Cultural exchange for my overseas friends

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts


When the Wessex kings began to organise themselves they had self regulating districts around tribal centres.(around the 8th century).These were called Scirs.
In each Scir was a representative of the King called a Reeve.
From this,Scirs became Shires


Fascinating isn't it.I love this sort of thing.There are loads more.Give me a placename.
Troy

Which Shire did Bilbo live in?????[:o)]

[Anonymous]

How many Sussex's have you got in the US?
Did every pilgrim insist on having one each [(-D]

[tangerine-jack]

Here in Virginia, you can live in a city or a county, but cities are not in counties because when the population of a county reaches 10.000 it incorporates into a city. Our place names are a mishmash of native Indian names and English names. We have cities names after English kings and queens ie: Jamestown, Williamsburg, etc. counties such as Sussex, Pricess Anne, Northampton. We also have the Eastern Shore, which is still part of Virginia, but acutally on the Maryland side of the Chesapeake Bay but is more or less independant. Near Petersburg we have Bermuda Hundred, which was settled by freed slaves and is not a political entity but an area in Chesterfield county. Thats what you get when you live in a "Commonwealth", not a "State"

[oX)]

[Capt Bob Johnson]

OK, I'll go with the flow, and since we're really getting into this stuff we have something a bit unusual here in Delaware; Hundreds! They were generally named for geographic features or areas.

Up North, in New Castle County, you might live in Brandywine Hundred, ot Christiana Hundred. Kent County in the middle of the State has it's Hundreds like Little Creek, etc.
Down here in Sussex County you could be in Lewes and Rehoboth Hundred, Indian River Hundred, Baltimore Hundred, or the like. (Delaware is so small it only has 3 Counties)

Where did this subdivision come from? Supposedly it was the area from which a hundred militiamen could be raised prior to and during the Revolutionary War. City limits are not necessarily the boundries of the Hundred. Some Hundreds do not have a formal city within them, but are completely comprised of rural terrain.

Something tells me that our Brit friends may take umbrage at this bit of history, but it is real. Even today's deeds usually state which hundred the property lies within!

[grandpopswalt]

Troy,

Thanks again. I live in southern new england in the state of Connecticut.. The name is from the Algonquian indian language and means "the place of the long river". This area was first settled in the early 1600's by english folk seeking to escape the restrictive religious regime that had been established in the Massachusetts colony.

Here's a partial list of towns around me: New London, Groton, Cheshire, Wallingford, Essex, Manchester, New Britain ..................... you get the idea. I live in Deep River which is in Middlesex county. Until 1947 our town was a part of Old Saybrook which today is to our south. Saybrook was named after two English lords, Saye and Brooke who had received a grant of ownership from the crown, again, sometime in the early 1600's.

A neighboring town, Essex, was attacked and burned to the ground by the British Navy in the war of 1812 and I'm not sure we've forgiven you for that yet. If a British man-of-war were to make it's way into Essex harbor today I think some of the old timers might very well lay a few shots over it's bow. Other than that, we love you.

Walt

[Anonymous]

I think this page, and the information presented therein, is of great importance to Americans who are modeling an English Railroads.

The ads are important being that that is the main source of funding keeping the mag going (at least in my understanding of modern magazine practices.)

Welcome to the forum!!!

[Capt Bob Johnson]

While a fairly restrained explanation of buggery was given, it might have been more fitting to have pointed readers to the works of C. S. Forester, Dudley Pope, Alexander Kent, and others of that genre. One could also liken it to the modern day gay Marriage???

Anyhow, while we are all learning a lot from this thread, I ain't getting a lot of rairoading advise to file away for future use!

Somewhere in here somebody said something along the lines of take away all the adverts any you are left with about 5 pages of info in the mag. That statement isn't really all that far off base; and that being the case, perhaps they should give us all our subscriptions for free.

[Anonymous]

Don't do Wales.They don't like us,and We don't like them.Leave them to the rain and sheep.

[Anonymous]

This is great, I am impressed by the nexus of knowledge being generated here.

Now, Welsh names...just kidding?!

[Anonymous]

Usually the 'esters' date back to Roman times.They were known as 'castra' meaning fortified or walled town.Later in the Saxon times they were rebuilt and known as 'ceasters'
Thus with time the 'ceaster' becomes 'ester 'or even 'xeter.'Todays cities end up as Winchester,Manchester,Doncaster,Exeter and,er..I can't think of any more off hand!
A lot of cities in the US were named by the settlers who used the familiar names of Engli***owns.Without a thousand years of history behind them they have no meaning apart from that.Just a name.
Any more.This is one of my pet subjects [:D]

[grandpopswalt]

Troy,

Thanks for the history lesson, it's absolutely fascinating. Here's another for you: how about the suffix "ter" as in Glouster or Manchester, etc?

