For those who desire one to "spark it up" with controversy!!!

[FJ and G]

Ben,

Bet BB the beagle could take that rabbit out. Would make a pretty good feast for her!

[Anonymous]

Dave
that RABBIT would make a big pot of stew, or if it's in your GARDEN RR YOU COULD have a big train wreck, if you hit him with an engine crossing your tracks . BEN[:D]

[FJ and G]

GP-9,
Actually, the FJ&G had just layed new track, acquired an RS-3 and then got bought by a shortline (The Oswego something or other?), which probably bought the line for the scrap metal, b/c they quickly abandoned the line.

There's a network of friends of the FJ&G which continually speculate about it coming back, but ain't gonna happen. Such a shame.

All,

Happy Easter...

[DannyS]

Great to read so many views expressed, for a topic to run to nine pages must be great encouragement to the Captain who started it rolling!
Regards to all and Happy Easter, Danny Sheehan in Oz.

[GP-9_Man11786]

Done to death by the Adairondack Northway and the NYS Thruway I presume.

[FJ and G]

50 miles west by nor'west

(in its heyaday, the FJ&G went about as far as Albany along the Mohawk River)

[GP-9_Man11786]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Fonda, Johnstown & Gloversville Railroad near my hometown of Gloversville, NY. Abandoned in 1983, unfortunately. Nice trail there now though.

They were the first railroad in the U.S. to completely dieselize. Did so in 1945, replacing their fleet of 4-4-0s!

How far was it from Albany?

[FJ and G]

Fonda, Johnstown & Gloversville Railroad near my hometown of Gloversville, NY. Abandoned in 1983, unfortunately. Nice trail there now though.

They were the first railroad in the U.S. to completely dieselize. Did so in 1945, replacing their fleet of 4-4-0s!

[Anonymous]

Hey what does F J & G stand for?
Ed

[FJ and G]

I'm always amazed at how slow this forum seems to go with postings compared to LargeScale Forum. But when you hit the right topic like the one on this post, it moves with lightning speed and members come out of the woodwork, some even wearing flak jackets. [:D]

[Anonymous]

TJ Remind me to keep my mouth shut somewhere in there you lost me
he he he............can't argue with lodgic...................I think?????????
Ed

[tangerine-jack]

Rail Fan, as usual your logic is wrong. If I am always right and everyone else is always wrong, then logicaly if you are wrong about me being smart then that would mean that I was not, however, the arguement wasn't about being smart, it was about being right or wrong and since I disagree with you being wrong, then you must in fact be right if I say it is so. If I change my mind and started doing something a different way, even if it was a way that was done before, my way would then be the new right way, and all other ways are wrong. This is a fundamental truth, if someone always lies, then if they tell the truth doesn't that become a lie to themselves?

Bottom line is that I am still right about all of it. See?[swg]

[Anonymous]

double post sorry

[Anonymous]

TJ I just told someone I thought you were smart !!! could I be wrong?

Couldn't let it pass Kidding
Ed

[Capt Bob Johnson]

TJ,
Helmet??? On somebody as thickheaded as you??? Or is it just another way to get your money's worth out of that Spike Topped Motorcycle Helmet you got???

[tangerine-jack]

Everybody is wrong about everything, I'm right about all of it. Why can't you guys get that through your heads????


There, that ought to do it!

Flak vest - check
helmet - check
ammo- check
sand bags- check

Lets go........................................

[Anonymous]

Ok, I'd not heard about those shorter consists - my other problem is one of curves. To get a decent size layout in my garden will mean that the curves would look daft with larger US motive power. I suspect with me it's more a case of already having the US outline HO and wanting something different in G. That said, those USA Trains Geeps look rather good - especialy in C&NW livery with the "torpedo tube" air reservoirs!

[Anonymous]

Ve Cermans have vays of making you like our trains. Don't make us hurt you.

[Anonymous]

Ve Cermans have vays of making you like our trains. Don't make us hurt you.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Matt,

Short consists are really prototypical!

Many a night and early morning I rode a milk train from 30th Street in Philly down to Wilmington; that continued on down through DElaware to Harrington! Usually its consist was 2 or 3 boxes, a flat or two, possibly a tank car, and the tail end brought up by a combine and a single coach!

PRSL did the Cape May run from Philly to Cape May with 2 cars most of the year, only adding cars on summer weekends! Atlantic City trains were often only 2 or 3 cars in length. In winter they often ran the RDCs of both services together splitting off the AC cars at Winslow Junction, an Ocean City car at Tuckahoe, a Wildwood car at Wildwood Junction, and the last car going on to Cape May!

I have also seen short passenger trains on the D&H and E-L trackage in upstate Penna.

[Anonymous]

My my, we all have something to say on this subject. As another Brit I have to begin by saying that the Welsh/British locos and carriages, trucks and so on will always be romantic and nostalgic for me, even though I'm not really old enough to remember them.

Thomas , yes of course part of my childhood. Before video the books and 78' records with Jonny Morris as the narrator were what gave steam trains real character. Most of the locos, I believe, closely reflect real welsh locos and well known main line locos.

Having said that, the US critters of 0-4-0 size have a romance all of their own. I can imagine them trundling along with a load of whatever needs to go to wherever it needs to go. Some of the US 7/8ths websites have truely inspiring scratch-built critters that send me off to find out whether any of them had ever been brought to Japan.

Here the history of rail began with the British stuff, then other European stock and then the US steam locos, not to mention trams. With that kind of history it is possible to have locos and rolling stock from the US and Europe running on the same line. No US stuff on the Daruma Line yet, but it is early days.

Nice thread though, well worth an extended read.

Matthew [bow]

[FJ and G]

Spent 6 years in Okinawa back in the 1970s. When you go to Mabuni (suicide cliffs), there are dozens of Japanese war memorials but no U.S.

BTW, the island did have a railway but after the war it was abandoned. They might have one now, as the island is sinking from the weight of overpopulation.

Walt writes

"Amazing, isn't it? How often two people can go to the same place and come away with two entirely different opinions of what they saw and experienced."

Good observation, Walt. So true.

------------------

I think that Garden Railways (despite differeing political and other views), is the one hobby that has brought so many of us from varying backgrounds together.

[grandpopswalt]

Amazing, isn't it? How often two people can go to the same place and come away with two entirely different opinions of what they saw and experienced.

Walt

[TonyWalsham]

A couple of years ago my sister visited the well maintained, by the nearby French village, grave of my Uncle who died there serving in the RAF during WW2. I believe that this "we will never forget" attitude by most French men and women is widespread and extends right back to WW1 graves which are as equally well maintained.

[tangerine-jack]

Perhaps the other allies should design, construct and PAY for their war memorials as the Americans have. Then they would have one commemorating their sacrifices to the war

[Anonymous]

I never met a train I didn't like, and I don't care who made it or where it was made and operated. Most importantly, I don't care a bit what someone else prefers because I don't engage in my hobby to please anyone else. I do prefer steam power over diesels, but that's primarily because I remember the days when steam was still around and in revenue use, and feel that steam locomotives simply have more "character" than diesels.

[grandpopswalt]

Ian,

Revisionist history is nothing new. Many years ago I visited a French military museum in the mountains near Toulon. One of the features was a film presentation of the fighting around Toulon and the liberation of Paris. There was virtually no mention of the efforts of the allied forces involved and absolutely nothing at all about the Americans. If I didn’t know better, I’d have left there thinking the French had driven the Germans out single-handedly.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Getting back to invading Normandie (note the change in spelling (French)); I have now visited most of the DDay landing beaches and although thousnds of Aussie soldiers died there , not a mention of us except one very small mention something about the RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force). To me the most interesting was not one of the beaches at all; it was the Pegasus Bridge. which was taken by Pommy commandos from Dorset right on schedule and was actually the pivot for the whole thing.

This was right at the northern end and they had to exert so much pressure that the Germanshad to move the forces north to stop them.

When they did this the Americans at "Omaha" i think really got into gear and the whole thing moved like a big axis and the day was won.

Rgds ian

[GP-9_Man11786]

Why not more Alaska Railroad equipment? Alaska may not be part of the lower 48 but it's still North America.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

I think that the European locomotives look a lot better than the US/Canadian ones. Having said that, I have more of an attachment to US diesel and steam locomotives since I grew up in the US and my roots are here. Having said that (repeating myself), I would not at all mind having a British live steam loco on my layout.

One thing surprising is, since we have so many Canadian locos, why don't we also have Mexican ones since they also are part of North America?

I see lots of them on the Texas Mexican...they are blue...all part of the KCS system. I went to Corpus Christi today, had I read thisI would have photoed you one.

[FJ and G]

I think that the European locomotives look a lot better than the US/Canadian ones. Having said that, I have more of an attachment to US diesel and steam locomotives since I grew up in the US and my roots are here. Having said that (repeating myself), I would not at all mind having a British live steam loco on my layout.

One thing surprising is, since we have so many Canadian locos, why don't we also have Mexican ones since they also are part of North America?

[GP-9_Man11786]

The nicest looking locomotive have come from the US. The SP Daylight, the GG1, The Alco PA, FL-9s (which New York State just retired this year) and more recently the EMD F-59Phi are a few examples. That said, Bitish steam engines are among some of the most handsome I've ever seen. And I do believe I have seen picture of EMD F and E units running in Australia and I know GE sent a bunch of C40-9Ws down under.

As for the price of large scale trains, I thought everybody knew LGB stood for Let's Go Broke. They are among the only large scale trains that still cost more than tank of Gas (at $2.74 a gallon).

[Train 284]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

Personally I have only European models in G - I have US equipment in HO but I feel you need a decent length train for it to look right, and with G scale prices there's no way I can afford that.

Thats not entirely true. Model Railroader did an article a couple issues back on daily passenger trains in the US that were only 3-5 cars long.

[Anonymous]

Personally, after a lot of reflection, I would have to say that the locomotives I prefer best (that is...that look the most aesthetically pleasing) are those of the type uses on any small yet still substantial rail line.

I must say that Moguls, Prairie, Consolidation and American wheel Steam configurations are my favorite set about 1900 to 1940#8217;s running through the sort of small American towns that I was raised in.

I don#8217;t find European trains to be offensive in anyway, but those are not in my connected tradition. Now, should I ever move to England or Germany#8230;I think I would be more likely to favor the local stuff.

I don#8217;t think there is any shame in having #8220;favorites,#8221; whilst loving it all.

[Anonymous]

Personally I have only European models in G - I have US equipment in HO but I feel you need a decent length train for it to look right, and with G scale prices there's no way I can afford that. Using Euro models means that I can get away with very short trains - the RhB's "Alpine Classic" is usually only two Pullman cars and a baggage van, which also suits the available space in the garden a lot more than a massive US consist. LGB's Euro range is more expensive than their US one but spread out over a few years the cost of a full AC rake isn't too bad. Major difference will be that mine will have a Bernina railcar as power rather than a Croc (mainly due to the railcar being cheaper).

[underworld]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Carrales

Recently my Daughter, Micaela, was given a book 'bout Thomas the Tankengine. While I was reading it to her, my brother, Anthony, came over into the room and made the following comment...

"How can you stand to look at those ugly trains?"

By this, of course, he meant...er...foreign trains. He was, as that I don't want to step on any of my friends' toes, suggesting that American trains (with four axles and that certain something that makes them "American") were superior to the railroads and equipment of Europe et al.

Capt Carrales

I have a few very old European trains with four axels. One is a 1906 Marklin gauge 1 Gepackwagen and the other is a 1917 Marklin French Post Wagon. I can't really say if I like European or American....or South American or Asian or African or Australian or New Zealand or what ever else better. It's kind of like, "Do you like tall women or short women???" ummmm.....YES! ;b [:p]

underworld

aka The Violet

[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[Train 284]

Personally, I prefer US locos anyday! No two locos look alike,in my opinion anyway, but euro locos all kind of follow that same line. I personally do like all locomotives, no matter where they are, but I guess being around American steam for my whole life has really gotten me attracted to it!

If anyone cares, I REALLY hate the shrill whistles of Euro locos! ugh! horrible![xx(][:O][banghead] Nothing like the lovely deep tones of US steamers.

