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For those who desire one to "spark it up" with controversy!!!

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Posted by espeefoamer on Sunday, January 9, 2005 3:50 PM
I like American equipment the best, because that is what I am used to.I also like some foreign trains.I have never been overseas or acually seen their trains.I think British steam is too plain to be of much intrest,but I like some of thier diesels,especially the old Deltics. I think French steam is flat out ugly.German steam engines look the most American,except for the red wheels.Austrailian equipment is good looking, because they use 8 wheeled freight cars,like in the US but it looks different enough to be interesting.
Ride Amtrak. Cats Rule, Dogs Drool.
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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, January 9, 2005 11:49 AM
I have great pleasure in running my little LGB Stainz loco with euro rolling stock on my layout as my Canadian National rivit counter friend cringes in disgust.[}:)]
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Posted by grandpopswalt on Sunday, January 9, 2005 2:02 AM
Hey Cappy,

Happy New Year. Ah yes, globalization. Someone wrote earlier in this thread that he'd prefer to see many financially comfortable folks than just a few super wealthy ones. I think that this is exactly the point of the globalization debate. As transnational companies move more and more of their operations to less expensive places, what happens to the workers who are displaced and cannot find jobs of equal status in the “industrialized” or “wealthy” nations, such as the US, UK, etc. A very real result is that wealth then migrates upward into fewer and fewer hands.

It doesn’t make much difference to me if a LS loco made in China or some other low cost country can be sold here for 50% less than one made in US, UK, or Germany if my new job pays me only 25% of what I used to make. So it seems to me that as our ability to buy products diminishes, our countries, as markets, become much less important to the transnational companies compared to the emerging Far East markets. And our workforce isn’t nearly as important as it once was now that most of what we used to do can be done elsewhere for half the cost.

So it seems to me that the only way we can help ourselves is to start seriously to consider trading only with local companies. Henry Ford said almost a hundred years ago that business needs to pay its workers a decent wage in order to enable them to be able to buy the goods that are produced in the factories. Apparently that model no longer works. I know most of those economic ideas don’t apply any longer but we, as individuals need to think seriously about how we’re going to protect ourselves.

Walt
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, January 8, 2005 11:54 PM
Maybe this old thing has some life in it. Those of you who also do the MLS thing may recall the growth of the "Dumb Thread!" Our posts look mal-nursished next to that monster, and it has no purpose nor really subject.

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 29, 2004 7:49 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

Globalization, like the invention of fire, neither hurts nor hinders our hobby, it simply changes the environment in which we live. As our ancestors did, we must adapt to this new environment or go extinct.

With that said, I must depart this particular debate as I will be gone for a short time on a mission and will loose the thread by the time I return. I enjoyed this greatly! Cpt Carrales-Thanks! I learned a great deal to include:

1. My friends in the UK have a fantastic sense of humor and should be justly proud of thier rich and diverse railroading history.

2. Australian railroading is impressive and deserves more study and respect from the rest of the world.

3. <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=thomas%20the%20tank%20engine" onmouseover="window.status='Thomas the Tank engine'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">Thomas the Tank engine</a> is an excellent tool for interesting the children in railroads.

4. Lucas Electric makes former Soviet countries look competant and innovative.

5. Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordian: all you leave behind is a bunch of noisy baggage.

Thanks to you all!!![:D][:D][(-D][(-D][oX)]


Our debate on this thread has been, and I say this with pride, the singular best forum topic I have participated in. Thank you all.
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Friday, October 29, 2004 12:56 PM
Globalization, like the invention of fire, neither hurts nor hinders our hobby, it simply changes the environment in which we live. As our ancestors did, we must adapt to this new environment or go extinct.

With that said, I must depart this particular debate as I will be gone for a short time on a mission and will loose the thread by the time I return. I enjoyed this greatly! Cpt Carrales-Thanks! I learned a great deal to include:

1. My friends in the UK have a fantastic sense of humor and should be justly proud of thier rich and diverse railroading history.

2. Australian railroading is impressive and deserves more study and respect from the rest of the world.

3. Thomas the Tank engine is an excellent tool for interesting the children in railroads.

4. Lucas Electric makes former Soviet countries look competant and innovative.

5. Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordian: all you leave behind is a bunch of noisy baggage.

Thanks to you all!!![:D][:D][(-D][(-D][oX)]

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, October 29, 2004 12:28 PM
So, in the end, is globalization a boon or hinderance to our hobby? I mean, it might allow the free trade that will allow us to by locos et al at a reduced cost, but it may also serve to limit the products made.