Walt

[Gary Crawley]

Place Names
I believe this is a science and a very interesting to study, it's amazing how many names and expressions there are throuhout the world.
Here in Australia most of our towns have aboriginal names (translated to english) eg Canberra, (meeting place) Wollongong, Conjola, Nowra, etc.
Wagga Wagga (means 'crow' and the repetition of the word expresses the plural.)
Many of our landmarks named after our early settlers are being changed back to their traditional names eg, Ayers Rock, (Uluru) The Olgas (Kata Tjuta)
Don't worry if you can't pronounce them we can't either.
Of course we still have our British heritage (Victoria, Queensland, Gloucester, Strattford etc)
But not to upset our American friends we even have a town called Texas in Southern Queensland.
I would like to wish you all a Happy New Year and I hope you have a great 2005.
Regards
Gary

[Anonymous]

When the Saxons conquered Southern England,we still keep the names,

West Saxons=Wessex
South Saxons=Sussex
East Saxons=Essex
The ones in the middle ,jep you guessed it
Middlesex.
When the Wessex kings began to organise themselves they had self regulating districts around tribal centres.(around the 8th century).These were called Scirs.
In each Scir was a representative of the King called a Reeve.
From this,Scirs became Shires
The Scir Reeves became Sheriffs(still a word for policeman in the US I believe.)
The ford one is easy
Ford=a river crossing.
All the villages around where I live end with 'den' This means woodland or swine pasture.
Tenderden was the swine pasture or 'denn' of Tenetwaru (from Thanet) In the year 1179 it was called Tentwardene which has corrupted into Tenterden.
Fascinating isn't it.I love this sort of thing.There are loads more.Give me a placename.
Troy

[grandpopswalt]

To my English friends,

Let me extend this thread a little further. Can you explain to us non-brits the genesis of the suffixes "shire" as in Yorkshire and "sex" as in Essex? Also, "ford" as in Waterford.

Happy New Year to you all!

Walt

[Anonymous]

Thank you Ian P,
That was very informative and well put. I see you too are having to fight "toll roads." They are trying to intorduce it to South Texas. Remember, they can only rebuild the toll booths so many times after fires!!!

I know you might not be big on Thomas Jefferson but he one said something to the effect of...

"A little revolution every now and then is a good thing. Occasionally the tree of Liberty must be refreshed witht he blood of patriots and tyrants."

Wilkes and Liberty!!!! I would definately fight "City Hall" on toll roads!!

[powlee]

Capt
I had left it to my countrymen to explain the complexities of the divides of `ye old british folk`. In the absence of Kim, here goes.
The UK is divided into four countries, England ,Wales,Scotland and Northern Ireland. There is an Ireland which is independent but we do not need passports or any other paperwork to visit it. The whole lot are ruled over by the Queen who has no say in the running of the country. That is left to the `great god` Prime Minister Tony Blair.
Each country is divided into Counties overseen by Councils elected by the people who live in those counties. We pay our rates to the council (who attempt to use it fairly for our benefit) and our taxes to the British government (no comment). In ancient times these counties feuded with one another. Lancashire and Yorkshire actually fought a war known as the `War of the Roses` which ended with the death of the english king.
This is where it gets complicated. In 1965 many counties were banded together to become Greater London. Many councils disappeared but still remain in name only. So instead of residing in East Bedfont in the county of Middlesex, I reside in East Bedfont in the Greater London Borough of Hounslow. We pay our rates (or Poll Tax as it was once known) to Hounslow ( who attempt to use it fairly for our benefit).
Greater London is presided over by a Mayor ( a recent addition to local government) whose name is Ken Livingstone known to some as `Red Ken` due to his political beliefs.
There has been a forward step to preserve our county names by the peasants. I still put Middlesex and a post code(zipcode) on all my mail instead of London and a zip code. The name still exists on roadsigns on the County borders.
The Mayor introduced a system where any road vehicles passing through Central London have to pay a toll. This was intended to alleviate traffic congestion and in some case works. He now wants to extend west. Soon we we won`t be able to afford to move our cars off of the front yard.
The Poll tax when introduced some years ago caused some very violent riots. Every now and again us Brits get upset and make a stand. Maybe we could erect a wall around Middlesex and declare independence. Smacks of Will Travers and his boys down in San Antonio, what.
Anyway I sure I have left something out but hopefully it helps.
A Happy New Year to you and your family and to all our readers.
Ian P

[Anonymous]

Happy New Year My friends, I still have some two hours to go at this posting but you blokes in the future are already there!!!