Just my 2 cents, don't flame me to much! Everyone has there own opinions. I grew up with Thomas and I always wondered why those trains looked so different from what I had seen in the museum.

[:I]

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Carrales

This post as been dormant a LONG time...shall we "SPARK IT UP" once again!!!

Major Carrales

Sure, why not!

It was only yesterday that one of my German friends, who models NA, sent me a picture with one of those ugly modern BNSF diesels.
He was so disgusted with the looks that he took "Photo-Shop" and improved them. Let's say they got "lampooned"!!!
They still didn't look all that nice, but once something is designed ugly it is very hard to make it pretty. Other than starting from scratch! [;)][;)][}:)][}:)][:p][:p]

[Anonymous]

This post as been dormant a LONG time...shall we "SPARK IT UP" once again!!!

Major Carrales

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carpenter matt

Thanks, however other than the Steam loco's the others looks very North American.

Enjoyed them! Thanks!

Precisely!

Probably the reason Ian didn't get around to posting some of the proto pics.[:)][:D]

The steamers look generally very British.

[Anonymous]

Thanks, however other than the Steam loco's the others looks very North American.

Enjoyed them! Thanks!

[Anonymous]

controversy
na i just like american diesels no i love american diesels!

[RhB_HJ]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carpenter matt

Ian, Maybe you could take some railfan photos for those of us unfamilar with Aussie locos? Or point us to a website that may have pictures of such Locos?

Matt,

Have a look at these http://members.iinet.net/~rjtonkin/arp.html

Enjoy!

[Anonymous]

Ian, Maybe you could take some railfan photos for those of us unfamilar with Aussie locos? Or point us to a website that may have pictures of such Locos?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

In general I do not like american trains at all, too big, grosse and ugly biggest isnt always best.

However ihave come to appreciate several parts of american trains.

!) Moguls, I would love a mogul engine, with the spark arrestor on top of a big chimney.
2) American boxcars, big and colourful look great going around your layout.
3) I think American tankers look more substantial than European ones.

I do not understand why mopre hasn't been done wwith australian trains after all we are doing a lot of new stuff, not pulling thibngs down.

Most of the worlds really big trains are Australian ie 2 miles long pulled by 5 or 6 prime movers travelling 2500 miles in one hit.


Rgds ian

I too like Moguls, also Ten-Wheelers and Atlantics. The simple Prarie 2-6-2 is also a favorite of mine. Aussie trains have always struck me as a bit of a mix between American/European. You blokes need the technology of the American west and the innovation of European lines to address the grades and expanses of the Continent Dunnunder, the result is a perfect mix...at least in my opinion... that has grown into a unique set of rules.

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

In general I do not like american trains at all, too big, grosse and ugly biggest isnt always best.

However ihave come to appreciate several parts of american trains.

!) Moguls, I would love a mogul engine, with the spark arrestor on top of a big chimney.
2) American boxcars, big and colourful look great going around your layout.
3) I think American tankers look more substantial than European ones.

I do not understand why mopre hasn't been done wwith australian trains after all we are doing a lot of new stuff, not pulling thibngs down.

Most of the worlds really big trains are Australian ie 2 miles long pulled by 5 or 6 prime movers travelling 2500 miles in one hit.


Rgds ian

[Anonymous]

Any new takers on this topic? It was a good one back in the day!!!

[Anonymous]

Any new takers on this topic? It was a good one back in the day!!!

[grandpopswalt]

Kim,

While you're there you may want to try to find that fantastic garden railway in Dijon that was featured in GR in the February 2003 issue. The owner is a great modeler and a master photographer.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Gentlemen, I have to apologise to you all for everything I have said about those people at the other end of the tunnel, (shouting) WE ARE GOING TO BLOODY FRANCE FOR OUR HOLS!! I know i must be going soft in the head but the deciding factor on this is that I am so pi**ed off with airports, especially the Greek ones and the morons our holiday companies send out there as reps. So, we decided to take the car over in June and have a week driving around - I don't have to speak to them. We might go again in September when Iandor's there, if we enjoy it, and re-enact the D-Day landings. I must admit I've always had a soft spot for the narrow guage railways that where all over the place once upon a time so all may not be lost.
Bonjour,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Hi espeefoamer
Just one question which period are you looking at when you say English plain and boring Pre or Post Grouping or BR.
I won't tell you what to do with the Deltic I have a love to hate relationship with diesles exept the very early ones.
In Aus not that long ago there was a strong UK or US influence dependant on which state you where in now they seem to be trying to pick the best of both influences.
regards John

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Ian, Can't do that. Since I was born in 1940 the clothing I wore then wouldn't qualify as a uniform and were a trifle (about 350 pounds worth) smaller; and George has got my custom tailor "Omar the Tentmaker" pinned down in Iraq!

[grandpopswalt]

Ian I'm with you. The reinvasion of Normandy would make about as much sense as the recent invasion of Iraq.

Walt

[Anonymous]

What about we all get togther go to Normandy, rent some WW 2 uniforms and a few rowing boats. Then re enact the "D" Day landing at Sword beach and get our wives and families to throwm stones at us to simulate German machine gun fire.

Reason I specifies "Sword" as I think that is where the Canadians landed and we can exclude Brian from jpoining us


Huh What do youy think gentlemen, if Kim, Troy and I have enough to drink we just might do it!


Rgds Ian

[Capt Bob Johnson]

It is raised. Area devoted to railroad is about 45 feet x 85 feet. Started by having 3'wide concrete walk poured about a foot outside where I had planned my outside loop of trackage. Then placed 2008 dry laid landscape blocks 7 courses high (28 inches) using inside edge of walk as back line of retaining wall. Brought in 30 twelve wheeler loads of fill dirt to fill it, but left hole where eventual pond would be.

Laid outside loop in Aristo SS track with 20' Dia minimum curve for mainline. Trackage kinda done like real RR in that I mixed 3/8 crushed stone 2 parts with 1 part stone dust to lock it together, minimum 4 inches deep, tamped it down and leveled it out. Then set track on that with power brought to it about every 50 feet using low voltage lighting wire that was laid within the stone base under the track (so i don't dig it when planting), then ballasted with mix of 2/3 stone dust and 1/3 3/8" stone. Havent had any washouts or movement other than one place where fill dirt under stone base washed out before pond was installed.

Once perimiter trackage was laid and running, brought in another 9 loads of dirt and placed them on top with a gradall to make a mountain out of. ( Highest Mt. in State of Delaware) 1 week after this I had a heart fart and lost the 2004 construction season, didn't get ok from Dr. to do any digging until October, and just last week got permission to do heavy digging.

Only thing done in 2004 season was to have a contractor install fish pond (about 19,000 gal) which is about 22 feet wide, 42 feet long and 32 to 40 inches deep! We have a waterfall running, but it's location is temporary until I get exact location of trackage on mountain loop for a special effect I have in mind.

Don't this beat the heck out of talking politics????

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Bob Johnson

Yes, he was, I was just drawing the line on along the tracks to it's logical extention in the next century! Along with being a S--t stirrer I also try to see the thoughts behind the public pronouncements. You'd be amazed hat how many positions while touted as moral are simply expedient justification for financial or greed realities! Perhaps those who claim it to be a war over oil were right, but I don't think that was anywhere near the top reason. They just needed a war somewhere to pull the world economy out of trouble!

Capt Johnson,

I know you will never hear this man's radio station, albiet you might want to try the political commentary at his website...

http://www.ericvonwade.com

His message board...

http://www.ericvonwade.com/community/boards.asp

...is a great place to vent political views. He is a conservative talkshow host, but he lets any and everyone post their views there.

Capt Johnson, tell us a bit about your layout. You said, if memory serves, that it was in its initial stages, so is mine. Maybe we can share techniques!

Capt Carrales

[Capt Bob Johnson]

Yes, he was, I was just drawing the line on along the tracks to it's logical extention in the next century! Along with being a S--t stirrer I also try to see the thoughts behind the public pronouncements. You'd be amazed hat how many positions while touted as moral are simply expedient justification for financial or greed realities! Perhaps those who claim it to be a war over oil were right, but I don't think that was anywhere near the top reason. They just needed a war somewhere to pull the world economy out of trouble!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Capt Bob Johnson

kimbrit --- Ah so, the worm squirms! You don't suppose that the parlevous and Auchtung boys held out of Iraq because they were major suppliers to Saddam do you? I think that was more of a reason to them than anything that has been published to date, including the erroneous intel! Given the intel available at the time and not what has been discovered in hindsight, I think George & Tony made the right decision; however, I would have tried to keepa my hands off the whole middle east thingy from the word go ---- it's been going on for thousands of years in one form or another and we ain't gonna stop it! Can't stand the French I have met so far in my life and just tolerate the Krauts. Just love to hear them say "Dumkoff Amerikaner" under thier breath, and then ask them who lost WW II --- Likewise wondering what the France' accented German would sound like today if it weren't for the old country & the colonies!

Capt Johnson,

I think Kim was talking about the Falkland Islands Conflict. I must admit, I know little about the effect that had on the British People.

[4:-)] Capt Carrales

[Capt Bob Johnson]

kimbrit --- Ah so, the worm squirms! You don't suppose that the parlevous and Auchtung boys held out of Iraq because they were major suppliers to Saddam do you? I think that was more of a reason to them than anything that has been published to date, including the erroneous intel! Given the intel available at the time and not what has been discovered in hindsight, I think George & Tony made the right decision; however, I would have tried to keepa my hands off the whole middle east thingy from the word go ---- it's been going on for thousands of years in one form or another and we ain't gonna stop it! Can't stand the French I have met so far in my life and just tolerate the Krauts. Just love to hear them say "Dumkoff Amerikaner" under thier breath, and then ask them who lost WW II --- Likewise wondering what the France' accented German would sound like today if it weren't for the old country & the colonies!

[espeefoamer]

I like American equipment the best, because that is what I am used to.I also like some foreign trains.I have never been overseas or acually seen their trains.I think British steam is too plain to be of much intrest,but I like some of thier diesels,especially the old Deltics. I think French steam is flat out ugly.German steam engines look the most American,except for the red wheels.Austrailian equipment is good looking, because they use 8 wheeled freight cars,like in the US but it looks different enough to be interesting.

[Anonymous]

I have great pleasure in running my little LGB Stainz loco with euro rolling stock on my layout as my Canadian National rivit counter friend cringes in disgust.[}:)]

[grandpopswalt]

Hey Cappy,

Happy New Year. Ah yes, globalization. Someone wrote earlier in this thread that he'd prefer to see many financially comfortable folks than just a few super wealthy ones. I think that this is exactly the point of the globalization debate. As transnational companies move more and more of their operations to less expensive places, what happens to the workers who are displaced and cannot find jobs of equal status in the “industrialized” or “wealthy” nations, such as the US, UK, etc. A very real result is that wealth then migrates upward into fewer and fewer hands.

It doesn’t make much difference to me if a LS loco made in China or some other low cost country can be sold here for 50% less than one made in US, UK, or Germany if my new job pays me only 25% of what I used to make. So it seems to me that as our ability to buy products diminishes, our countries, as markets, become much less important to the transnational companies compared to the emerging Far East markets. And our workforce isn’t nearly as important as it once was now that most of what we used to do can be done elsewhere for half the cost.

So it seems to me that the only way we can help ourselves is to start seriously to consider trading only with local companies. Henry Ford said almost a hundred years ago that business needs to pay its workers a decent wage in order to enable them to be able to buy the goods that are produced in the factories. Apparently that model no longer works. I know most of those economic ideas don’t apply any longer but we, as individuals need to think seriously about how we’re going to protect ourselves.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Maybe this old thing has some life in it. Those of you who also do the MLS thing may recall the growth of the "Dumb Thread!" Our posts look mal-nursished next to that monster, and it has no purpose nor really subject.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

Globalization, like the invention of fire, neither hurts nor hinders our hobby, it simply changes the environment in which we live. As our ancestors did, we must adapt to this new environment or go extinct.

