Buying LGB RhB items on eBay...with PayPal "service"

[RhB_HJ]

Hi all,

Yes, boys and girls, this will be a bit of a rant.

OK, I have been looking for a GREEN Ge 4/4" from LGB at a reasonable price for three years, same goes for GREEN RhB coaches. I struck it lucky and got the engine as a "Buy Now" and won the auction on the car.

Soooooooo, receive the invoices from the seller and proceed to pay via PayPal. All is honky-dory except I can't print out the payment acknowledgement since PayPal has some temporary technical difficulties. Please try again later.
OK, no problem. Tried three more times with the same result. and followed the instructions to check my PayPal account and my VISA account for posted charges. No charges posted! The next try results in a "credit not available" or some such.
So I call PayPal: "Oh, we have some tech difficulties, could you try this method and that method?"
Same result with my Mastercard. All this happened between Nov 24 and 26. On the 28th I call the two credit card issuers "We have four "Authorization pending" here at VISA. And your card is maxed-out". Now the VISA people were very nice and gave me the respective numbers. The Master card people also had four "Authorization pending" items, but they would release the numbers only to PayPal.
OK it's back to PayPal.
"We have no "authorization" numbers from either credit card issuer!"
"Would you please check??"
"Yes, NO numbers, there's nothing we can do without numbers"
"Pass me on to your supervisor, please!"
"She will tell you the same!"
"Never mind, just get me your supervisor!

I'll spare you the next 6 phonecalls to PayPal and the credit card issuers. Finally I, the customer, arrange for a conference call between PayPal and the VISA people.
PayPal -by this time I'm dealing with the International dept - agrees to send a FAX to remove the "Authorization pending" items.
The "authorization pending" items at Mastercard will just have to expire in due course.

Summary: I spent 8 hours on the phone with PayPal customer service; of the 12 or 14 people I spoke with, there are three who are competent enough to hold their respective job (2 agents, 1 supervisor). The remainder exhibited complete ineptitude, acted like they had learned everything by rote, had a problem thinking, were too lazy or dumb to look up what the previous agent had marked in the case file .........and on and on.
Well, I will never be using PayPal again!. Their customer service stinks!

Oh yeah, just as soon as the rest of the mess is cleared up, I'll cancel our PayPal and eBay business account, meantime I'll start removing the "PayPal Payments" logos from our website. I wouldn't want any of our customers to have to go through something similar.

Of course it was only "a small technical problem" at PayPal. Hmmmmm what happens when they have a real problem?

PS If you're using PayPal and you get a 4001 or 3005 error message during the process do not follow the instructions to retry! Instead call them at 650-864-8000 . Also have a look at the phone list at http://paypalsucks.com/PayPalPhoneNumbers.shtml and read the other info on that site

[vsmith]

If its PayPal only, I dont Bid. Period. M.O or no go! It the best way i know....

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

If its PayPal only, I dont Bid. Period. M.O or no go! It the best way i know....

Hi Vic,

Yep, that's what it will be for me, too, from now on!
I figured a little write up on the incompetence of PayPal customer service may save some others the grief. [;)][}:)][:)][:)]

[Anonymous]

i totally agree ill never ever use them.. they were bad before and worse when taken over by ebay. as far as the competency of their workforce . thet are right on par with most of the other i have dealt with lately.

here you guys will like this lots im sure.: my gal was in hospital so while she was in surgery i walked across street to "ploys are us" asked the manager idiot wheres the trains? he tells me what few he has are way back in the back and he does not have many as trains are not nearly as popular as they once were!. uh ok. so i go back to the back and he does have a few ho sets. but also has 2 whole isles of thomas and friends.


shows what kind of folks they hire. this guy is the main manager and dont even know whats in his store. even being thomas they are still trains inho. geez

so the paypal drones surely dont surprise me. did you get the trains you waited so long for after all the crap you had to go through??? best regards, John

[Bucksco]

HJ,
Do you believe in Karma? ;)

[vsmith]

Sorry dude but my Karma ran over your Dogma

[cacole]

Just about every customer service call today is answered by people in India. Many large corporations are even turning over all of their accounting services to companies in India. The people who answer the phones have a script to read and can't deviate from it because they have limited training.

I had a similar experience with a local Internet service provider. Their system was down more than it was working. Their customer service trouble desk was answered by high school students in a small, rural village in North Carolina who were working part-time after school. If your problem wasn't covered in their script or on their computer screen, they were at a total loss and just advised you to take four aspirin and call back later.