[Anonymous]

Well from an Aussie point of view, bugger is not oly a foul word but it is extemely bad; and the act of buggery is something i would not discuss with too many people.. However lets just say it brings a long gaol (jail) sentence in this country and it its to do with soddomy and i think animals are involved but i'm not sure of the exact details. However when it comes down to every day use it is a "household" word here in Aus and I used it myself many times, untill i found out roughly what it means and if Rene closed us all down i wouldn't blame her.

This business of dividing the country up does vary from place to place even when in the same country. It becomes even more complex when you have three levels of politics as do we. It also becomes more complex when you get really official, like in court documents; they bring parishes and all that sort of stuff, in a country where less than 25 % of the people believe in god. It is also very complex if you own land to describe exactly where it is again parishes are involved and many other things to do with surveying

I live in Kawana Island, which is part of the City of Caloundra, which is part of the Sunshine Coast in the State of Queensland, Australia.

Before I retired i lived in Chipping Norton, which was part of the City of Liverpool, which in turn was part of the Greater City of Sydney in the Sate of New South Wales, Australia.

Hope this helps.

But any way that not the reason I am on the Forum mates, it is to wish everyone everywhere a Happy and prosperous new year. Excpet for New Zealand, Australia seems to get it first and we hope that all who get it at any time get all the good luck we wish ourselves


Regrds

Ian and Doreen

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Hello Captain,Troy here.
I thought I'd just repair any international damage that has been done.It's funny how patriotic English people can be when faced with an international audience.I apologise for any offence.However,I am always fascinated by our conversations of a historical nature.Feel free to contact me off forum.My e-mail address is in my profile.I am interested in your part of the world(as are my children)
We've never been there !
Anyway.From Troy,Andrea,Elliot,Oscar,Emily,Sophie and Stitch the cat,we wish everyone in the World and on the forum a very happy 2005.[:D]
Troy

Troy,
No offense taken, I was...however, ready with a whole host of come backs. I chose not to go that route and damage Anglo-American relations well established on this forum. You will need a month to fully explore all the facets of America and still not get a clear picture.

Texas alone would require a week to see the various regions, the rest of the nation is truely diverse. Then you would need a month to view Canada. I would like to spend a year in the UK. In fact, the British Isles are about the only European Nation I would feel safe visiting (asside from the normal crime).

[aljay]

That should have read TUNDRA, not dundra .

WA

[aljay]

Happy New Year Capt.

Did Sir A.C.D. ever mention the other half of the flag,? US and GB, nice but I would rather have my Individuality,and the Great White North. Lots of fresh water, air, and room to run the dundra....Maple Leaf forever...

[Anonymous]

Hello Captain,Troy here.
I thought I'd just repair any international damage that has been done.It's funny how patriotic English people can be when faced with an international audience.I apologise for any offence.However,I am always fascinated by our conversations of a historical nature.Feel free to contact me off forum.My e-mail address is in my profile.I am interested in your part of the world(as are my children)
We've never been there !
Anyway.From Troy,Andrea,Elliot,Oscar,Emily,Sophie and Stitch the cat,we wish everyone in the World and on the forum a very happy 2005.[:D]
Troy

[Anonymous]

Y'all must be pretty close to 2005!!! Happy New Year!!! I think I like "Keep Buggering On!" It has a nice sound to it.

Oh, my Pax Britannica! I like the Red Uniforms, pitty you couldn't keep that going longer...just had to give in to Khaki eh? It is a shame that No one clammers for British/American Reunification. In fact I think that this is the first mention ever made of it in so many words.


I am reminded of something I once read in Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's writings. Its when Holmes says somehing like this...I've written it down:

"It is always a joy to meet an American, Mr. Moulton, for I am one of those who believe that the folly of a monarch and the blundering of a minister in far-gone years will not prevent our children from being some day citizens of the same world-wide country under a flag which shall be a quartering of the Union Jack with the Stars and Stripes."