With that said, I must depart this particular debate as I will be gone for a short time on a mission and will loose the thread by the time I return. I enjoyed this greatly! Cpt Carrales-Thanks! I learned a great deal to include:

1. My friends in the UK have a fantastic sense of humor and should be justly proud of thier rich and diverse railroading history.

2. Australian railroading is impressive and deserves more study and respect from the rest of the world.

3. <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=thomas%20the%20tank%20engine" onmouseover="window.status='Thomas the Tank engine'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">Thomas the Tank engine</a> is an excellent tool for interesting the children in railroads.

4. Lucas Electric makes former Soviet countries look competant and innovative.

5. Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordian: all you leave behind is a bunch of noisy baggage.

Thanks to you all!!![:D][:D][(-D][(-D][oX)]

Our debate on this thread has been, and I say this with pride, the singular best forum topic I have participated in. Thank you all.

[tangerine-jack]

Globalization, like the invention of fire, neither hurts nor hinders our hobby, it simply changes the environment in which we live. As our ancestors did, we must adapt to this new environment or go extinct.

With that said, I must depart this particular debate as I will be gone for a short time on a mission and will loose the thread by the time I return. I enjoyed this greatly! Cpt Carrales-Thanks! I learned a great deal to include:

1. My friends in the UK have a fantastic sense of humor and should be justly proud of thier rich and diverse railroading history.

2. Australian railroading is impressive and deserves more study and respect from the rest of the world.

3. Thomas the Tank engine is an excellent tool for interesting the children in railroads.

4. Lucas Electric makes former Soviet countries look competant and innovative.

5. Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without an accordian: all you leave behind is a bunch of noisy baggage.

Thanks to you all!!![:D][:D][(-D][(-D][oX)]

[Anonymous]

So, in the end, is globalization a boon or hinderance to our hobby? I mean, it might allow the free trade that will allow us to by locos et al at a reduced cost, but it may also serve to limit the products made.

On that note, wht do you think of the variety of stuff currently offered?

[tangerine-jack]

I agree, I can go into a mom and pop and get what I want, with a helpful and knowledgable employee assisting me. I use them wherever possible. I've seen small towns in VA (Franklin, Blackstone, etc) actually prosper the small buisness community with the coming of Wal-mart. In some areas there are no real jobs, Wal-mart comes in and hires the entire town, and by defacto encourages other buisnesses to grow such as car washes and restaurants that cater to the influx of people shopping in the town. Now the townfolk have jobs and can afford to buy the goods from ol' Billy-Bob's general store (and get a piece of friendly conversation in the mix). Wal-mart does not sell musical instruments, G scale trains and accesories, high performance motorcycle parts, and many other hobby related items. I also hunt, and Wal-mart is OK for a quick buy of some ammo on your way out at odd hours, but I wouldn't bet my life on the rest of that Chinese junk they pass off to woodsmen as camping and hunting accesories. Some of that stuff will get you dead if you ever had to use it for real. Bottome line is we need to be smarter as consumers, and willing to pay more for what is worth more. LGB makes great stuff, don't be afraid to pay LGB for thier superior products.[oX)]

[Anonymous]

The problem I have with globalization is this,
I like different cultures,people,shops,ideas and ideals.It's getting to the point in England where everytime I go shopping I find the same large stores,selling the same mundane,overpriced merchandise.It puts the smaller,private (interesting ) shops out of business.It's all very well saying'support your local shop'but there are only so many things you can buy.Over here the High Street shops are bought by the main companies.The smaller shops co-exist with these.Then the main companies set up out of town superstores (selling the same stuff,but with easy parking).The main companies can sustain the loss of the High Street decline in trade but the smaller businesses cannot.
In Tenterden where I live,the High Street (once a wonderful display of local produce and design ) has turned into a tourist antique shop nightmare.
And another thing.If everything is the same in the World, would it be a good idea to move all the the tourist attractions to one place,have a quick look,and then nip down to MacDonalds for lunch.
Sorry I forgot,Disney has already done it [censored]
Plus I think that is better to have many comfortably wealthy people than a few superich.
Troy
Troy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

Anyway, Globalization is a fact that cannot be ignored. It is here, it is not going away, so we must learn to live and work within that sphere. I support local manufacutures as much as possible, but sometimes they can't compete with the quality and price of the imports, quality being my deciding factor more than price. Wal-Mart is perhaps the evil being in all this as they dictate to the suppliers what the retail price of a product will be, then leave it up to the supplier to meet that price and still show some kind of profit, or else not do buisiness with Wal-Mart. The supliers then have no choice but to go to Mexico or China in order to cut costs. We are as guilty for buying the cheap products as "they" are for selling them.[oX)]

TJ,
Wal Mart hurt the mom and pop business and now it is coming back to hurt them with law suits even though to them might be small billion dollar and million dollar suits none the less I still miss the mom and pop shops I use to go in.
There still are some out there and I support mine in the surounding towns.

William

[tangerine-jack]

Hey all! I'll keep my French bashing to a minimum as this is not the place for it, but I will say that France is the only country to lose two wars to Italy, and they only won one war in the last 2000 years (French revolution).
So how many Exocets=sunk Royal Navy ships? High hit odds no doubt and shows that the French are well involved in globalization.

Anyway, Globalization is a fact that cannot be ignored. It is here, it is not going away, so we must learn to live and work within that sphere. I support local manufacutures as much as possible, but sometimes they can't compete with the quality and price of the imports, quality being my deciding factor more than price. Wal-Mart is perhaps the evil being in all this as they dictate to the suppliers what the retail price of a product will be, then leave it up to the supplier to meet that price and still show some kind of profit, or else not do buisiness with Wal-Mart. The supliers then have no choice but to go to Mexico or China in order to cut costs. We are as guilty for buying the cheap products as "they" are for selling them.[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi captain carrales
Your request could take a while to process.
i will have to go through a pile of English model publications that goes back to 1973 with the odd 50's and 60's ones
there is definatly articals on a Yanky pullman car for the LMS the southerns shunting loco and a circus train from the US one of your famous circuses.
And I dont mean the one you have to face at work every day[:D]
In the Great Western album by R.C.Riley Published by Ian Allen around 1972 in the GWR at war section pags are not numbered unfortunatly there is a picture of an English freight train being hauled by double header
USATC 2-8-0's near Wooten Bassett (spelling its an old book)in June 1943
this picture shows how small English 4WH goods wagons of the time realy where you can just about make out the UK draw gear on the front I dont know how well the picture will copy.
Bachmann did make Lynn in "G" but it would not get round R1 and I dont think it had the chopper coupling. it should have and it should have been 32mm gauge any way.
The Keighly and Worth valley railway.( don't rely on my spelling) have a web site they have one of the SR 0-6-0 or was it 0-4-0 Yanky tank engine type switchers.
regards John

[Gary Crawley]

Kim
Whats the difference between a piece of toast and a French-man.
You can make soldiers out of a piece of toast.
Gary

[Anonymous]

T Jack,
If the loser gets to keep france let's make sure the loser is france, which is something they're used to (football apart). I've never forgiven them for supplying the Argies with exocet missiles AFTER that little dust up in the south atlantic started. They said it was something to do with business and contracts, it just kept the killing going. I now make it my business NOT to buy anything french when I'm spending my money. Sorry to keep going on but it's a touchy subject with me.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Yes this is all true, I got a bit confused when we went from long bows to motorcycles (I didn't know they still made Trumps).

I am also concerned about globalisation and its affect on things, some things i am as scared as hell about. Small thing power tools where is this all going to end, you can't ignore them very cheap and pretty good. Airlines what was regarded as a move toward
monopoly has now become a fight to survive (Qantas - Air New Zealand merger).

Again we were concerned about monopoly of the media but really these days there are no nationla boundaries, I didn't believe it when I heard Ruper Murdoch espous same about a decade ago but its true, even here in far away Australia, we get the same programmes as New Zealand, Malaysia, Hong Kong and Singapore thats international enough.

Service industries are just that, providing a service to people not a product and if we are not producing product where are we. Here in Queensland we have lead the world in Sugar Cane production for a century, foolishly we sold the technology to Brazil; now that industry is nearly dead, can't compete on quality and price and we did it to ourselves el Nino hurts too.

However there are other jobs in service industruies besides burgers etc. what about being skipper of your own 40 ' Catamaran in the Whitsundays, thats what i was going to do but my knees gave out. That is agood occupation in a service industry Tourism, and I have the experience, qualifications and money to do it.


Regards Ian

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt

Cappy,

In the long run globalization is probably inevitable. All segments of the global economy should eventually find what they are best suited to do. But my concern as an american, and perhaps our european friends should also be concerned, is the short term impact on our workers as transnational businesses rush forward to globalize and maximize profits. There is already turmoil in the workplace as more and more workers are displaced as their jobs are sent elsewhere. It will take at least a generation for workers to aquire the skills necessary to do the jobs of the "future". In the meantime some folks have to work two jobs and still don't make as much as they used to.

My point is that as the average American, English, Austrailian, etc worker earns less and less we as nations become less and less of a contender in the <a href="http://www.serverlogic3.com/lm/rtl3.asp?si=1&k=world%20market" onmouseover="window.status='world market'; return true;" onmouseout="window.status=''; return true;">world market</a>.

Does anyone have a short term solution?

Walt

Globalization may well be the wave of the future, but I feel we need to have safe guards in the national economies to prevent collapse! The US has to have a "lock gear" that could prevent a worldwide depression form attacking its economy, same for UK, OZ, Deutchland and the Orient. Otherwise you will have a "house of cards" senerio that will send the world into an economic situation that could cause a new "Dark age."

Then how would we get our trains? And that is the Economist that is Capt Carrales.

[grandpopswalt]

Cappy,

In the long run globalization is probably inevitable. All segments of the global economy should eventually find what they are best suited to do. But my concern as an american, and perhaps our european friends should also be concerned, is the short term impact on our workers as transnational businesses rush forward to globalize and maximize profits. There is already turmoil in the workplace as more and more workers are displaced as their jobs are sent elsewhere. It will take at least a generation for workers to aquire the skills necessary to do the jobs of the "future". In the meantime some folks have to work two jobs and still don't make as much as they used to.

My point is that as the average American, English, Austrailian, etc worker earns less and less we as nations become less and less of a contender in the world market.

Does anyone have a short term solution?

Walt

[Anonymous]

All excellent points! A service economy is capable to surviving because the "Services" are traded as commodities. One buys stock in an airline or railroad (oddly railroading is a service economy), that is priced and traded like a tengible product.

The problem occurs when the economy isc damaged or stagnant. The business cycle (that visious cycle we capitalists live by- Ah, Adam Smith) dictates that goods are produced in a factory which employs workers. These workers are paid and buy things from the marketplace. The marketplace obtains products from the factory (workplace) which pays the worker. Thus the cycle repeats. This goes so for the service economy, but without products you can grab.

Those that fight for the "one world" marketplace cheer the fact that the US and its western allies are service economies. It means that they will procude products the the Service Economies can no longer manufacture. When the Western Markets collapse, they provide the bailout. From there the seeds of the ONE WORLD SOCIOPOLITICAL Sphere are sown.

This is where many opinions vary.

Now lets aplly this to railroads (model). When goods are produced in the FAR EAST under controlled markets (I.E. Bachmann parts) the prices are dictaded from Peking. The influx or removal of these products from the markets make the price of Large Scale equipment fluxuate. We are at the mercy of these forces. Solution: SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL MANUFACTURES!

Much as been said in the negative about the Domestic Large Scale variety of Great Britain, you will (or should) purchase from them to make them grow and meet the demands of your desires! Same for US companies!

By the way, we have now past the century mark and have six pages of posts on this thread!

Capt Carrales

[grandpopswalt]

Jack and Ben,

My point exactly! If we, meaning much of the western world, no longer produce anything that can be traded, like cars, steel, lumber, and other "things" then how do we earn money with which to buy from those folks who do produce those "things". So it would appear that we're now passing what's left of our money around between ourselves as we "service" each other (you make whatever you want out of the last part of the sentence).

Cappy ....... If I'm not mistaken most if not all of Bachmann's stuff is made in China as is almost evrything else.

