The Bridge That Never Was Pictures.Update-12-05-05

[bman36]

Ian,
Gave this some thought. What if you continued the viaduct on the other side of the bridge following the curve??? Would seem more natural to me and give the look of being next to a rock cut. Not sure how you plan to fini***he curve but as I see it the underside of it needs filling in. Rgds eh...Brian.

[ghelman]

Ian,
How steep is that grade on your new section? From the pic it looks real steep. If so are your locos having any problems with the climb?

[Anonymous]

Ian, if I ever want a quart squeezing into a pint pot then you will be my first choice! You have fitted it all in and it looks good, where is the track going to behind the pump house? Any chance of a look down photo from on top of the pump house roof or can you bring a track diagram with you when you come over.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

I am not surprised that no one was interested in these developments; they are interestingand have some substance. Some one is actually doing somethng and overcoming small as you go problems, instead of talking about imaginary things.


rgds Ian

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Thyanks troy for the new post.

Much progress has been made.

1) we made a nice little piece of track that will connect the track on the viaduct up with the R3 points on the bridge and the Mallet went around it ok, slowly: no hitting on anything. ( arches are removed at this stage)

2) We then bent a 3.6 m (12') piece of track in a correct curve and connected it to the points and laid it around the curved piece that the pylons support and it went right around it ok, even pulling some rolling stock at speed and in both directions with no trouble.

3) However it missed the pump house wall by only a millimetre or so, also we had some spring iin the ramp sections particularly the ones over the railway track and to the left of it. We have now moved all the pylons slightly and changed a geometry a bit and we think we have a winner.

However we have other responsibilities for a few days and it will be a little while before we get back on it again, but we are quite hopeful.


Thank you very much all for youe interest and please do not hesitate to critscise in any way that is constructive that is what this is all about.

Rgds Ian

[underworld]

Ian You are correct that I don't have much personal experience with garden railway....as I don't have a garden. I am putting together a 1/32 scale gauge 1 tinplate railway in my apartment. I didn't realize that the spur would only be 200mm, I thought it would continue. I do look forward to seeing your projects progress.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[bman36]

Ian,
Looking really interesting. Have you finalized the bridge design yet? Rgds eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Yeah rusty;

This matter has taken a bit of a new turn and it is looking a lot more hopeful, Troy will be posting some new pics soon.

We are building in concrete and pseudo concrete.


Rgds Ian

[ghelman]

Ian,

I will wait for some more pics. I am interested in your problem. I did have a similar problem once when I built a small "A" bridge next to a small radius. My train sweeps hit the outside corner of the "A" frame. I didn't build it wide enough. Sounds like you may have more than one isue though. One question.

Is that fence post causing you additional problems?

[Anonymous]

Chompers mate that is exactly what i am doing all my points are RS electrics, but even so I sense troible brewing for me and if iy does I don't quite know what to do about it, but thanks for the input.


Rgds Ian

[Anonymous]

Thanks Rusty mate, just what I was looking for, but I disagree with you as follows.

1/ We never meant it to really look like the Goodwill bridge and what you have said about it being a pedestrian bridge was already covered at the beginning. We just used the Goodwill Bridge as a nice model and idea to start with and i think it does look to be of similar ilk.

2/ We are not interested in trestles, particuarly wooden ones. The look I have been working toward all along is typical of Europe; old right next to the new, ie a microwave tower next to the original 200m running track at Olympia (Ive seen it myself). More; early 20 th century central Europe and concrete or stone construction

We have made great headway over the last week and i'll get Troy to post some pictures posted.

We have put down some 8 concrete pylons and foundations which will allow me to lay about 8 metres of track to the right of the bridge. These will support a pseudo concrete ramp going through 1.1 m radii curves and a 4 % gradient.

But my problem is still in the balance and that is the geometry of bridge track section.

a) Larger rolling stock and locos curving around onto the ramp
b) The geometry to do with the far end of the bridge as the track will curve around to the right and go behind the pumphouse into the upper deck of a double decker tunnel.

Again any advice or critiscism about this matter in any direction at all wuillbe appreciated. My reason for even mentioning anything on this forum is to try and get people thinking about the technicalities of building something different in a garden railway rather than the humdrum stuff they talk about.

Regards
Ian

[Chompers]

You could use an R3 switch on the viaduct, that would help with the overhang. not as steep of a curve

[ghelman]

Ian,

I have thought about this a little more. The Goodwill bridge looks to have low sweeping arches that converge. Not exactly what you would see on a RR. I am not sure you will get the right height for locomotive passage and still maintain a bridge that resembles the Goodwill Bridge. The arches will probably always be a little out of proportion. I think the longer the bridge the less you would notice it.