[Anonymous]

Joe
Por Favor my Spanish is pure Vacyion. We are at this moment drinking wine beer and a touch of Cuban Ron.
"Keep Buggering On" is a very famous expression atributited to Winston Churchill.
We English are very much a seperate species from the rest of the world and and can take more abuse than you can imagine. throw it at us! We can take it!
Just remember one thing! Whose was the Greatest Empire?
Want some lessons?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Capt
Hello my name is David, I live next dooor to Troy and have to put up with his trams and trains and Kids and stuff and the fact that he knows Nada about Rugby. May I first pull you up on the word "Bugger"? Itis not a "fowl" word but a "foul" word! But I'm Bugggered if I can think why!
You poor Colonists have forgotten the natural order of things. We have a Country with an immenese history, shires, counties, villages,hamlets,sokes etc are perfetctly normal to us, we understand, we can explain but do you have the patience to listen?
I Love TUSA full of the most generous people in the world, friendly and generous but only inTUSA, as tourists, they are the worlds worst, except for Brits Abroad.
Just as an aside can I mention that my local pub is older than your Country?
We do share a common history except in the taste of our beer, Sam Adams almost got it right, but Pete, with his Wicked Ale, was very close. Real Ale is what defines us as "civilised peop[le". Yo so bebede Cervaze (Vino)? Beuenes Nuevo Annos.
David Nolan, Next door to Troy
Happy New Year

Thank you for your reply, it is nice to meet you (at least in the electronic sense). Forgive my mis-stroke of the keyboard. I must admit that I normally take great care in writing these messages, I normally open them in a MSWord file first. This time I did it "off the cuff" with a baby on my knee.

To make it make for correctness I guess I could say that I meant to say that it is a word "for the birds."[:p]

I would be glad to hear about the political breakdown of the British countryside. As an histrorian I would be at a loss if I knew nothing about it. I depend on these forums for international ideas being that I am sheltered in the confines of South Texas.

Yo soy uno que le gusta el ron, no tanto la cerveza pero tengo un lugar especial en mi corazon para vino.

I really enjoy speaking with the Brits, Aussies, Great White Northerners and Kiwis that I would otherwise probably never meet outside of this forum.

Keep putting up with Troy's trams et al and Troy...KBO, Keep Buggering On? [:D] I'm not too sure what that means but I say it in my best regard. Later...eh. (with regards to Brian, the Great White Northerner!)[:D]

[Anonymous]

Capt
Hello my name is David, I live next dooor to Troy and have to put up with his trams and trains and Kids and stuff and the fact that he knows Nada about Rugby. May I first pull you up on the word "Bugger"? Itis not a "fowl" word but a "foul" word! But I'm Bugggered if I can think why!
You poor Colonists have forgotten the natural order of things. We have a Country with an immenese history, shires, counties, villages,hamlets,sokes etc are perfetctly normal to us, we understand, we can explain but do you have the patience to listen?
I Love TUSA full of the most generous people in the world, friendly and generous but only inTUSA, as tourists, they are the worlds worst, except for Brits Abroad.
Just as an aside can I mention that my local pub is older than your Country?
We do share a common history except in the taste of our beer, Sam Adams almost got it right, but Pete, with his Wicked Ale, was very close. Real Ale is what defines us as "civilised peop[le". Yo so bebede Cervaze (Vino)? Beuenes Nuevo Annos.
David Nolan, Next door to Troy
Happy New Year

[Anonymous]

I am curious, how are the British Isles divided politically? For example, here in South Texas (as with most of the nation) we live in Municipalities, which are in Counties (Parishes if you live in Louisiana) which are in States which are part of the Greater United States of America. Thus, I live in Premont County of Jim Wells State of Texas, United States of America. Counties are divided into preincts for voting and the whole county is run by a County Judge (eleected administrator rather than magistrate) and a group of County Commisioners. The State of Texas is more or less a microversion of the US Federal Government, a Providence of the United States with a Governor, legislature and Court System.

I have never looked into the British Isles in this manner, but I can assume by all the "shires" et al that there is some division? Shed some light on it for me and fill the gaps of my ignorance?

I asked about the other matter becuase there is a distinct north south rivalry in the US (going back beyond the Civil War all the way to when the 13 colonies were divided into New England, Middle and Southern Colonies.) Fortunately it is not only limited to the type of humor Tangerine-jack highlighted in his post. We have had time in our history that were both bloody and sad along racial and reginonal lines. I am gratified that now we are even able to make joke about it.

Now, why is "Bugger" a fowl word?

[Anonymous]

This could be a bit dodgy to explain.They might all come down and get me!!.When Kimbrit comes back he'll explain.He's closer to them and will be able to do it tongue in cheek.Let's just say that there is a little bit of north-south divide in the UK.[:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Classic [:D]

I have a question about England. In Monty Python's The Meaning of Life, the second sketch "The miracle of Birth in the Third World," what exactally is meant by showing Yorkshire? In what context is Yorkshire viewed in the British lexicon?

[Anonymous]

Classic [:D]