On that note, wht do you think of the variety of stuff currently offered?
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:26 PM
I agree, I can go into a mom and pop and get what I want, with a helpful and knowledgable employee assisting me. I use them wherever possible. I've seen small towns in VA (Franklin, Blackstone, etc) actually prosper the small buisness community with the coming of Wal-mart. In some areas there are no real jobs, Wal-mart comes in and hires the entire town, and by defacto encourages other buisnesses to grow such as car washes and restaurants that cater to the influx of people shopping in the town. Now the townfolk have jobs and can afford to buy the goods from ol' Billy-Bob's general store (and get a piece of friendly conversation in the mix). Wal-mart does not sell musical instruments, G scale trains and accesories, high performance motorcycle parts, and many other hobby related items. I also hunt, and Wal-mart is OK for a quick buy of some ammo on your way out at odd hours, but I wouldn't bet my life on the rest of that Chinese junk they pass off to woodsmen as camping and hunting accesories. Some of that stuff will get you dead if you ever had to use it for real. Bottome line is we need to be smarter as consumers, and willing to pay more for what is worth more. LGB makes great stuff, don't be afraid to pay LGB for thier superior products.[oX)]

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 28, 2004 12:19 PM
The problem I have with globalization is this,
I like different cultures,people,shops,ideas and ideals.It's getting to the point in England where everytime I go shopping I find the same large stores,selling the same mundane,overpriced merchandise.It puts the smaller,private (interesting ) shops out of business.It's all very well saying'support your local shop'but there are only so many things you can buy.Over here the High Street shops are bought by the main companies.The smaller shops co-exist with these.Then the main companies set up out of town superstores (selling the same stuff,but with easy parking).The main companies can sustain the loss of the High Street decline in trade but the smaller businesses cannot.
In Tenterden where I live,the High Street (once a wonderful display of local produce and design ) has turned into a tourist antique shop nightmare.
And another thing.If everything is the same in the World, would it be a good idea to move all the the tourist attractions to one place,have a quick look,and then nip down to MacDonalds for lunch.
Sorry I forgot,Disney has already done it [censored]
Plus I think that is better to have many comfortably wealthy people than a few superich.
Troy
Troy
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 28, 2004 11:58 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

Anyway, Globalization is a fact that cannot be ignored. It is here, it is not going away, so we must learn to live and work within that sphere. I support local manufacutures as much as possible, but sometimes they can't compete with the quality and price of the imports, quality being my deciding factor more than price. Wal-Mart is perhaps the evil being in all this as they dictate to the suppliers what the retail price of a product will be, then leave it up to the supplier to meet that price and still show some kind of profit, or else not do buisiness with Wal-Mart. The supliers then have no choice but to go to Mexico or China in order to cut costs. We are as guilty for buying the cheap products as "they" are for selling them.[oX)]

TJ,
Wal Mart hurt the mom and pop business and now it is coming back to hurt them with law suits even though to them might be small billion dollar and million dollar suits none the less I still miss the mom and pop shops I use to go in.
There still are some out there and I support mine in the surounding towns.

William
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:57 AM
Hey all! I'll keep my French bashing to a minimum as this is not the place for it, but I will say that France is the only country to lose two wars to Italy, and they only won one war in the last 2000 years (French revolution).
So how many Exocets=sunk Royal Navy ships? High hit odds no doubt and shows that the French are well involved in globalization.

Anyway, Globalization is a fact that cannot be ignored. It is here, it is not going away, so we must learn to live and work within that sphere. I support local manufacutures as much as possible, but sometimes they can't compete with the quality and price of the imports, quality being my deciding factor more than price. Wal-Mart is perhaps the evil being in all this as they dictate to the suppliers what the retail price of a product will be, then leave it up to the supplier to meet that price and still show some kind of profit, or else not do buisiness with Wal-Mart. The supliers then have no choice but to go to Mexico or China in order to cut costs. We are as guilty for buying the cheap products as "they" are for selling them.[oX)]