Walt

[tangerine-jack]

Yes, a service economy is just that, waiters and burger flippers. Last I looked, everything was made in China.......including poor Thomas and friends!
If you look close enough, your pint bottle was probably made in Taiwan or Mexico, and the milk probably came from the Ukraine. Funny, the only thing I know of made entirely in the US is the Kawasaki Vulcan motorcycle, odly enough a Jap company. So where does the money come from to go to McDonalds anyway, Hmmmm..................................[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hang on a minute.If you're not making anything and we're not making anything,where does it all come from.The last thing I saw with "made in England" on it was a pint of milk !!

[Anonymous]

I think it's when you work as a nurse, work at Mac. Donalds, as a weighter in a restaurant a ticket taker in a park, a police officer, work at a old folks nursing home , at gas stations , at banks, lumber yard s, etc. Ben[2c]

[grandpopswalt]

My undying gratitude to anyone who can explain what the hell a "service" economy is..

Walt

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

So, I take a long weekend and there are 3 more pages to this topic!! Well, on that note, hey kimbrit, yes it is hard to believe America invented absolutely everything, but it's true! I ride and restore Triumph motorcycles and yes, weeds are not a problem under a parked bike, along with your boots not rusting from the oil splatters. Harleys may be assembled in the US, but the wheels, wiring, fuel and ignition systems are all Jap.
To kimbrit and troybetts and all the other UK readers, the next time I'm in the UK, drinks at Gillespie's are on me! I'll even by dinner at the Peppermill!
To our Aussie readers, thanks for your support in the war on terror, you guys are the absolute best! It's too bad we can't understand a thing you say.
The next time we pull Europe out of the fire, the loser gets to keep France!

Back into the fray!!!!!!!![oX)]

It is no secret that the Economy of the United States has made a shift from a goods economy (manufacturing) to one of a service economy. I prefer Bachmann Trains, not so much that they are American Made, but rather becuase they are within my price range.


A bit on manufacturing...

Much of the LGB stuff is wunderbar, but it is higly expensive. My hat goes (and I sometimes think i am the only man in the western hemisphere who still wears a fedora hat) off the Germans for their excellent (albiet expensive) items.

Aristo is pretty good also, I am in awe over their variety and I plan to use thier track, with its hex-head screws, for my main lines (LGB for sidings).

USA TRAINS has an excellent "work train series," but I cannot find a retailer or regular wholesaler that sells any of it. Must one order it directly from them?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Hi Joe,
For the record mate, that was the Normans. We usually beat the c**p out of the French and then pull them out of it when the Germans go on a european tour. Another little tit-bit, the good old V sign, of the insulting sort, came about around the time of Agincourt when the French used to cut the first and middle fingers off when they captured an English long- bow man. Before the battle the longbow men gave the French the V sign to show they had their fingers. The rest, as they say, is......................
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Assimilating invaders, hmmmm, are we the Borg??[;)]

Kim,

Yes, ah... the Normans. They didn't stay French for long. Much of the vocabulary we use today is of Norman extraction. English has the dubious honor of being a Germanic language with Romance (i.e. the Romans) vocabulary.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Capt Carrales
When your lads went home at the end of WWII a lot of their trains got left behind and if some is modeling the right period should have some wagons
and coaches that are obviously of US orrigins even though they have UK Buffers and drawgear on them the same goes for europe
In this modern day and age it is not so easy to pick what is of US orrigin a case in point is the Yeoman quarry company diesles I thought the English designer should be shot for that one only to discover that thier obviouse U.K modern design was in fact a product of General Motors no points for guessing where they are based[:D]
It is not so easy in all cases with the modern stuff to sat this is from the UK or this is from the US ect as it is Now primaraly designed for where and what it is to be used for rather than a definative nationaly defined design like they used to be so without looking at the builders plates it can be a case of your guess is as good as mine as to who built it
regards John

John,

Do you have any photos of any of these trains of "US origins with UK Buffers" and et al? Maybe some museum or Railroad page if you have none yourself. I would kind of like to see that.

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

Hi Gary
The Indian Pacific coaches where built or was it designed by the Germans as was the old prospector set.
the SAR stuff is strongly influenced by the US WAGR by the Poms NSWGR
canot make up its mind and QR also seems to have a strong UK influence
now the US owns 1/2 of most of it.
regards John

[Gary Crawley]

Capt
I have no idea how much rolling stock made it to Pomy land but lots came down under.
Beside locos most passenger stock was ex US design. Even today our long distant trains have US origins.
We still run passenger trains over 1 KM long (Indian Pacific and the Ghan)
The type of trains you Guy's would of had in the 50's and 60's.
There is still a lot of Budd stainless heavy cars in service.
I's a real tourist growth industry.
There still is a lot of narrow gauge stuff about as well.
One thing that the Poms did was to steal back from Tassie one of the last narrow gauge Garrets left in the world, (put back in service) that was used on the logging lines.

One thing you Yanks did when you had your little tiff with the Poms (over tea) was to make them send their crims to Oz, thanks, many were great engineers, and they created a great infastructure (Roads, Bridges & Buildings etc)
I hate to take sides but the Pomy locos could not handle our harsh conditions (long dry runs) so we prefered the US stock although we built many large Garrets for freight service.
Although after saying that our most famous loco the3800 class was of UK origin.

Gary

[tangerine-jack]

So, I take a long weekend and there are 3 more pages to this topic!! Well, on that note, hey kimbrit, yes it is hard to believe America invented absolutely everything, but it's true! I ride and restore Triumph motorcycles and yes, weeds are not a problem under a parked bike, along with your boots not rusting from the oil splatters. Harleys may be assembled in the US, but the wheels, wiring, fuel and ignition systems are all Jap.
To kimbrit and troybetts and all the other UK readers, the next time I'm in the UK, drinks at Gillespie's are on me! I'll even by dinner at the Peppermill!
To our Aussie readers, thanks for your support in the war on terror, you guys are the absolute best! It's too bad we can't understand a thing you say.
The next time we pull Europe out of the fire, the loser gets to keep France!

Back into the fray!!!!!!!![oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Joe,
For the record mate, that was the Normans. We usually beat the c**p out of the French and then pull them out of it when the Germans go on a european tour. Another little tit-bit, the good old V sign, of the insulting sort, came about around the time of Agincourt when the French used to cut the first and middle fingers off when they captured an English long- bow man. Before the battle the longbow men gave the French the V sign to show they had their fingers. The rest, as they say, is......................
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

Assimilating invaders, hmmmm, are we the Borg??[;)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Capt Carrales
When your lads went home at the end of WWII a lot of their trains got left behind and if some is modeling the right period should have some wagons
and coaches that are obviously of US orrigins even though they have UK Buffers and drawgear on them the same goes for europe
In this modern day and age it is not so easy to pick what is of US orrigin a case in point is the Yeoman quarry company diesles I thought the English designer should be shot for that one only to discover that thier obviouse U.K modern design was in fact a product of General Motors no points for guessing where they are based[:D]
It is not so easy in all cases with the modern stuff to sat this is from the UK or this is from the US ect as it is Now primaraly designed for where and what it is to be used for rather than a definative nationaly defined design like they used to be so without looking at the builders plates it can be a case of your guess is as good as mine as to who built it
regards John

[powlee]

Yes indeed Capt.
As well as american locos running in my garden, there are a number of Alco S-1`s running on preserved lines. A colleague of mine at my model railway club actually is part owner of an Alco based in Wallingford, England.
By the way, my parents told me the Yanks invaded us during the World War II and some never went home.
All the best
Ian P

[Anonymous]

I am very pleased with how this thread is maturing! (5 pages and over 80 posts!) It's a good thing I didn't use the really controversial topic and went for the lesser.

Only the Romans, Vikings and the French (ironically all modern day bastions of tranquility) have actually invaded England. You, the Brittons, have this uncanny way of assimilating the invaders that seems to save British culture. It too happened in the 13 Colonies that became the USA, all the German, Sweedish and Dutch settlers of Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York, all became basically English.

Does any "American" rolling stock ever make its way onto British Railroads? (either in Large scale or 1:1) I have never seen any European trains (with the exception of a few German Diesels) on American lines.

[Anonymous]

Hey Captain,
You forget that we have not been invaded for centuries.I think all the tank traps were left in France and Germany.
Well I must say a big thankyou to everyone.My wife read this thread and for a small time actually discussed trains in the garden.
Still would not let me expand though[:(].
I must admit when she started reading I was thinking 'did I say anything derogatory towards her' but no[:D].That must have been on another post [:-,]
Thanks all,Troy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Hello Mrs Betts,

If Troys railway blocks a large part of your garden does that mean that he only has a small part left to build in? I suspect you're quite pleased that Troy isn't into it to the extent that your father-in-law is!!

Have a gud un,
Cheers,
Kim[tup]

My wife is not a gardener, our side yard was just that. Mostly used for parking, but now it Micaela County, Texas. All I have to worry about is someone driving over the garden.

Any of you Brits have some of those tank traps left over from WWII?

[Anonymous]

Thankyou very much for your kind welcomes and replies. I am fortunate indeed that Troy has spared parts of the garden for myself and the children and he is quite insistent that the 320ft of track "blends in". My father in law's garden railway has entirely done away with the garden itself however, he clearly derives alot of pleasure from it.
We are fortunate here in that, not only do the children involve themselves in the garden railway, but they also have the steam railway which crosses the main road out of here. Far from being annoyed at the wait, we usually end up having to slow down and stop in advance of the gates being shut so that the children can see which train it is (They all still have names). The children did not know that electric trains existed until we took a tube in London and even then they thought there must be a diesel pulling it. Of course their only other knowledge of trains had come from the Thomas videos. They still do not conceive of the modern electric train. In this respect Thomas has been particularly influential.

Andrea

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Mrs Betts
[#welcome]
If I may be so bold I sugest you take on the garden side of the railway so that
you still have some garden left for your favorite plants
Thats what hapens in my garden as left to it i would have a great railway
but it would be err what's a garden.
In reality the two should be a colective whole that one doesn't look right without the other.and even some places where its look is what railway
I dont see no railway
Sorry Troy but you must leave your good lady some garden to potter around in[:D]
regards John

I try to make the railroad more utilitarian, it will haul the produce out of the garden. in return, the plants agree to serve as trees.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Harley Davidson does NOT sell motorcycles...............
What they sell is the ability for a 50 year old, overweight accountant to dress in black leather, ride through small towns and open country roads scaring the s**t out of people.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

I agree Kim!

Nothing like a Triumph Sprint ST [:D]

[Anonymous]

Hi Mrs Betts
[#welcome]
If I may be so bold I sugest you take on the garden side of the railway so that
you still have some garden left for your favorite plants
Thats what hapens in my garden as left to it i would have a great railway
but it would be err what's a garden.
In reality the two should be a colective whole that one doesn't look right without the other.and even some places where its look is what railway
I dont see no railway
Sorry Troy but you must leave your good lady some garden to potter around in[:D]
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hello Mrs Betts,

If Troys railway blocks a large part of your garden does that mean that he only has a small part left to build in? I suspect you're quite pleased that Troy isn't into it to the extent that your father-in-law is!!

Have a gud un,
Cheers,
Kim[tup]

[Gary Crawley]

Hey Guy's
One day we all should get together
"This is Heaven"
In Canberra you can get home delivered beer.
Use your imagination, Home delivered Pizza and Beer, sitting in your special chair with the train remote in your hand if only the wife would bring out the coldies.(beer)
Maybe I could teach the kids to do it when they are older or put a bar fridge out the back.
Hey a "Beer Train" (Thomas the tanked engine)
I wonder if you can be charged for Drink Driving a garden railway
Regards
Gary

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Hello Troy's Wife here. I've read this thread for Troy's sake and although I have no interest in trains because they block a large part of my garden I am very curious about the tenuous links that seem to have developed here. I spent a year in Australia and was awed by the beauty and expanse of it. I found the Australians to be incredibly friendly and welcoming and yet there was an obviously strong link to America by way of advertising etc. Just curious does America also have drive in off licences (Bottle Shops)

Welcome, Ma'am,

Its a pleasure to meet you. In Texas was have what are called "Drive-Thru Barns." They are a bit catch-22 though, our nation looks unfavorably at drunken driving, albiet more beer is sold from these establishments than in bars and pubs.