[Anonymous]

I edited Ian's photo a bit, though not the best at it but this was my idea visually.


Just wanted to make sure everyone understood what my idea was.

The pic didn't post for some reason I'll fix it later I'm late for work[:0]

[ghelman]

Ian,

I'm not an expert GRRer but, I do tend to try different things and try to make them work for me in a particular situation. It sounds like you would like some honest constructive feedback. I have taken a look at pics of the Goodwill Bridge Brisbane on the net. It doesn't look anything like what you have pictured. From what I can gather it is a pedestrian bridge. Also there is no mainline or turn out coming from the middle of the Goodwill Bridge. To me, the bridge even if you get it looking just like the Goodwill Bridge will still look out of place running as you have it now. I think trestles would look better and much more appropriate. The Goodwill Bridge you want to build would look much better standing by itself. It’s going to be a focal point in your RR. Your fence and wall will always take that away. All that really doesn't matter if you like what the bridge looks like and you want one on your layout in that location. So, what about building a viaduct that has the switch to the mainline before the bridge(as Matt suggested)? Continue the viaduct around to the wall. Have you thought about making the bridge out of metal? Brass or even aluminum. I believe a good scale model of that bridge could be made from wood and painted. But, not marine plywood. Redwood or cedar cut and made to look like the bridge. The pics of the bridge that I have found aren’t very good. Does anyone have better pics or drawings of this bridge? I'd like to try and build one. If it works I would be glad to share the details.

[Anonymous]

Jack, thanks for the idea but it is very hard to change that now and in any case i think It will affect my 1.1 m Radius curve, and I have very little room overall. Mat and the same to you only in reverse.

Vic, this is not a critique of you or your thread, nor do i care about appeal, more an observation of the level of outlook of many of the people on this forum. Please don't take offence about this something else maybe but not this.

Underground: i cannot understand your thinking for the life of me; I understood it more when I read you live in an apartment block, so you must have very little experience with anything to do with garden railways, truly who would have a spur 200 mm long, what would you do with it? i guess this is why you have never seen anything like it and the same to you Vic.

I have two concerns and thay are both to do with larger running stuff.;

1) As my Mallet curves to the right it has a fair outhang out the back and i am concerned that its left rear section will hit the fence post or the rear of the left arch.

2) Many of my larger carriages, ie the ICE train and the Golden Mountain have a lot of swing between the bogies (trucks) and it will foul the rear part of the right hand arch.

To this end I intend to get the whole thing working without the arches and then try to add them.

Further to this business about the spur line, I have already said the small branch to the right is just the beginning of my main line and it will be a circular track 40 m long, so it is hardly a spur. Most of this circle is already finished.

I have already done the geometry and it looks ok but it is marginal and I will keep you all informed as i go. Troy will post the pictures for me. Social responsibilities aside I hope to have something in a week.


Rgds Ian

And thanks fpor the interest and please keep your thinking caps on.

[Anonymous]

Ian, I must have missed this thread altogether some how. Anyway I think the bridge would look fine attached at the Viaduct where it is. However i think if it were me I would put the switch on the viaduct right before the bridge andfork the viaduct with it's pier in between the lower two tracks. more believable in my opinion. Also this would inable a larger radius going into the curve.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

Well people;

i got no more views or interest and this compares unfavourably with Vics ever shrinking subject. It would appear that most people on this forum are more interested in "not doing something" rather than "doing something".

Rgds ian

I'm a little put off by this comment, I have to ask, just why does it matter so much that the view count is lower than you thought it would be compared to a topic thats been active for almost a year? Seams an unfair comparison.

As I have said before, no is more surprised by the number of hit on my thread than I am, but also remember that it has been actively updated for almost 1 year, and as for "not doing something" I had to tear out half my layout, then replan everything left and then rebuild what I had, I ended up doing 3 major rebuilds over the course of the last year tyring to fit the best possible operational type layout into a very tight space, it takes more planning than just laying a loop down in the backyard, if thats "not doing something" then I'd hate to see an idea of what "doing something" is..

Also my thread was meant to demonstrate doing large scale in a small space, much smaller than most consider do-able for G gauge trains, I suspect its that aspect and the fact that I ended up posting close to 10 variations of plans, from loop to point-to-point, all in a small area , that has drawn the most interest, as that is what I have recieved the most positive comments on.

Personally if everyone stopped reading my thread, I wouldnt sweat it, its there for me to keep track of the changes and progress I've made, thats why I posted it. If others get something out of it, thats good but thats not why I posted it.

Has anyone been looking at my Class A Climax building log?, no, not really, or my Bachmann'LGB Porter ba***hread? same deal, a few comments, some hits, then zip. I dont worry about it, it will end up on page 112 eventually as will the 'shrinking RR" thread.