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 28, 2004 6:06 AM
Hi captain carrales
Your request could take a while to process.
i will have to go through a pile of English model publications that goes back to 1973 with the odd 50's and 60's ones
there is definatly articals on a Yanky pullman car for the LMS the southerns shunting loco and a circus train from the US one of your famous circuses.
And I dont mean the one you have to face at work every day[:D]
In the Great Western album by R.C.Riley Published by Ian Allen around 1972 in the GWR at war section pags are not numbered unfortunatly there is a picture of an English freight train being hauled by double header
USATC 2-8-0's near Wooten Bassett (spelling its an old book)in June 1943
this picture shows how small English 4WH goods wagons of the time realy where you can just about make out the UK draw gear on the front I dont know how well the picture will copy.
Bachmann did make Lynn in "G" but it would not get round R1 and I dont think it had the chopper coupling. it should have and it should have been 32mm gauge any way.
The Keighly and Worth valley railway.( don't rely on my spelling) have a web site they have one of the SR 0-6-0 or was it 0-4-0 Yanky tank engine type switchers.
regards John
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Posted by Gary Crawley on Thursday, October 28, 2004 5:20 AM
Kim
Whats the difference between a piece of toast and a French-man.
You can make soldiers out of a piece of toast.
Gary
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, October 28, 2004 2:06 AM
T Jack,
If the loser gets to keep france let's make sure the loser is france, which is something they're used to (football apart). I've never forgiven them for supplying the Argies with exocet missiles AFTER that little dust up in the south atlantic started. They said it was something to do with business and contracts, it just kept the killing going. I now make it my business NOT to buy anything french when I'm spending my money. Sorry to keep going on but it's a touchy subject with me.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:07 PM
Yes this is all true, I got a bit confused when we went from long bows to motorcycles (I didn't know they still made Trumps).

I am also concerned about globalisation and its affect on things, some things i am as scared as hell about. Small thing power tools where is this all going to end, you can't ignore them very cheap and pretty good. Airlines what was regarded as a move toward
monopoly has now become a fight to survive (Qantas - Air New Zealand merger).

Again we were concerned about monopoly of the media but really these days there are no nationla boundaries, I didn't believe it when I heard Ruper Murdoch espous same about a decade ago but its true, even here in far away Australia, we get the same programmes as New Zealand, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Singapore thats international enough.

Service industries are just that, providing a service to people not a product and if we are not producing product where are we. Here in Queensland we have lead the world in Sugar Cane production for a century, foolishly we sold the technology to Brazil; now that industry is nearly dead, can't compete on quality and price and we did it to ourselves el Nino hurts too.

However there are other jobs in service industruies besides burgers etc. what about being skipper of your own 40 ' Catamaran in the Whitsundays, thats what i was going to do but my knees gave out. That is agood occupation in a service industry Tourism, and I have the experience, qualifications and money to do it.


Regards Ian
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Cappy,

In the long run globalization is probably inevitable. All segments of the global economy should eventually find what they are best suited to do. But my concern as an american, and perhaps our european friends should also be concerned, is the short term impact on our workers as transnational businesses rush forward to globalize and maximize profits. There is already turmoil in the workplace as more and more workers are displaced as their jobs are sent elsewhere. It will take at least a generation for workers to aquire the skills necessary to do the jobs of the "future". In the meantime some folks have to work two jobs and still don't make as much as they used to.

My point is that as the average American, English, Austrailian, etc worker earns less and less we as nations become less and less of a contender in the <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=world%20market" onmouseover="window.status='world market'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">world market</a>.

Does anyone have a short term solution?

Walt


Globalization may well be the wave of the future, but I feel we need to have safe guards in the national economies to prevent collapse! The US has to have a "lock gear" that could prevent a worldwide depression form attacking its economy, same for UK, OZ, Deutchland and the Orient. Otherwise you will have a "house of cards" senerio that will send the world into an economic situation that could cause a new "Dark age."

Then how would we get our trains? And that is the Economist that is Capt Carrales.
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Posted by grandpopswalt on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:05 PM
Cappy,

In the long run globalization is probably inevitable. All segments of the global economy should eventually find what they are best suited to do. But my concern as an american, and perhaps our european friends should also be concerned, is the short term impact on our workers as transnational businesses rush forward to globalize and maximize profits. There is already turmoil in the workplace as more and more workers are displaced as their jobs are sent elsewhere. It will take at least a generation for workers to aquire the skills necessary to do the jobs of the "future". In the meantime some folks have to work two jobs and still don't make as much as they used to.

My point is that as the average American, English, Austrailian, etc worker earns less and less we as nations become less and less of a contender in the world market.

Does anyone have a short term solution?

