how I do it" write-ups you would have to register on the RhB Forum.

I think we can take that as a 'no' then.
I expected as much.

Hi there,

I would have loved to send you this by email but since this isn't possible - I guess you have a privacy concern [;)][:p][;)] - this will do.

Since the www.rhb-grischun.ca site (including the fora which run on that site) was established, is maintained and financed by me (not an ad in sight and no membership dues), I also established the clearly stated "Rules" and set the "read only" criteria.
If that does or doesn't suit the potential reader is left to his/her discretion; however, it seems to work for the registered members. [;)][:)][;)][:)]

Hmmmmmm.Ok.
I'll still take that as a 'no' then.If you want to make it a personal issue,go ahead.
I asked a straight and fair question.I don't want to register on any old discussion group,I just want you to post,on this forum,everything that you have personally fabricated to your exact measurements.And lots of it.
Arnie.

[Curmudgeon]

"Hmmmmmm.Ok.
I'll still take that as a 'no' then.If you want to make it a personal issue,go ahead."

I do believe the man tried to e-mail you, and explain, and this is why he cannot:

Member Name: railroadingman
Contact Info:
Member Rank:

Total Posts: 64 (Avg/Day: 0.18)
Last Posted: Today - 09:57:50
More About Me
Real Name: Arnold Rimmer
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Yes I have status
Occupation: worn out
Hobbies: Been railroading for many years.Daughter has taught me the delights of the computer.


So, let me explain, since you don't understand.

I will use this word since you have used the name you have....

"You're a smeghead, Rimmer.
The Cat will get you."

Some of us do know all about "Red Dwarf".

Now, if your real name is Arnold Rimmer, well, that would be too strange for comprehension.

So, HJ could have e-mailed you specifics, but you are the one who has slammed the door shut.

Besides, it's his copyrighted material, so I guess yer right....the answer is "no".

Wait until you get a solid hologramatic light drive.......



Dave Lister

[Greg Elmassian]

Woof, what a thread!

Back to the first post, I think LGB took considerable "artistic liscense" with the pharas "faithful replica". Most would interpret that it would be to some consistent scale on most dimensions.

But! This is LGB, well known for "elastic scale" and "selective compression" so this should not be a surprise.

I do think if you want to post and say "here is a bunch of material" you might want to make it easy for people to see.

On the other hand, if someone's interest is high enough, then subscribing to a forum dedicated to a specific subject should not be too onerous.

From my personal viewpoint, it's a pain to add yet another forum to my daily reading list, but if I really want to know something, then, I may have no choice.

To get back to the original topic, I guess my only comment is "sorry you're disappointed by the LGB model", but what they made is pretty much typical for LGB in terms of scale fidelity.

(flamethrowers may now be lit!)

Regards, Greg

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

"Hmmmmmm.Ok.
I'll still take that as a 'no' then.If you want to make it a personal issue,go ahead."

I do believe the man tried to e-mail you, and explain, and this is why he cannot:

Member Name: railroadingman
Contact Info:
Member Rank:

Total Posts: 64 (Avg/Day: 0.18)
Last Posted: Today - 09:57:50
More About Me
Real Name: Arnold Rimmer
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Yes I have status
Occupation: worn out
Hobbies: Been railroading for many years.Daughter has taught me the delights of the computer.


So, let me explain, since you don't understand.

I will use this word since you have used the name you have....

"You're a smeghead, Rimmer.
The Cat will get you."

Some of us do know all about "Red Dwarf".

Now, if your real name is Arnold Rimmer, well, that would be too strange for comprehension.

So, HJ could have e-mailed you specifics, but you are the one who has slammed the door shut.

Besides, it's his copyrighted material, so I guess yer right....the answer is "no".

Wait until you get a solid hologramatic light drive.......



Dave Lister

I'm quite aware of my name thankyou.I was unaware that my email was not in my profile.I'll see if I can get that dealt with when my daughter comes over.However your post was quite uncalled for and I will get in touch with the moderator.
But after all that.
I take it that it's a no.
Arnold Rimmer.

[RhB_HJ]

Hi all, [;)][:)][;)]

Seems I have to "Well, hmmmmmmmmm, errrrrrrrrr.........." a few more times. [:)][:)]

OK,

first: the reason my projects get listed, explained and shown in detail on the RhB Forum is: RhB is what I model; there are enough people who usurp information on the Internet; those who model and are interested in the same will register!

second: those who know me (customers, aquaintances, friends) also know to what accuracy I produce "stuff" (commercial or hobby).

third: the title of this thread is: "The detailed example....." and that is exactly what it is. Complete with juxtaposition of what LGB says and what it actually is.