Very Curious, indeed!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Now would'nt that be a cracking time.We would all be in our countries corners,with our flags behind us ,and our favourite trains in front of us.In between the ice cube throwing war there would be a minor wrestling match on the floor about prototypicle paint schemes.
In between the fight Kim and I would be stealing all the metal wheel sets that we could find (the're far too expensive over here)
With Captain and his band supplying the music and the Aussies providing the beer it would be great.
I love this forum[:D]
Troy

We could set up a parallel set of rails and have a "race off!" Or, we could have "Stockcar Racing"...Microferroquinologist style! A locomotive and a consist of stockcars racing their way to victory!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Gary
This too & from is an Aussie and I got the paper to prove it[:D]
That will teach you to head to the big smoke you miss all the fun[:D]
Handy having all the answers before the question has been asked.
mind you the answer to CC's question is a pearler Answer = Yes and No
depending on where in the world you are and personal taste.
certanly sparked a good debate and some light hearted fun as well.
Pity they are to far away to meet in person over a few ales.
regards John

It would be a rare pleasue to meet you all, and at the same time would be spectacular!

Is there any of us with the finances to make that happen? I know any trip to Dunnunder would be years off (both in finances and family situation), unless some millionaire (or billionaire) could invest in my microferroquinology.

As for ale...Bring it on! In fact, I'll have one for each of y'all!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Gary Crawley

Wow
I go to Melbourne for a few day's and when I come back to the Forum I find the Poms and Yanks at war, just kidding it's great to see the friendly stiring going on.
It.s also interesting to get the history lessons, as far as Thomas my grandson (3 years old) loves him and when he comes around to visit he thinks the garden railway has been built for Thomas.
What I now relalise is, Thomas is doing more for our great hobby by promoting it to the young than we could ever have dreamed of.
After all most of us became hooked after we were given toy trains as a kid.

Just to stir a bit more do you guys in the North understand that we "Down Under" can reply to your comments the day before you put them on the Forum, so no matter what you guys do you always be behind us in Oz.

Gary

Poms and Yanks at war! Peri***he thought! I would say that US/ Aussie relations are at an all time high in this forum.[:D]

I enjoy the magnificent artwork of some of my Daughter's Thomas books. I really enjoy the television program as well. I would most whole heartedly agree that Thomas is introducing a full generation to trains in general. Most trains in the US are seen as a menace (people can hardly wait until the have passed, since they block the road) I contend quite the contrary, these brief "time outs" are a Godsend in these rapid and stressful days.

Most children these days know the world "Choo-Choo train," but have never heard a train that goes choo-choo!

The space-time continuum disrupted by the Aussies! Great Scott! [:0] I knew there was some code hidden in the constellations on your national flag![:D]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mrs. Betts

Just curious does America also have drive in off licences (Bottle Shops)

Mrs. Betts, If getting what your saying, the answer is yes we do have "drive thru" carryouts.

Mrs. Betts,[#welcome]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Gary Crawley

Wow
What I now relalise is, Thomas is doing more for our great hobby by promoting it to the young than we could ever have dreamed of.
After all most of us became hooked after we were given toy trains as a kid.

Gary

Gary you said it! I've read so many times that steam will be dead with the upcoming generations, Thomas is proving them wrong!

[Anonymous]

Hello Troy's Wife here. I've read this thread for Troy's sake and although I have no interest in trains because they block a large part of my garden I am very curious about the tenuous links that seem to have developed here. I spent a year in Australia and was awed by the beauty and expanse of it. I found the Australians to be incredibly friendly and welcoming and yet there was an obviously strong link to America by way of advertising etc. Just curious does America also have drive in off licences (Bottle Shops)

[Anonymous]

Now would'nt that be a cracking time.We would all be in our countries corners,with our flags behind us ,and our favourite trains in front of us.In between the ice cube throwing war there would be a minor wrestling match on the floor about prototypicle paint schemes.
In between the fight Kim and I would be stealing all the metal wheel sets that we could find (the're far too expensive over here)
With Captain and his band supplying the music and the Aussies providing the beer it would be great.
I love this forum[:D]
Troy

[Anonymous]

Here here John,
Nothing would give me greater pleasure than a few beers with all my mates from this forum and to rip the p**s out of each other in between beer and train talk.
Cheers to you all guys,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

Hi Gary
This too & from is an Aussie and I got the paper to prove it[:D]
That will teach you to head to the big smoke you miss all the fun[:D]
Handy having all the answers before the question has been asked.
mind you the answer to CC's question is a pearler Answer = Yes and No
depending on where in the world you are and personal taste.
certanly sparked a good debate and some light hearted fun as well.
Pity they are to far away to meet in person over a few ales.
regards John

[Gary Crawley]

Wow
I go to Melbourne for a few day's and when I come back to the Forum I find the Poms and Yanks at war, just kidding it's great to see the friendly stiring going on.
It.s also interesting to get the history lessons, as far as Thomas my grandson (3 years old) loves him and when he comes around to visit he thinks the garden railway has been built for Thomas.
What I now relalise is, Thomas is doing more for our great hobby by promoting it to the young than we could ever have dreamed of.
After all most of us became hooked after we were given toy trains as a kid.

Just to stir a bit more do you guys in the North understand that we "Down Under" can reply to your comments the day before you put them on the Forum, so no matter what you guys do you always be behind us in Oz.

Gary

[grandpopswalt]

Troy,

Every country has it's own version of what is fact and historic reality. I remember visiting a WWII war museum on a mountaintop near Toulon, France many years ago. When you arrived at the museum you were shown a short film that was supposed to be an accurate story of not only the battle of Toulon but also the liberation of Paris. The film suggested that the French forces almost singlehandedly drove out the Germans and freed the citizens of Paris. It was hard to find a single British, American, Russian, etc soldier anywhere in the film clips.

I was in the military at time and remember being offended by this revisionist attitude. But I now can forgive that shading of the truth because I realize that even today many Americans aren't aware that our Colonists were greatly aided by the French and the Germans in our struggle against you guys, we even had Polish generals in the continental army. As I recall most of the history classes I took treated this fact as a minor issue. There are countless other examples in every country where we look at the world with blinders on.

Of course we think we're great, you do too and so do the French and on and on....... that's called nationalism, we're all guilty of it and there's nothing wrong with it.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Hi guys,
Just back into work from the weekend drinking binge. This topic is flying along at a great pace, I think I'll have to consider re-connecting the net back home! Ditto Troy Captain, we don't take offence. We just hang around until you think we've forgotten what it was about then jump all over you!! What's Yorktown? did something happen there? Our York has the national rail museum, wonderful place. Well, after all the jibes about Triumph bikes, Lucas electrics, Brit locos, the state of our army at the time we let you have America back (our supply line was a few thousand miles with wind powered transport) can I paraphrase something I have about an American institution.

Harley Davidson does NOT sell motorcycles...............
What they sell is the ability for a 50 year old, overweight accountant to dress in black leather, ride through small towns and open country roads scaring the s**t out of people.

Well done everybody, IAN/JOHN and all you Australians, I apologise, I didn't mean to eat skippy all those months ago. T-JACK/CAPTAIN and all you Americans, no apologies at all - I've loved every minute of this[(-D][:-,]We're all eating sand in the same c**p hole so I think that best sums up what it's all about. [2c]
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[Anonymous]

No offence taken Captain.
The US is so big that it does not notice what goes on around it or remember its history of where it came from.This (as with us) could be its biggest downfall.It's a shame the language barrier omits most of Europe on this forum regarding steam railways,otherwise you may have dug yurself a big hole regarding this topic.
Well done with the support Ian,I'm sure Kim will add his say[:D]

[Anonymous]

Thank's for the information and history lesson Vic!

[vsmith]

Portholes go back to the first attempts at providing weather and wind protection on the open cabs of early steam engines. The earliest being a simple steel plate in front of the backhead that acted as a windscreen, into this was added openings to allow for forward vision, these were cut as circles, why, because a round plate of glass is stronger than a square plate and its easier to cut a circle into a steel plate than a square. If you'll notice almost every engine that has portholes is a tank engine, the water tanks taking up the area of the sideboards. Tank engines did not catch on here in America, plus development went off in a total different direction than Englan.

Early American engines far more quickliy took to providing some form of enclosed cab. These were built of wood, not steel like in England. Wood framing brought a rectilinear shape and rectiliniear square windows because they were easier to build. This has a lot to due with the distances a train must cover, in America it quickly became apparent that crews would be exposed to the weather for greater distances, in more climatic conditions and in far more remote regions. In England the distances a single crew might have to take an open cab engine were generally shorter and their times of exposure would also be less. Although I suspect a certain level of Sado-masochism as to WHY open cabs lasted as long as they did, clear into the late 19th century where in American they were gone by 1850.

Another design diffference that takes the porthole into account is the lack of front doors on the cabs of English and Euro locos and an almost none existant sideboard, where as on American loco from the start often had substantial sideboards to allow train crews to walk out along side the boiler to the front of the engine,British engines never showed the use of sidebaords as anything more than a place to mount the nameplate. There are no door at the front of the cab, to go out onto the boiler to the front of the train simply wasnt done. In America 2 small doors here installed in the wood cabs so the fireman could go out and light the headlamp without having to stop the whole train, check how the engines valves were sounding, check or adjust injectors, and also allow brake men to scramble from one end of a train to the other while in motion. This was in the days of hand set brakes but the tradition of using the sideboards continued right into the 20th century and today with the sidewalks all modern diesels have to the nose doors of safety cabs.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

It's called difference in cultures.Contrary to US beliefs the World is not America shaped.There is a lot of land out there with different things in it.The reason portholes did not catch on is that some bloke got hold of it and made it American.I think the same applies to films.I find it incredible that in filmworld,the US has invented everything,solved everything and saved everything.
If we had BigBoy or Challenger engines in England there would be no point in steaming them up.Park the tender down south,walk the length of the train and you are in Scotland!
Every country has its own traditions and ideas.(and unfortunately a MacDonalds)
Great Britain has had the highest ratio of inventers of any country.It's just a shame that we can't make the stuff.(look at Lucas electrical systems)
I have a video of all the Aussie railways and I really think Americans should watch it before feeling superior[:D]
Quote"
Since I have never ventured to Brittania would some one of knowledge please let me know, is 'homas the Tank Engine an fair picture of British Railroading? What is the main difference in these "old world" technologies and those operation in America?

Sorry to spoil any dreams but the trains in England do not all have faces and talk.What is this 'old world technology' business.We've been here a long time.Made alot of mistakes (empire included (but still the largest empire in human history))
but still amble along trying to help (now who could that be)where we can.
I know the trains leak but nothing leaks oil like a Triumph motorcycle.You can leave it standing for months knowing that no weeds are going to grow under it[8D]
A quick stir up and I feel better
Troy

I didn't mean to portray my position as one that placed American trains as "superior," albiet that was the cut of my brother's jib. I wished only to focus on the differences in style and to their origins.

There is a distinct difference in technology on the two sides of the ocean. I charactierize much of the European styles as "Old World," this is not meant to say antiquated, but rather as a measure of style. Our railroads here in America are based on frontier needs of the 19th century. Whereas railroads in England and the Continent were subject to roads that had been in place for centuries and had to devlop accordingly, America is a distinct opposite. Railroads paved the way across the nation to fulfill the doctrine of Manifest Destiny, roads and cities "poped" up later.


I appologize for the "Anti-Anglo" statements made on this forum, I took them to be jests and harmless ribbing. I, however, cannot subscribe to the belief that English and other British elements are inferior. That is simply untrue!

[Anonymous]

A little more than a year ago I was at the Trainfest at the New Jersey Aquarium in Camden when I photographed this "Teutonic Thomas" that my large scale buddy Charles had with him. It is based on a Spreewald locomotive.

Dieser Thomas ist wunderbar!