Walt
"You get too soon old and too late smart" - Amish origin
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 5:19 PM
All excellent points! A service economy is capable to surviving because the "Services" are traded as commodities. One buys stock in an airline or railroad (oddly railroading is a service economy), that is priced and traded like a tengible product.

The problem occurs when the economy isc damaged or stagnant. The business cycle (that visious cycle we capitalists live by- Ah, Adam Smith) dictates that goods are produced in a factory which employs workers. These workers are paid and buy things from the marketplace. The marketplace obtains products from the factory (workplace) which pays the worker. Thus the cycle repeats. This goes so for the service economy, but without products you can grab.

Those that fight for the "one world" marketplace cheer the fact that the US and its western allies are service economies. It means that they will procude products the the Service Economies can no longer manufacture. When the Western Markets collapse, they provide the bailout. From there the seeds of the ONE WORLD SOCIOPOLITICAL Sphere are sown.

This is where many opinions vary.

Now lets aplly this to railroads (model). When goods are produced in the FAR EAST under controlled markets (I.E. Bachmann parts) the prices are dictaded from Peking. The influx or removal of these products from the markets make the price of Large Scale equipment fluxuate. We are at the mercy of these forces. Solution: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL MANUFACTURES!

Much as been said in the negative about the Domestic Large Scale variety of Great Britain, you will (or should) purchase from them to make them grow and meet the demands of your desires! Same for US companies!

By the way, we have now past the century mark and have six pages of posts on this thread!

Capt Carrales
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Posted by grandpopswalt on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 4:49 PM
Jack and Ben,

My point exactly! If we, meaning much of the western world, no longer produce anything that can be traded, like cars, steel, lumber, and other "things" then how do we earn money with which to buy from those folks who do produce those "things". So it would appear that we're now passing what's left of our money around between ourselves as we "service" each other (you make whatever you want out of the last part of the sentence).

Cappy ....... If I'm not mistaken most if not all of Bachmann's stuff is made in China as is almost evrything else.

Walt
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Posted by tangerine-jack on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 1:14 PM
Yes, a service economy is just that, waiters and burger flippers. Last I looked, everything was made in China.......including poor Thomas and friends!
If you look close enough, your pint bottle was probably made in Taiwan or Mexico, and the milk probably came from the Ukraine. Funny, the only thing I know of made entirely in the US is the Kawasaki Vulcan motorcycle, odly enough a Jap company. So where does the money come from to go to McDonalds anyway, Hmmmm..................................[oX)]

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 12:32 PM
Hang on a minute.If you're not making anything and we're not making anything,where does it all come from.The last thing I saw with "made in England" on it was a pint of milk !!
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:45 AM
I think it's when you work as a nurse, work at Mac. Donalds, as a weighter in a restaurant a ticket taker in a park, a police officer, work at a old folks nursing home , at gas stations , at banks, lumber yard s, etc. Ben[2c]
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Posted by grandpopswalt on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 11:10 AM
My undying gratitude to anyone who can explain what the hell a "service" economy is..

Walt
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:54 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

So, I take a long weekend and there are 3 more pages to this topic!! Well, on that note, hey kimbrit, yes it is hard to believe America invented absolutely everything, but it's true! I ride and restore Triumph motorcycles and yes, weeds are not a problem under a parked bike, along with your boots not rusting from the oil splatters. Harleys may be assembled in the US, but the wheels, wiring, fuel and ignition systems are all Jap.
To kimbrit and troybetts and all the other UK readers, the next time I'm in the UK, drinks at Gillespie's are on me! I'll even by dinner at the Peppermill!
To our Aussie readers, thanks for your support in the war on terror, you guys are the absolute best! It's too bad we can't understand a thing you say.
The next time we pull Europe out of the fire, the loser gets to keep France!

Back into the fray!!!!!!!![oX)]


It is no secret that the Economy of the United States has made a shift from a goods economy (manufacturing) to one of a service economy. I prefer Bachmann Trains, not so much that they are American Made, but rather becuase they are within my price range.


A bit on manufacturing...

Much of the LGB stuff is wunderbar, but it is higly expensive. My hat goes (and I sometimes think i am the only man in the western hemisphere who still wears a fedora hat) off the Germans for their excellent (albiet expensive) items.

Aristo is pretty good also, I am in awe over their variety and I plan to use thier track, with its hex-head screws, for my main lines (LGB for sidings).