[TheJoat]

I must be missing something.

I can't figure out why Arnold believes that HJ should post any pictures of every thing that he has built, made or bashed.

I thought the original post was detailing why HJ thought that LGB had produced a less than faithful replica. He seemed to produce some pretty convincing evidence. The quality and accuracy of HJ's own work will not change the fact that the LGB car is not to scale.

[TonyWalsham]

Doesn't anyone else think it odd that a certain Arnold Rimmer ??? starts demanding to see the work of a well known modeller, who is renowned for giving expert and accurate critiques of LGB products immediately after the latest expert critique of an LGB product.
Perhaps this thinly veiled attempt to insinuate that HJ is not deserving of his highly regarded status because he does not publish work here, is not co-incidental.
Maybe it is a crude attempt to divert attention from the point in question by a vested interest. Maybe not.

Just a hypothesis mind you!

[Curmudgeon]

Ah, but all I did was quote from the series.....see the quotes?

Best look it up.
Then, try to figure out what it means.
If it gets past the censors, on regular TV, it flies most places.....

[Anonymous]

Arnold, Rhb_HJ has offered two ways to access the info, neither of which is difficult and offering to email is very gracious of him, but it is your choice...

how to update profile to show your email:
click PROFILE on green bar at top of screen next to the search bar
enter password
click box next to "allow other members to contact you by email"
scroll down and click update -your done

BTW if that is your real name (I'm not saying it isnt) you should be use to refferences to famous caracters without getting sensitive about it, particularly online where yoy can basically put in anything for your name without others knowing whether or not it is actually your name.... look at my last name, then look up the movie taxi driver (70's movie), and then you'll know my brothers name for an example.

Curmudgeon: I personally found it very funny. Arnold, I mean no offence to you.

Rhb_HJ : FYI I just joined your forum just to see what your all about, It sounds interesting, although I'm not going to model it, Id just love to look in once in a while.

[Anonymous]

RhB_HJ , Do you have a link to your garden railway layout photo's ?
Is the catenary on your RhB layout ,hard to maintain outside up there in the North ?
Do you actually power them with the catenary ?
What would be the scale RhB voltage for your trains ?
Thanks


My start in RhB trains ......[:p]

[vsmith]

Wheres Kryten when we need him to help clean up this mess


Love that series

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ccgrc

RhB_HJ , Do you have a link to your garden railway layout photo's ?
Is the catenary on your RhB layout ,hard to maintain outside up there in the North ?
Do you actually power them with the catenary ?
What would be the scale RhB voltage for your trains ?
Thanks


My start in RhB trains ......[:p]

Hi Dennis,

Naturally I'll have catenary!

I'll also be running special classes to train the dogs, jays, pheasants, quails etc. how to pluck the wires to play "Duelling Banjos".

And as soon as that's accomplished I'm sure the bears will show up outside the garden fence and do a little dance.

Right after that it's on to re-programming all the sound units that the whistles can be played to make the rattle snakes dance, too.

When that's done I'll register for the Guiness Book of Records!

Almost forgot: the scale voltage of the RhB is 11'000V : 22.5³ = 1.0355V ± 18 V tolerance to make things work.[}:)][:p][:p][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

I know you can do it .
I have a LGB 2045 RhB [ boxcab loco ] and a Orange LGB loco modified from the boxcabs , also , and I realize it is not a good model , but from the pictures I have found on the net , it looks close enough for me . I have rounded up over a 100 catenary post and wire and etc , and will start catenary operations this spring I hope . May not be scale , but it will be RhB outside on a Garden Railway , useing catenary /overhead wire , a new experience for sure , my difference is , my layout is elevated 3 feet up .
I will be posting some pictures , when I figure out how to post them here !
I have tried twice to join your forum , to learn more of the RhB ......but you never email me the secret word or whatever .
There is a Switzerland County here in Indiana , and a Swiss City , so RhB trains here are a GO !
Does anyone who models the RhB here in North America actually use overhead catenary outside on a Garden Railway ? You know like the magazine and this forum are named , "Garden Railways "?
Or will I be the FIRST ?
[:)]
Say maybe there could be a new forum created somewhere , and it could be named the " Inside a small room in your house Railways Forum " [:p][:D]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ccgrc