[gtrainman1]

HJ,
"Whew!
I thought it was going to be another one of those LGB rants of yours!"
Have you bashed PayPal in the past?
Is there now a Holiday HJ voodo doll availible on Ebay???

[Tom The Brat]

Whew! What a time you've had!

Never had any trouble with paypal myself.

[tangerine-jack]

You are using much nicer language than I did. I can pay for something with PayPal, but not recieve. 6 hours on the phone with some Hindu non English speaking Indian lady at "customer service" (and I use the term very loosely) only netted me a disconnected phone call and I lost over $200 in sales I couldn't recieve. Evidently it is so "secure" that only a thief can access customer accounts, Lord knows nobody at Paypal could.

PayPal is the worst garbage ever thought up by the mind of man. Stick with real money for your purchasing. I will rant right along with you HJ. I am sick and tired of inept brain dead bungling slack jawed lackeys with no authority to do anything working the phones at major corporations. I had a similar bout with the finance company for my car loan. The average call went like this:
" Your late on your payment"
"no I'm not, you auto-draft from my account, how can I be late?"
"we havent' recieved the payment"
"then take the payment from my account, you auto-draft from it"
" you owe us late fees"
"I'm not late, you auto-draft from my account"
"we didn't recieve your payment"
"who's fault is that? You auto-draft from my account"
and so on, and so on, and so on......................

Turns out the billing department has NO contact with customer service, and the payment processing center is it's own entity and has NO contact with customer service or billing. Stupid way to run a buisiness. Finaly I called the Dallas, TX FBI and reported the company for extortion, plus 4 complaints to the BBB and a folder of 27 pages of cerified letters, bank statements and cashed money orders later I got a manger to call me and apologize. Still got a bill for late fees. Jerks and idiots.

Cash or certified check, that's how I do buisiness nowadays. Any type of problem with Paypal is unresolvable and sounds a death knell to your ability to do buisiness through them.[soapbox] Ok I'm done.

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

HJ,
Do you believe in Karma? ;)

Jack,[;)][}:)]

Yes I do, I also know that Murphy has a definite affinity for me. However so far I have prevailed and Murphy has to suck his thumb or whatever it is he's sucking.
Listen buddy, [;)][;)] 13 years ago I bought my first computer and true to form it was the computer from h*e*l*l. True to form - remember I'm a very stubborn Swiss who's been in the problem solving business for thirty years - I pestered the local techies for eight or ten weeks, then the 'puter from h*e*l*l went back to the maker, got a new motherboard complete with memory and I was on my way.
And what did the eight to ten weeks teach me? Learn how to do it yourself! Wellllllll, back in Ontario all my friends would call, drop by or email if they had 'puter problems. So much for karma, eh!!??
BTW EPL , LGB and LGBoA get annoyed when they deal with half-way savvy computer users, it seems some of us are often in the right place at the right time to scoop the News of the Year items. Just ask the blokes at EPL or Frances or Dave B. [;)][;)][:D][:D][:D]

[Curmudgeon]

or a polar bear.....

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gtrainman1

HJ,
"Whew!
I thought it was going to be another one of those LGB rants of yours!"
Have you bashed PayPal in the past?
Is there now a Holiday HJ voodo doll availible on Ebay???

Kenny my boy,

They are all out of HJ voodoo dolls and I know who bought them. [;)][}:)][:D][:D]

You know when I told Jack that I have 30 years of problem solving experience, I forgot to tell him: that was in my former life. In my present life I still solve problems, but to make life more interesting all the way around, I delight in shining a very stark light on areas where I see problems, be they in model railroading or whatever. Much to the chagrin of ...... well you know a few of the people, don't you?[:p][}:)][}:)][:p]
As far as the pals at PayPal, as is my habit I don't just vent and complain; the letters to PayPal, eBay USA and eBay Canada are sealed in the envelopes, stamped and ready to go. As you could guess, they are in true HJ style, no insults, no swearing, but very concise and pointed English. That usually gets their attention.
I know you don't read on the RhB Forum, but not long ago there was a certain little episode with FedEx, where a certain parcel travelled pack and forth across the Atlantic three times before it got to HJ.
Well, FedEx was so impressed with my emails and phone calls, the very day after the long lost parcel they delivered a large, complementary gift basket all the way from Montreal ( that's ca. 3500miles). [;)][;)]
Some karma, eh??