Regards,
Bill C.
South Jersey

[powlee]

We Brits try to put on the `stiff upper lip` whilst being the butt of ex-colonists jibes but as you see from the letters, we have to break cover eventually.
Sure we are a small island so we cut our cloth accordingly. Years ago, our TV was mostly american made shows, now they have to be really good to be given airtime. So we don`t see much of them !!
Through TV we learnt more about the States than americans knew of us. We pioneered air and rail travel but we knew when our time had come. Concorde was a magnificent achievement but it had to be baled out by the government before it could begin it`s magnificent career.
Steam trains were replaced by Diesel but our love for them shows that there are more preserved working steam trains in Britain now than on the last day of steam in 1967.
I holiday in the US regularly. Always enjoy it. You have the room to expand, we don`t. Always try to see as many of your railroads. Standing up at Flagstaff watching the freight go by. Magnificent.
Asked by a resident.
`Your accent, what is it?`
`English`
`You are from England`
`Is that near London?`
Nuff said !!
Cheers Ian P

[Anonymous]

As far as port hole windows go.... they were used in the U.S. Didn't the EMD F3 have them along the sides of the body. Also there was a gas-electric built by McKeen that had port hole windows all around, front, back and sides.

While some things were invented in the US railroads were not one of those things. If I'm not mistaken the Germans built the first crude railway for a mine of some sort. Then the English are credited with the first locomotive hauled railway running from a slate mine to a sea port.
ALL other railways and railroads came after that and are nothing more than adaptations of the original idea.

Just thought I would point this out since my blood line is over half English even though my ser-name is from Holland. [:D]

May all your weeds be wild flowers.......OLD DAD

[Anonymous]

Hello John
The Thomas I have is by Lionel.If Thomas is the usual quality from Lionel I don't think I will be buying anything else from them.I know they also do a James but I have searched everywhere but can't find him.The children love him to bits .At least I always know where he is on the layout 'cause I can hear him.
Troy

[Anonymous]

Hi Troy
What brand is the Thomas set I am begining to think I may have to knock
one up from one of the may toys rather than geting a "G" scale train set.
By the way IP engineering do Shelly the tram as a battery powered Kit
no prizes for noticing a strong resembalnse to Toby even comes with the option of a face.
regards John

[Anonymous]

Hey John,
We have the Fat Controller along with the G scale Thomas(god bless his little noisy plastic gears) and Annie and Claribel.The coaches have to go in a certain order so my boys tell me.Just down the road from me there is a preserved steam railway where Thomas visits quite often.And I mean the 'real' Thomas.My workplace is right next to the station.If I I told my customers that I was late getting my van out because Thomas The Tank Engine was blocking the road with his transport lorry they would think I was taking the p**..But it's true.Next time he comes to visit I will get my camera out.I'll be the fat controller and if he gives me any lip,I'll punch him.(or enlist help from Diesel.He's usually there as well!)
The result is that my children think (well,they know ) that Thomas is real.They hear him go past the fields near my house.Bugger!
Troy

[Anonymous]

Closest thing I have to Toby. I call it "Sir Frey," after my maternal grandfather who was a model train fan and an early customer of Nicholas Smith Trains in Philadelphia. He belonged to a lodge where it was the tradition to call each other "sir," hence the name.

Regards,
Bill C.
South Jersey

[Anonymous]

Hi Troy
They do have faces and talk on Sodor[:D]
Thomas is I think based on a 3F tank engine of the old LMS if not that one of the many others from the U.K I do know for sure not a Brighton Terrier no pagoda roof.
By the way by my reckoning Sir Topem Hat AKA The Fat Controler as made by Ertle (spelling?) is about the right size for most "G" scale layouts bear in mind he is only 4'6" or there abouts tall just watch a video and you will see what I mean.I don't have Thomas but Sir Topem Hat keeps the Line in order
regards John

[Anonymous]

It's called difference in cultures.Contrary to US beliefs the World is not America shaped.There is a lot of land out there with different things in it.The reason portholes did not catch on is that some bloke got hold of it and made it American.I think the same applies to films.I find it incredible that in filmworld,the US has invented everything,solved everything and saved everything.
If we had BigBoy or Challenger engines in England there would be no point in steaming them up.Park the tender down south,walk the length of the train and you are in Scotland!
Every country has its own traditions and ideas.(and unfortunately a MacDonalds)
Great Britain has had the highest ratio of inventers of any country.It's just a shame that we can't make the stuff.(look at Lucas electrical systems)
I have a video of all the Aussie railways and I really think Americans should watch it before feeling superior[:D]
Quote"
Since I have never ventured to Brittania would some one of knowledge please let me know, is Thomas the Tank Engine an fair picture of British Railroading? What is the main difference in these "old world" technologies and those operation in America?

Sorry to spoil any dreams but the trains in England do not all have faces and talk.What is this 'old world technology' business.We've been here a long time.Made alot of mistakes (empire included (but still the largest empire in human history))
but still amble along trying to help (now who could that be)where we can.
I know the trains leak but nothing leaks oil like a Triumph motorcycle.You can leave it standing for months knowing that no weeds are going to grow under it[8D]
A quick stir up and I feel better
Troy

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by railman

that is interesting...why didn't the porthole windows catch on here in the US?

That's a really good question...maybe we can ask some Europeans and Aussies.

What's up with porthole windows? Is it a regal thing, i.e. like castle ramparts and Mini Coopers? Is it some style thing or more functional in nature?

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carpenter matt

Capt, That's why I kinda like doing the Waynesburg& Washington RR It ran only 2-6-0 Mogul's other than 1, 2-4-0 Porter that was sold by the line for not having enough power and a 4-4-0 that was tested on the line and returned to the builder as unsatisfactory. Make's it simple to model, now I just need a pile of cash for a fleet of Moguls[:D]

That's it, you and I are modeling rail lines that are in similar financial states as their owners. Patience is a model railroaders greatest virtue!

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Marty Cozad

I remember way back hearing of this "outdoor" trains. even saw a LGB loop in a yard cutting through the grass. Wondered,,WHY on earth ,so- so forth.
Anyway i think you smaller loco guys are wise, I always owe on my cards.
I'm so tempted by these new "monster" engines that i lust after them. (for lack of a better word)
The the whole reason i even look at trains is ,,,,THE POWER,,,,, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, brut force.
Even when i tell folks will limited space to run only 4 axle engines and 40ft cars so they look good. I would never live by that. Even if i could not run the engine ,I'd buy it and put it on a siding.
When visitors come over the rush for me is (not their oh and ahs) its when those -9s pull the slack out of the Kadee #830s on a long heavy train ,and they strain to get the load rolling.
I remember the first time I pulled 60 cars, I was sitting by the engines and you could see them squat down, bow the couplers and slip alittle,,,then move the load.
MAN, this ain't NO girlly man hobby.!!!!

I too, enjoy the power of locos pulling miles of train, don't get me wrong. My dad has a sizable ranch (though moderate), if he ever gives me the go ahead, we will charter the Carrales Industrial Railroad (CIRR) and my first purchase will be a Dash-9. It will be a modern layout, while the N&MRR will be more of the steam era.

You and I can laugh all the way to the poor house! [:D] But at least we will be railroad tycoons (eat your hear out, Sid Meier![:p])

Capt Carrales

[Anonymous]

Capt, That's why I kinda like doing the Waynesburg& Washington RR It ran only 2-6-0 Mogul's other than 1, 2-4-0 Porter that was sold by the line for not having enough power and a 4-4-0 that was tested on the line and returned to the builder as unsatisfactory. Make's it simple to model, now I just need a pile of cash for a fleet of Moguls[:D]

[Marty Cozad]

I remember way back hearing of this "outdoor" trains. even saw a LGB loop in a yard cutting through the grass. Wondered,,WHY on earth ,so- so forth.
Anyway i think you smaller loco guys are wise, I always owe on my cards.
I'm so tempted by these new "monster" engines that i lust after them. (for lack of a better word)
The the whole reason i even look at trains is ,,,,THE POWER,,,,, rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, brut force.
Even when i tell folks will limited space to run only 4 axle engines and 40ft cars so they look good. I would never live by that. Even if i could not run the engine ,I'd buy it and put it on a siding.
When visitors come over the rush for me is (not their oh and ahs) its when those -9s pull the slack out of the Kadee #830s on a long heavy train ,and they strain to get the load rolling.
I remember the first time I pulled 60 cars, I was sitting by the engines and you could see them squat down, bow the couplers and slip alittle,,,then move the load.
MAN, this ain't NO girlly man hobby.!!!!

[Anonymous]

Goodie, 45 replies in 48 hours...yep, the lull is dead!

Well, I would say that I like a mixture on medium sized to small locos. A well run railroad, in my opinion only, is one that has a variey of engines. For example, some mainline medium engines (to pull passenger and freight) and then a few small things to pull lesser consists with a few switcher for good measure.

I too have a soft spot for large steam and am blown away by diesels (namely Marty's), but I cannot afford them right now so I am basing my N&MRR on something like the small San Antonio and Aransas Pass Railroad of my town. It had numerous ten-wheelers and moguls before it was taken over by Southern Pacific.

[Anonymous]

[#ditto]

I too prefer the smallest trains but three foot gauge still seems to large for my taste. The little 20", 18" & 15" lines get my blood pumpin' no matter what country they live in.

OLD DAD

[vsmith]

Marty, Thomas it looks great. Your going to need a James engine soon to keep Thomas company.

Cappy, MTH is going to issue a 1/32 Big Boy next year to go with the Challenger, which is a very very impressive model, the Big Boy should be more so. It will be about the same price.

As for me I've always enjoyed the smallest engines, Its the prime reason I went to LS. The 8 ton Porter being my favorite and at 1/20 scale I can model stuff like the cab interiors. I dont like idea of the really large engines unless I had a big enough layout to really set them off like your's Marty's. I suppose even if I did I would still stick to the critters and dinky's I like most.[;)]

Bigger is not alway better[:D]

[Marty Cozad]

Capt
If the Big Boy was in 1:29 th I may be tempted. I've seen the 1:32 in action around 1:22 and 1:24 , 1:29. It just doesn't have the Glory and stand out as it does in real life. ( my personal opinion ONLY) If a RR had 1:32 only then it would be OK. I'm hoping the new Aristo Mallet doesn't have any bugs in its first run, Its a fine looker. The Mike kinda squats alittle to much at the cab.
Whats funny is when I was at Durango, i loved the narrow gauge trains, the glory and power of them. But when compared to a modern prime mover ,I'm drawn to them.
its hard to put into words.
Like I find it hard to see why folks like little 0-4-0 switchers, yet if I lived near a museum where I could help work on and run one, I'd go for it. Know what I mean???
The Aristo Mallet


I can see this engine very weathered or even shiny pulling the U.P. passenger train.[:p]

This is why i bought Thomas

This is what sets GRying apart from the baby scales. BIG, down at kids level. trains at the same level as TONKA... Most of my earier roads were built buy TONKA.
Just the word TONKA set it apart from other toy truck makers.

[Anonymous]

Marty,

Outstanding pics of Thomas en route! I noticed you were very much a diesel man, would you ever shell out for a Big Boy? Does anyone make a Big Boy?

It would be impressive going over that large bridge you have pulling those UP coaches you've posted before!

[Marty Cozad]

Thomas arrives in Table Creek Station

Ol Tom was shipped in just for the kiddys that visit our RR. He is now battery power and thrills the hearts of many.
And yes he takes the siding when 4 prime movers come fling by with a fast container train.

Now i did not read many of the post here, but i do remember a story an older dude told me about the prison camp here in NE that held Gremans. Some of the US railfan gaurds befriended the railfan Germans, why ,,because of the the love of trains.
WHY,, because U.P. main line ran by it with the BIG BOY pulling a 100 car train at 100 mph. NOW that,, will make any person, stare in AH.
Brings tears to my eyes just thinking of it.
BTY, after the war the Germans was invited by the Americans to come over to NE and ,,,ride those Big Boys. Dang, COOOOL.