Just build this bridge, chronicle it and keep updating the thread. It will get read. If thats what you're looking for. [8D]

[underworld]

Ian, I DO like this bridge! I am just curious about the spur as I have never seen anything like this before.

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Rastun]

Ian,

Would it be possible to position the turnout and the curved base for it closer to the pump house wall? From the looks of it if you could gain a few cm like 10 or so the over hang wouldn't be a problem.

Another theory make the arches longer and taller to keep the shap but let them start up closer to the viaduct.

Keep us posted, I really like to see you work.

Jack

[Anonymous]

Well people;

i got no more views or interest and this compares unfavourably with Vics ever shrinking subject. It would appear that most people on this forum are more interested in "not doing something" rather than "doing something".

However I have made considrable headway with this subject and with Troys help will be posting some new pics soon, and I hope I can stir up some interest in a very interesting and challenging part of Garden Railways. I am actually doing something and overcoming problems that you all may face in the future if you ever get to having reasonable layout.


Rgds ian

[Anonymous]

Brian I must agree, in the middle of the viaduct would have been terrific but it is too late to do that now and I'm sorry.

We can get panels that will fit each fence panel painted for about $150 each by some "alternative" people nearby and they suggested a rain forest.

If we wrap it around both ends it should change things a lot for the better.

I was thinking about your layout the other day and something like this could look ok! That is why i gave the idea of getting a look at the original bridge itself. Get into Google and look up Goodwill Bridge Brisbane.

Thanks again for your view and suugestions I need some more like it, that is what this forum should be all about!

Rgds Ian

[bman36]

Ian,
Something is not quite right with it's location. From what I see the high arch looks good with the viaduct but not against the wall. I'm thinking a painted backdrop needs to be there or a shrub to hide the wall. A scene like that would fair well in the wide open. I'm picturing a viaduct on both sides of the arch bridge. For that particular scene the wall of the (shed? or pumphouse?) brings what was flowing nicely to an abrupt halt. Make sense??? Definately a unique structure for a RR. Rgds eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Brian mate; do you think the bridge looks odd with the viaduct? If you do this is the feedback we are looking for, we thought so ourselves but when we saw an actual print of the photo, it looked pretty good.

Since we have painted it and roughly put the rest of the support material in place it looks entirely different and Doreen is pretty kean to carry on with what we are doing, not so sure myslef though.

I dont have any drawings but I do have a template of the bridge and the arches; we do a lot of this; make a cardboard template first then see if it fits and how it works. Then Doreen transfers the matrix onto marine ply and I cut it out with my jigsaw (saber saw)
it has worked for us with just about all the curves and ramps we have done so far!

The actual proportions of the "Goodwill Bridge" is 475 m long, arches 100 m above the deck and the deck is 13 m above the Brisbane River. I think you will find out a fair bit about it on the internet if you look under Goodwill Bridge; Brisbane from that you will see the actual concept from which we drew our ideas.


Rgds ian

[bman36]

Ian,
Do you have any drawings??? Looks rather odd to me. Even a mock up in cardboard would be great to see as you see it finished. Rgds eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen;

What some of you have said, actually most of what has been said is in our minds.

That remark about getting rid of a few arches of my viaduct will cost you a few beers Kim, when I get over there; no we do not want to do that unless we have too. The idea of modifying the fence has occured to us and if we must we must, but that will be a last resort.

What we have decided to do is to remove the arches and complete the bridge without them but we will paint the arches and be ready to use them once we are happy with the bridges operation wihout them.

To complete the bridge we have added 25 mm sides to it to hold the ballast, drilled 6 mm weep holes in its base, as we have done with our ramps. We then painted the lot with a thick grey paving paint as well, we have painted the insides of the weep holes using a cotton bud. The base of the bridge is now in place and we have worked out that we neeed to put 2 pylons underneath it to give us better rigidity and be in keeping with the other work we have done elsewhere.

We are waiting on two R3 electric points I bought on ebay and another shipment of track. When they arrive we will connect the whole thing up and try to run our Mallet over it as far as we can, and observe same carefully.

Some of the ideas we have to make it fit and work is :

a) cut off the rear arch and attach it to the fence post.
b) raising both the arches and possibly move them to the left.
3) cut a bit out of the fence post so that the rear of the Mallet will not foul it when turning.

Any ideas that anyone has will be appreciated.

What you ghad to say Underworld did not fill me with confidence that you are seriously considering this matter. And it is a serious and interesting subject.


Regards


ian

[underworld]

The bridge that never was.......wih a spur to nowhere! [:)] I like it!

underworld

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]