.....................................................................
Say maybe there could be a new forum created somewhere , and it could be named the " Inside a small room in your house Railways Forum " [:p][:D]

I sent you an email regarding the question of RhB Forum registration (the question has been edited??), not sure it will get there since that addy of yours dates back to ca. 2004. Since you don't have an email in your profile, that was the best I could do. [;)][:)][;)]

Flying below the radar does have drawbacks. [:D][:D] Having a yahoo.ca mail box is a step up and still allows you to send whatever hits the "Bulk" category straight to the cyber-shredder. [8D][8D][8D]

[Anonymous]

Thanks HJ , I just sent both email address to you [swg]

[Anonymous]

Well here i am an old guy sitting in the sun on the Sunshine Coast, which actually abutts the Coral Sea. And i must say i don't understand too much of this and the subject has left me cold right from the beginning. I don't even understand many of the words; is this an inter North American thing?

What has gone on reminds me of the Battle of the Coral Sea, you Americans would have us believe that you won this battle all by yourselves but of course you didn't; other countries were there as well; my Father in Law served on British battleship in that fight, yet you never hear anything about that!

Few of you American seem to know where the Coral Sea is, alhough you know abit about the battle itself, well it is right here in Queensland Australia, don't you think that is important as well?


Regards Ian.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Well here i am an old guy sitting in the sun on the Sunshine Coast, which actually abutts the Coral Sea. And i must say i don't understand too much of this and the subject has left me cold right from the beginning. I don't even understand many of the words; is this an inter North American thing?

What has gone on reminds me of the Battle of the Coral Sea, you Americans would have us believe that you won this battle all by yourselves but of course you didn't; other countries were there as well; my Father in Law served on British battleship in that fight, yet you never hear anything about that!

Few of you American seem to know where the Coral Sea is, alhough you know abit about the battle itself, well it is right here in Queensland Australia, don't you think that is important as well?


Regards Ian.

Hmmmmmm, one day when we find the time - I'm reasonably certain it will be a joint effort - we'll relent and compile a "common model railroad language" dictionary. In the meantime you just need to apply your unique talents and pick up on some of the lingo.
Most of my German friends seem to have less difficulty than certain native English speakers.



PS I actually looked at the Coral Sea, no they didn't have it marked as such or perhaps the marker got washed away. [;)][:)][;)]

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Well, the nearest I ever got was an Amoco tanker named the "Coral Sea"!

[Paul Stanton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Well here i am an old guy sitting in the sun on the Sunshine Coast, which actually abutts the Coral Sea. And i must say i don't understand too much of this and the subject has left me cold right from the beginning. I don't even understand many of the words; is this an inter North American thing?

What has gone on reminds me of the Battle of the Coral Sea, you Americans would have us believe that you won this battle all by yourselves but of course you didn't; other countries were there as well; my Father in Law served on British battleship in that fight, yet you never hear anything about that!

Few of you American seem to know where the Coral Sea is, alhough you know abit about the battle itself, well it is right here in Queensland Australia, don't you think that is important as well?


Regards Ian.

Hi Ian!
I do know where the Coral Sea is despite being from New Jersey![:D] I am sure that your father-in-law was on the HMAS Australia or the HMAS Hobart at Coral Sea. The Royal Navy was not at the battle, having their own problems at Singapore and Ceylon had something to do with it. The HMAS Australia defended herself well fighting off two determined air attacks. My father was on the USS Morris DD417 at the battle. That was the tin can that is next to the USSLexington while it was burning. The only USN cruiser not named after a city in the USA was the USS Canberra. I, for one, am aware of the sacrifice and effort that Australians endured in the Second World War.

QUOTE "Since I'm one of the "crazy guys"....

On the other hand, I am not so much aware of the RhB and their equipment. I enjoy the reviews and joined the RhB forum to learn more. HJ, I did not know that modelling Swiss Narrow Gauge will have an adverse effect on my mental abilities.[:D] Nah, probably nothing to worry about, right?[:D][:D]

Paul

[Anonymous]

hmmmm Iandor, I give up, what is the similarity between this thread and a coral sea battle?? Could someone please explain, I had 2 people read this thread and none of us couldnt make heads or tails to iandor's coral sea comment. This isnt meant to be argumentative, just lost.....