[Anonymous]

Hey Jack i think you are living in a little dream world if you think that any US railway nor any railway for that matter, hauling normal freight can compete with the big miing operations. Consists 3 to 5 km long are the norm with 5 up locos and the tonnage looks like numbers out of a telephone book.

If any one asked what was the busiest port in Australia you would have to say Sydney but really it is a minnow compared to Port Headlland in WA. Really they are transporting an entire continent away to Japan and China.

If you can; try to get the figures and you will be amazed at the tonnage and thats what it is all about. Dead flat terrain, with straight tracks and huge automatic loading and unloading of iron ore and other stuff into massive ships.

REeally this is another world and unless you have at least seen it on video you can not appreciate it.


Ian

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Busby

Hi Capt Carrales
Now how did that drill go Ah yes bite off the ball prime the pan powder down
the barrell spit in the ball ram it aim Fire and dot forget to put the ram rod back in its hoops fire it at the enemy and I will have to ask you to go and get it.
Where are Sharpe and Harper When you need them!!
FORM SQUARE FIX (Pause for effect) BAYONETS!!! FRONT RANK KNEEL.
Nine oclock Gentlemen BAGGAGE TO THE REAR[:D]
Must be reading to many Bernard Cornwell Books[:D]
regards John

Well, so long as I don't see the "whites of your eyes" you will be safe! [:D]

[tangerine-jack]

Good question about the military figures. That brings us right back to "which scale"? I know that 1/24, 1/35, 1/87 and lots psuedo scale figures are available from the toy department. Most I've seen are in the 1/87 scale with a huge selection of armies and eras. Back again to "what looks right". I mean you could use GI Joes if you wanted to. Any good soldier should be well enough camoflaged (camer-flashed as the Canadians would say) so as not to be seen anyway. My own RR has at least 15 snipers crawling around, I can never see them, but I find a dead bird every so often so I know they are there [;)] I also have a "Predator" with his invisible suit in the "on" position, can't never find him either, his suit wasn't made by Lucas Electric.

Sorry to imply the commonweath was still using flintlocks, I stand corrected and am pleased that rifles are now issue items. Don't worry so much about 1812, you guys beat the hell out of the Japanese during their aborted invasion of Port Moresby. [oX)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

You got that wraped up tight, John! Is that how the Commonweath Forces still do it? You forgot the "pray it's not raining" command! Well, time to put on my wool jacket and tri-corner hat, I think I see a redcoat! Somebody fife and drum me into the battle please! Wait, is that a Brown Bess I see leaking oil everywhere? Maybe it's a Napoleon 12 pounder. Wish I could see, my Lucas torch isn't working.................[oX)]

Hi Tangarine Jack
But the mark of a good soldier is the abilaty to fire three rounds a minute in any weather we don't use muskets we use rifles.
I will just go and find that Geen Jacket and shako Bugler sound stand too
wheres that torch[:D]
I think the comonwealth forces use more modern weopons and methods these days
Still have the remenants of a Napoleonic Anglo Allied Army in the book case never did
get round to doing the US army of 1812.
We got beat in that one too.[B)]
Back to trains as i said it all comes down to what your used too
does any one manufacture period millitary figures that would be suitable for a garden railway
regards John

[tangerine-jack]

You got that wraped up tight, John! Is that how the Commonweath Forces still do it? You forgot the "pray it's not raining" command! Well, time to put on my wool jacket and tri-corner hat, I think I see a redcoat! Somebody fife and drum me into the battle please! Wait, is that a Brown Bess I see leaking oil everywhere? Maybe it's a Napoleon 12 pounder. Wish I could see, my Lucas torch isn't working.................[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Capt Carrales
Now how did that drill go Ah yes bite off the ball prime the pan powder down
the barrell spit in the ball ram it aim Fire and dot forget to put the ram rod back in its hoops fire it at the enemy and I will have to ask you to go and get it.
Where are Sharpe and Harper When you need them!!
FORM SQUARE FIX (Pause for effect) BAYONETS!!! FRONT RANK KNEEL.
Nine oclock Gentlemen BAGGAGE TO THE REAR[:D]
Must be reading to many Bernard Cornwell Books[:D]
regards John

[Anonymous]

Ah, yes, the Battle of Yorktown of 1781. Now lets not rattle our British Friends too much, they did dominate the world for some 200 years.

I weap for American passenger service, I think it dies of apathy. U.S. Frieght is begining to show signs of age. Much of the Rolling stock is in horrible shape. I've seen pictures of "short lines" and "economical" class II lines of the early and mid-20th century and there was, albiet some weathering, a measure of pride in Locomotives, Coaches and Rollingstock. I miss cabooses the most. The Texas Mexican Railway was the last carrier I saw using a caboose. Not red, but green and orange. Now the Texas Mexican has no cabooses, or locomotives for that matter. They, the locomotives, are all KCS grey!

I think I would have more of a flare for European Railways if I lived them or amoung them. I like the Canadian (Canadien, si vous ples) things that make their way south to us due to NAFTA. The Mexican rolling stock is an abomination!

Which is easier to model, American, Aussie or European...for that matter Asiatic as well?

P.S. The day one grows-up, stops loving cartoons or pursuits of youth, is the first day they begin their trek to the BOX!

[tangerine-jack]

We may have to grow old, but we never have to grow up! I refuse!!!!!!!!!

Yes, I do miss the UK. I love the USA, don't get me wrong, but Merry Old England just speaks to my ancestral blood. I can't wait to see another Isle of Man TT race, I love the European concept of racing on real streets! Nascar? Phooey, turn right once in a while!!!

As for Thomas et al, it's great that the whole concept is getting children interested in railroads. Maybe he could go to Germany for a redesign, then on to Japan for a refit, and finaly to Kansas for a long run on a free American rail. That would be cool.

Anyway, US railroads are hands down the best in the world for frieght moving-bar none. One look at Norfolk Southern's roster will show you that. However, Europeans are orders of magnitude better at moving people. I remember riding British Rail from Glasgow to Dunoon, and from Blackpool to London on weekend trips. I found BR to be efficient and easy to use. I don't remember the cost, but it was a very economical way to travel. Amtrack pales in comparison and is in many ways an embarrasment to US railroading.

Oh yes, almost forgot. Hey kimbrit, if it wasn't for the English, we Americans wouldn't have found out how superior we are at everything. I enjoy going to Yorktown (you remember Yorktown?) every weekend and looking at the very spot where a bunch of rowdy rag-tag Yanks spanked the British Empire's hind parts. Did I mention Cowpens? FYI, the sun sets on the Empire right about in my back yard!
[swg][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][oX)]

[Anonymous]

Hi Captain Carrales
My opinion on this is it comes down to what you are used too as being recognizable as a train..
I find the UK and most Aus trains pleasing to the eye
I dont like the US ones Much Too Much Junk hanging off them I do realise with out all the junk things like brakes lights ect would not work and possably the locomotive would not move.
Thomas The Tank Engine has been around for may years and in the UK is much loved some (Well a lot of) enthusiasts however don't like him they must have forgoten what it is like to be a child and the pleasure and magic he brings to many lives
Besides all children also know every train must have a Little Red Caboose who always comes last..
Thomas looks strange with a red Caboose but children will tell you its the way it should be.
A childs bigest problem is that one day they have to grow into adults with all the prejudeses that go with it.
That must be at least 50c worth
regards John

[Anonymous]

Keep it coming gents, us Brits don't mind one little bit!! Just remember that Thomas is from the island of SODOR which, if you check your maps, is between the Isle of Man and Northwest England (Barrow in Furness). The whole system managed to keep out of the nationalisation scheme that destroyed our railways and as far as I know the fat contoller still rules supreme and he rents Thomas and friends out to the mainland preserved railways for their 'Thomas weekends'. This gives all the kids a chance to have a chat with their favourite engine.
Troy, nice tram mate. I actually live in Marton so the tram is signed up just right for me. I think T Jack is missing the UK, what do you think?
Once again guys, keep having a dig at us Brits and our railways. If it wasn't for us you yanks would still have wagon trains and you aussies would be sending freight and passengers in roo pouches.
Now, where's skippy got to...............[:-,]
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[railman]

that is interesting...why didn't the porthole windows catch on here in the US?

[Gary Crawley]

As Ian said trains in Australia are vey unique.
Mostly of US and GB design they were often built in Australia to suit our harsh conditions. Hot and dry, (long distance between water) Large ruling Grades etc.

Speaking of ruling grades an example is the branch line between Wollongong and Moss Vale NSW. (steepest standard gauge line in Australia) It is still in everday use by coal trains and a 4 day a week steam service.
The steam service is hauled by locos from 3801 limited (diesel in fire periods) and is called the "Cockatoo Run"

The most awesome experience you can have is to position yourself half way up the mountain and watch a fully laiden coal train (1000 tons plus) creep down at 5 MPH on full breaks (the squeal is deafening) at the same time 3801 (3801 is a Pacific that holds the Australian steam speed record between Newcastle and Sydney, NSW 100 MPH plus) is pulling its 8 car consist up at about the same speed (slipping all the way) sparks from the drivers, pressure valve lifting all the time as Engineer and fireman struggle to keep the beast moving.
AWESOME.

I don't care where a LOCO is built if it,s WORKING for a living (Steam, Diesel or Electric)
there's nothing better.
Remenber "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
That,s what I,m trying to re-create in my Garden Railroad. (heaven)
For our overseas friends have a look at this web site.

http://www.3801limited.com.au/

Regards
Gary

[Anonymous]

This has been a pretty good break in the lull! 27 posts in 24 hours. Ozzie trains, what characteristics do they have? I have seen that they are a bit of a mixture between American and European models. Is it envronmentally generated (i.e. the terrain effects the trains) or based on traditional models?

[Anonymous]

Here is a bit of a broadside form another country.

1/ I dislike American G scale trains as they appear grosse to me. You would be lucky to give me one; however having said that i would kill to own a maroon LGB Mogal 29192, with full digital control, smoke and full digital sound ( retail in Aus $ 2,000 plus) yes and I would pay that for one if I could get Doreen to agree. I think Mikado's are the pits just about useless to operate on a normal backyard track.

2/ Briti***rains don't do much for me either, nothing can come near an LGB DR Mallet for power qnd sheer class.

However in the real world I would like to hear from anyone about a train that will equal the mighty Australian "Ghan". It goes from Adelaide to Darwin a distance of 3000 KM in three days, pulling a comprise 3 km long. It is not a dream from the past, it is a new train on a new track crossing a continent from south to north and it has the longest straight strech of north south line in the world. Guess where the longest and second longest stretch of straight rail is, across the Nullabor Plains, thousands of kms and no trees.

So if you want to talk about real mens trains think about the Ghan.

It has passenger carriages as well, and you can party all the way if you like as well.


Rgds


Thunder from Down Under.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack
, Sir Lucas is indeed the Lord of darkness[X-)]

YOU SAID IT BROTHER! I restored a 75 MG Midget only 28,000 on the clock
( Odometer) It was the first year for them to use a electronic distributor, needless to say it has a 74 or older points type to keep it running, I spent more time fixing electrical than doing the body and paint!

European locos, their intresting.

Prime example of fixing up british stuff to appeal to americans AC Cobra need I say more[:D]. Cool british AC sports car body big detroit Iron to power it.

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by John Neely Bryan

Would an HO gauge outdoor railway be practical, considering weather,etc. conditions on the track ?

John


Welcome to the forum.[8D]

This topic should be reposted as a new topic in its own right and not buried in another thread like this. I say this so you get the most readership and the most responces.[:D]

Please repost it as its own topic and you'll get some answers, short answer, yes it can be done but it has its own very special issues....[;)]

[Anonymous]

Would an HO gauge outdoor railway be practical, considering weather,etc. conditions on the track ?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chestnut226

Capt., that's the real thing... 1:1,... 12 inches to the foot. It was brought over unassembled from France and put together in the Altoona shops of the PRR. It was an example of the DeGlenn steam compounding system. Hope that clarifies it.

Regards,
Bill

Yes, Yes...[:D]I know it is 1:1, but the tender looks as if it might not be a match to the loco. The tender looks more, "frontier/industrial" American.