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Hall

i totally agree ill never ever use them.. they were bad before and worse when taken over by ebay. as far as the competency of their workforce . thet are right on par with most of the other i have dealt with lately.

here you guys will like this lots im sure.: my gal was in hospital so while she was in surgery i walked across street to "ploys are us" asked the manager idiot wheres the trains? he tells me what few he has are way back in the back and he does not have many as trains are not nearly as popular as they once were!. uh ok. so i go back to the back and he does have a few ho sets. but also has 2 whole isles of thomas and friends.


shows what kind of folks they hire. this guy is the main manager and dont even know whats in his store. even being thomas they are still trains inho. geez

so the paypal drones surely dont surprise me. did you get the trains you waited so long for after all the crap you had to go through??? best regards, John

Hi John,

They're as good as on the way! First sign of trouble I called the seller and asked her :"Can you bear with me?" Well, they had their fill of PayPal "fun" and had no problem.
Of course I should relate the rest of the story, some of the members here know and consider me as a persistent pain in the b*u*t*t and they're right I am very persistent! Thirty years of successful trouble shooting and problem solving leave marks. Anyway, since the PayPals had been talking through their hats, the problem at VISA had been straightened out and there was room on Mastercard credit, as well as the seller nicely sending me a PayPal "Money Request", I set about paying same.
First I called up PayPal customer service and asked them for assistance. Told them I'm on the different computer, using the different browser, the cache is emptied and the cookies deleted, are you ready to assist? (in short all the bullroar they were trying to give me earlier was by-passed)
Had them walk me through the same thing, got the same error, told the lady immediately to connect me with the supervisor, she insisted to get technical advise first. Ten minutes later comes back and tells me "we have technical glitches" (really!!??) I ask for the supervisor, she wants to know why. I tell her that I want to know since when they're aware of the technical glitches, she balks "The supervisor won't tell you" "Just get the supervisor!"
Three minutes later the supervisor is on "Sorry we don't really know yet!" Back and forth for another three minutes and finally the supervisor says: "We can not guarantee that we can fix the glitches in the near future. The only thing I can suggest is paying the seller outside the PayPal system." Well, at least he was honest!

Sooo tomorrow I'll go to the bank, get a money order and forget about PayPal.

Errrrrrrrr not really, top "customer service" like that deserves a bit of "advertising".
Of course I also called the seller tonight. Everything is ship-shape and will be shipped by USPS - I told you the story about the couriers, didn't I?? [;)][;)][}:)][:)]

PS They have a big fat case file on me at PayPal, they also have plenty of tape to listen to my distinctive Swiss-Canadian accent; the only thing they haven't got yet is compliments of the season. karma anyone?

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Curmudgeon

or a polar bear.....

Hi Dave,


[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

Yes, or a Polar bear!

[RhB_HJ]

Hi all,

I just received one more "standardized" PayPal customer service survey.

What a pleasure to have the opportunity to tell them once more how inept they are!

Of course it has occured to me that the PayPal customer survey could be a close relation to the "LGB Ideas Box" i.e. send it off and hope for the best.
With one distinction: I can follow the fruitition of some of the suggestions to LGB, I won't bother with PayPal! [}:)][:)][}:)]

PS Yesterday I had the opportunity to tell a freshly minted PayPal member in person to watch out for the pitfalls. His answer: "In that case I won't bother! I don't need the hassle!"[;)][:)][;)] One member at a time!

[gtrainman1]

Hi HJ,

Your starting to get a little soft, so I read.. If your not careful, many Folk may get the wrong idea and start to believe you actually hate the PayPal Folk more than EPL / LGB. [:O] [}:)][:D][:D][;)][banghead]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gtrainman1

Hi HJ,

Your starting to get a little soft, so I read.. If your not careful, many Folk may get the wrong idea and start to believe you actually hate the PayPal Folk more than EPL / LGB. [:O] [}:)][:D][:D][;)][banghead]

Well Kenny,

Hate is a complete waste of time!

Dislike on the other hand is not. It allows you to write completely rational letters to the "targets", pass on recommendations to others in person or on the Internet and get all the "advertising" out there which they so rightfully deserve.

On a personal note: I seem to remember you mentioning that you work in the PR field. [?][?]
Of course we all have to make a living, but my life-long experience with PR people - including those yokels who come up with advertising slogans which are, at best, misleading - has been disappointing. They are excellent talkers, but have a real problem delivering the goods they talk about in such a grand fashion.