USA TRAINS has an excellent "work train series," but I cannot find a retailer or regular wholesaler that sells any of it. Must one order it directly from them?
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:45 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Hi Joe,
For the record mate, that was the Normans. We usually beat the c**p out of the French and then pull them out of it when the Germans go on a european tour. Another little tit-bit, the good old V sign, of the insulting sort, came about around the time of Agincourt when the French used to cut the first and middle fingers off when they captured an English long- bow man. Before the battle the longbow men gave the French the V sign to show they had their fingers. The rest, as they say, is......................
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Assimilating invaders, hmmmm, are we the Borg??[;)]

Kim,

Yes, ah... the Normans. They didn't stay French for long. Much of the vocabulary we use today is of Norman extraction. English has the dubious honor of being a Germanic language with Romance (i.e. the Romans) vocabulary.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 9:42 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Capt Carrales
When your lads went home at the end of WWII a lot of their trains got left behind and if some is modeling the right period should have some wagons
and coaches that are obviously of US orrigins even though they have UK Buffers and drawgear on them the same goes for europe
In this modern day and age it is not so easy to pick what is of US orrigin a case in point is the Yeoman quarry company diesles I thought the English designer should be shot for that one only to discover that thier obviouse U.K modern design was in fact a product of General Motors no points for guessing where they are based[:D]
It is not so easy in all cases with the modern stuff to sat this is from the UK or this is from the US ect as it is Now primaraly designed for where and what it is to be used for rather than a definative nationaly defined design like they used to be so without looking at the builders plates it can be a case of your guess is as good as mine as to who built it
regards John


John,

Do you have any photos of any of these trains of "US origins with UK Buffers" and et al? Maybe some museum or Railroad page if you have none yourself. I would kind of like to see that.

Capt Carrales
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 8:08 AM
Hi Gary
The Indian Pacific coaches where built or was it designed by the Germans as was the old prospector set.
the SAR stuff is strongly influenced by the US WAGR by the Poms NSWGR
canot make up its mind and QR also seems to have a strong UK influence
now the US owns 1/2 of most of it.
regards John
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Posted by Gary Crawley on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:51 AM
Capt
I have no idea how much rolling stock made it to Pomy land but lots came down under.
Beside locos most passenger stock was ex US design. Even today our long distant trains have US origins.
We still run passenger trains over 1 KM long (Indian Pacific and the Ghan)
The type of trains you Guy's would of had in the 50's and 60's.
There is still a lot of Budd stainless heavy cars in service.
I's a real tourist growth industry.
There still is a lot of narrow gauge stuff about as well.
One thing that the Poms did was to steal back from Tassie one of the last narrow gauge Garrets left in the world, (put back in service) that was used on the logging lines.

One thing you Yanks did when you had your little tiff with the Poms (over tea) was to make them send their crims to Oz, thanks, many were great engineers, and they created a great infastructure (Roads, Bridges & Buildings etc)
I hate to take sides but the Pomy locos could not handle our harsh conditions (long dry runs) so we prefered the US stock although we built many large Garrets for freight service.
Although after saying that our most famous loco the3800 class was of UK origin.

Gary

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Posted by tangerine-jack on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 6:41 AM
So, I take a long weekend and there are 3 more pages to this topic!! Well, on that note, hey kimbrit, yes it is hard to believe America invented absolutely everything, but it's true! I ride and restore Triumph motorcycles and yes, weeds are not a problem under a parked bike, along with your boots not rusting from the oil splatters. Harleys may be assembled in the US, but the wheels, wiring, fuel and ignition systems are all Jap.
To kimbrit and troybetts and all the other UK readers, the next time I'm in the UK, drinks at Gillespie's are on me! I'll even by dinner at the Peppermill!
To our Aussie readers, thanks for your support in the war on terror, you guys are the absolute best! It's too bad we can't understand a thing you say.
The next time we pull Europe out of the fire, the loser gets to keep France!

Back into the fray!!!!!!!![oX)]

The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, October 27, 2004 2:07 AM
Hi Joe,
For the record mate, that was the Normans. We usually beat the c**p out of the French and then pull them out of it when the Germans go on a european tour. Another little tit-bit, the good old V sign, of the insulting sort, came about around the time of Agincourt when the French used to cut the first and middle fingers off when they captured an English long- bow man. Before the battle the longbow men gave the French the V sign to show they had their fingers. The rest, as they say, is......................
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Assimilating invaders, hmmmm, are we the Borg??[;)]

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