I'm sure you don't want me to start listing examples in the Large Scale field, or do you???[}:)][}:)][:p][:p][:D][:D] [;)][;)]

[Anonymous]

I gave up on paypal when I was on hold to get my password that I forgot, 1/2 hour wait NO thank you.

[RhB_HJ]

Hi all,

Well, the items arrived safe and sound



complete with bonus: some passengers in the coach, one engineer in each cab. Mind you the engineers have a definite germanic appearance, but I'll send them to the helvetic reform class and they'll be fine.
Oh, the engine and the car are just as listed: Pristine Condition!

A special little note for all the rabid LGB collectors/fans. I have often been accused that I delight in bashing LGB .......... man you guys are spot on. I needed a third one of the GREEN coaches to get two prototypical cars. Yep, there will be more LGB bashing. [;)][}:)][}:)][:D][:D][:D]

Update on the PayPal saga:
Received an email from a person at
"Executive Escalations
PayPal, an eBay Company "

QUOTE: I appreciate your feedback about the level of customer service PayPal
provides to its members and would like to take this opportunity to
address your concern. I apologize if you feel that we have not
delivered the level of customer service you were expecting from PayPal.
We make every effort to respond quickly, accurately, and thoroughly to
the concerns and questions we receive by email or telephone. Your
feedback is valuable and presents an opportunity to evaluate and
continuously improve the level of service we provide to our members.


We're sorry to hear you're thinking about closing your PayPal Account.
We value you as a customer, and ask that you carefully reconsider your
decision. If you think there is a chance you may want to use our service
in the future, it is not necessary to close your account. You're welcome
to use your account as much or as little as you wish.

Hmmmmmmmmm very interesting!
At least there was a link included to close our accounts, that is much appreciated.
And that is the end of the PayPal saga.

[Bucksco]

LGB is worth the extra effort !

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

LGB is worth the extra effort !

Yes Jack![;)][:D][:D]

You know I now have one Ge 2/4, one Ge 4/4" and two Ge 6/6'. It is time to do some more measuring and then post the "LGB is worth the extra effort" results. [:D][:D]
Oh yeah I already know that the "205" is the most accurate of the lot, I just haven't "published" the results yet. [;)][;)][:)][:D][:D]

[kimbrit]

Just bought a Sumpter Valley mallet, luckily the seller knows all about Pay Pal and had patience whilst I tried to hack my way through the jungle. In the end I paid the limit - why do they limit how much you can pay? - of £500 and sent a cheque for the rest. Useless ba**ards. If they think I'm giving them my bank account details they can think again.
Cheers,
Kim

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Just bought a Sumpter Valley mallet, luckily the seller knows all about Pay Pal and had patience whilst I tried to hack my way through the jungle. In the end I paid the limit - why do they limit how much you can pay? - of £500 and sent a cheque for the rest. Useless ba**ards. If they think I'm giving them my bank account details they can think again.
Cheers,
Kim

I concur, my esteemed colleague! Paypal is second worst company on the face of the planet. They couldn’t even help me after I gave them my bank information, first wife's mother's maiden name, note from my third grade teacher, and a personal voucher from G duble'ya. In the end I lost over $200 in sales. Since I have no time to learn Hindi in order to communicate with Paypal cutomer service, it’s cash on the barrel head for me from now on.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

That sounds like me with verizon service, I finally called and said I want to talk to somebody who speaks and Understands english, and if i can't I'm gonna dump a couple thousand shares on the market and help depress your stock price and tell the press why I'm doing it! Quickly got some guy in NY. I could understand him even though he was talking brooklyn!

[Bucksco]

There are many ways to "measure" quality.

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

There are many ways to "measure" quality.

Not sure what you are referring to, but in my opinion the first question on quality is "does it work"? Then "does it work when I need it to"? Paypal fails the first two questions of "quality". In my experience they have no way of fixing a problem. Useless.

[Bucksco]

"You know I now have one Ge 2/4, one Ge 4/4" and two Ge 6/6'. It is time to do some more measuring and then post the "LGB is worth the extra effort" results."

There are many ways to "measure" quality.

[Anonymous]

Very interesting and entertaining reading. Thanks guys.

[tangerine-jack]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bucksco

"You know I now have one Ge 2/4, one Ge 4/4" and two Ge 6/6'. It is time to do some more measuring and then post the "LGB is worth the extra effort" results."

There are many ways to "measure" quality.

Ah-ha! That clarifies things. Thanks.