[tangerine-jack]

Hey, all, just kidding about the transatlantic jabs, OK? Only trying to "spark it up". I lived in the UK for several years and I like it a lot. I might even retire to Ireland or Wales. Please don't take me seriously! I don’t intend to demean or minimalize our European cousins’ contributions to railroading or culture in general. If not for the bravery of a certain British soldier, I may not be here today. Besides, if we can’t laugh at ourselves, then we will be laughed at by a total stranger…………….

I think the big difference between New and Old world engineering is tradition. We here in the US have always had a love affair with powerful machines, just look at 2004 ‘Vett, is that really necessary? We got huge locos with a gazillion horsepower pulling hundreds of cars thousands of miles with nary a sweat. We produced the Hemi and the Space Shuttle, Big Boy articulated locos and plasma TVs. American traditions are bigger and more power, at lower cost and greater reliability. Europeans would rather put a curly-queue on some sheet metal as opposed to making the thing more powerful. Different philosophies, neither is right or wrong. I like the European designs, sure they have a lot to be desired in our eyes, but I like them nonetheless. Again, don't take me too seriously, OK?[oX)]

[Anonymous]

Capt., that's the real thing... 1:1,... 12 inches to the foot. It was brought over unassembled from France and put together in the Altoona shops of the PRR. It was an example of the DeGlenn steam compounding system. Hope that clarifies it.

Regards,
Bill

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chestnut226


This is one that should make everyone happy. Dubbed the "French Aristocrat" by crews, it was being tested by the Pennsylvania Railroad. Imported in kit form, it operated on the Atlantic City run of the West Jersey & Seashore Railroad, a PRR subsidiary, in 1904.

Regards,
Bill C.
South Jersey

Say, that is nice! The only thing that I find "odd" is the cab and the siderods, but I could live with it. Nice shine, is the coal tender also part of it (do they come as one) or is it of another model?

[Anonymous]

This is one that should make everyone happy. Dubbed the "French Aristocrat" by crews, it was being tested by the Pennsylvania Railroad. Imported in kit form, it operated on the Atlantic City run of the West Jersey & Seashore Railroad, a PRR subsidiary, in 1904.

Regards,
Bill C.
South Jersey

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

I have the opportunity of seeing Norfolk Southern coal drags daily, usually at peak traffic hours and most often with 3 or 4 high end diesels pulling 200+ coal cars, Awesome to behold? yes, massive horse power?without a doubt as the earth literaly shakes with the might of Fortune 500, and yes even fully loaded the acceleration is unbelievable, but I'm bored with it. I like what I can't get to see every day, character (or is it caricature?)!

I'm sure that Thomas is more than capable of pulling one or two cars for his friends, but what would be his hurry? He lives in the UK and can only go so far before ending up in the ocean, and besides, it's probably raining and gloomy anyway. Not to mention his lack of any real traction from all the years of oil spewing onto the rails from his fine Old World crafted components, not that he could see anyway as his Lucas headlight is burned out or shorted. What would he do when he got to his destination, eat fine world famous British cuisine? Most likely he would end up in the Villiage being asked for information as his board number was changed to #6.

That enough controversy? Come on, I'm on a roll! Bring it on![oX)]

Since I have never ventured to Brittania would some one of knowledge please let me know, is Thomas the Tank Engine an fair picture of British Railroading? What is the main difference in these "old world" technologies and those operation in America?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

OK, kimbrit, now I used to live in Glasgow and Blackpool and I know dang well that any noise you hear from a British loco is the sound of it's parts falling off. You guys don't make telvisions or watches because you can't figure out how to make them leak oil!!!!! On that subject, I am also a huge Dr. Who fan as well, but what's up with those cheap (even for the Chinese) special effects? Can anybody seriously be scared by a sock puppet? BTW- Peri is hot!

(just kidding! no hate mail please!!!)[oX)][(-D]

Lets keep the British out of the flinging and slinging. Everything in Great Britain is somehow different from its American counterpart, I think that is by design. The U.S. went out of its way to make differences in culture. But I believe that it was an English Statesman who once said... "Our culture, I'm affraid, is unalterable...," It was a lie!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by kimbrit

Hi guys, I have always loved American railroads. But Thomas the tank? do you mean that American railroads don't talk??!! Every Brit kid has been brought up with Thomas for years, it's an institution. The majority of our preserved railways have Thomas weekends and if you listen carefully you can hear them all talking to each other. Honest!![;)]
Chers,
Kim
[tup]

I like Thomas the Tank, it reminds me of one of those old "Little Golden Books" I used to read as a kid. There was one called "Pano the Train" that, I think, was about a train in Greece that raced it's caboose down a hill. Anyone remember or heard of this?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tangerine-jack

I must break with my countrymen and vote for European trains. I say this because the Euros have what I call "character". They look like toy trains running through Swiss Alps etc. and have a touch of whimsey (dare I say "Disney"). Not to say that they are not at all hard working and functional, just nicer to look at than our US, no frills equipment. Perhaps it is the familiarity of seeing US trains daily that make the Euros more apealing. [oX)]

I know people who serious have issues with the first part of what you mention, many people like the "industrial" look of the "American Railroad." Sometimes even with in American Railroads. My brother dislikes the 19th century decorative locomotives in favor of latter steam that was all black paint and spartan.

The "no frills" aspect might be due to the larger distances of empty space and flat prarie that make up so much of our nations rail lines. The frontier, a knod to Fredrick Jackson Turner, effected the culture of railroading, thus functional gave way to more practical.

[Anonymous]

I'm not going to even start on this one
Sod the Briti***rains.Click on the link below for a beautiful piece of engineering from 1939.
Kim,you'll like this one.This is a recent picture of my Dads tram after it's restoration.
[code]http://members.lycos.co.uk/troybetts/hpbimg/Blackpool+11.jpg[/code]
Should go back into service at the museum next year.
Troy

[tangerine-jack]

I have the opportunity of seeing Norfolk Southern coal drags daily, usually at peak traffic hours and most often with 3 or 4 high end diesels pulling 200+ coal cars, Awesome to behold? yes, massive horse power?without a doubt as the earth literaly shakes with the might of Fortune 500, and yes even fully loaded the acceleration is unbelievable, but I'm bored with it. I like what I can't get to see every day, character (or is it caricature?)!

I'm sure that Thomas is more than capable of pulling one or two cars for his friends, but what would be his hurry? He lives in the UK and can only go so far before ending up in the ocean, and besides, it's probably raining and gloomy anyway. Not to mention his lack of any real traction from all the years of oil spewing onto the rails from his fine Old World crafted components, not that he could see anyway as his Lucas headlight is burned out or shorted. What would he do when he got to his destination, eat fine world famous British cuisine? Most likely he would end up in the Villiage being asked for information as his board number was changed to #6.

That enough controversy? Come on, I'm on a roll! Bring it on![oX)]

[bman36]

Hey guys,
Personally I favour North American iron. I recall lotsa' years back sitting at a crossing here in the city waiting for a westbound freight to head out. The gates were down and traffic was piled up behind me. (They have long since built an underpass) I had a close view with maybe 3 cars in front of me. I don't recall what the locos were but there were four big diesels. The train was very slowly inching ahead and was not quite at the crossing. My assumption was the engineer was wanting to get the whole train moving first based on what happened next. It was a hot summer day and I had shut the engine off after idling for a few minutes. Windows were wide open so I could listen. Once there was no more banging from the couplers tightening up I could see the grin on the brakeman's face. At that moment the engineer stabbed the throttle wide open and all four diesels began to thunder forward. Exhaust shot skyward and the roar filled the calm of the afternoon. My heart raced and I nearly came unglued as the train shot forward. YOU CAN"T BEAT GOOD OLD FASHOINED NORTH AMERICAN HORSEPOWER!!! Never since then have I seen a train accelerate that quickly. Was the engineer a bit of a nut??? Probably. I bet his adrenalin was keeping time with mine. The annoyance of being held up in traffic that day was long gone. This was a fine day. This also goes back a few years since there was a caboose on the train. By the time it passed and the gates went up that train was well over 65 miles an hour. Simply put...that was awesome. Never have I seen Thomas do that...and my kids have watched nearly all of them. Later eh...Brian. [:D][:D][:D]

[vsmith]

I'm OK with Fish-n-chips, but havent had decent Indian food since my last visit to London.

[tangerine-jack]

I've owned several Brit bikes (http://www.virginiasonsofgodmc.org/vabeachindex1.htm) and I agree that yes, Sir Lucas is indeed the Lord of Darkness. I don't understand Brit engineering, the designs are absolutely brilliant, simple and elegant, yet they have the villiage idiot make the blinkin' thing and the parts don't fit without a hammerwrench. What's up with the Whitworth threads? Metric not good enough then?

I still remember Basil, Blue Peter, Space 1999, UFO, Cpt Scarlet, Thunderbirds are Go, Eastenders, Upstairs Downstairs and Z-Cars. I think all those shows had a monthly budget of around 50p, but well written and fun to watch. If the sock-puppets don't scare you, then maybe an annoying squeaky voiced robot thingy with no arms and a xenophobic complex might, if it could get up the stairs! (Remebrance of the Daleks notwithstanding!!)

As for having sand in my veins, no, but I think I have some in my shorts! Core, 'avent 'ad a decent fish 'n chip since leavin' UK.[oX)]

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by grandpopswalt



But in defense of things British, I own an 86 Jaguar XJ6 and consider it the most beautiful auto ever made.
Walt

Sorry Walt but THAT distinction has already been claimed by the Bugatti Type 35. [;)]

[vsmith]

Well it depends, BRITI***rains are definetly gorgeous, for proof pop in any Harry Potter cassette and check out the consist used for the Hogswart Express. Other European locomotives were for decades pretty ugly, though I have always had a soft spot for German steam engines. But for shear impressablity and power, its US hands down. THE most impressionable RR moment I have is having UP 844 blast past me 10 feet away at 50 mph racing up Cajon Canyon. Steam, Smoke, whistle blaring, feeling the heat as it ROARED by...Big engines make a Big impression....

[Curmudgeon]

Brit locos are certainly different.
Other than the parts falling off and leaking (more on that in a moment) they hide all the piping under jackets, and even go so far as to put bicycle fenders over the drivers, and roofless cabs with "spectacle plates".
Plus they "drive" from the wrong side.
Then, you'd never catch them sounding like 4449, either.
Of course you've got the FroXs with their half-aXXed numbering system......our 2-8-2 would be called a 1-4-1......

As far as leaking (I said there would be more)......
I haven't run into a bigger bunch of double-speak folks since the Convention in Boston.

Gotta ban Ni-Cads, as the can pollute the earth!
So what do you read in the Brit train mags?
Keep your outdoor wood from rotting and control your weeds.....by trailing crankcase drippings on your wood and along the fenceline.

And this from the folks who brought us Lucas Electrics.....and the Cormorant Helicopters in Canada, and the "new" Canadian submarines....
Can't forget the Comet, either.

British Steam......favorite of cartoonists because of lack of detail.
I figure that's why there's a bunch of Model Railroaders on the island...not much detail to model.

Can you imagine of of the Brit MMR's trying to scratchbuild a Big-Boy?

(Now that I've got you all in a tither, I'll put the smiley face).

TOC

[grandpopswalt]

I agree with Jack. Euro steam trains are more interesting looking than American. They're colorfully painted and yes, they do seem to have more character. But I love my US prototypes! I've visited dozens of steam train museum lines and have grown very familiar with them. The old brain says "now THAT"S what a steam train looks like!"

But in defense of things British, I own an 86 Jaguar XJ6 and consider it the most beautiful auto ever made. I absolutely love this car dispite the fact that I have to put in more oil than gas to keep it running. And how about those Lucas electrics? What in the world were they thinking about? The mechanical design was obviously done with an eye toward providing future generations of mechanics with almost unlimited employment. Just kidding. The car is a delight.

Walt

[Anonymous]

I guess I am new school cause I can still feel the times when any of the GPs rushed passed me and what feeling I felt.
As for steam all I can do is watch on TV because I am abit home bound because of my illness[V]

Thomas the Tankengine
Barney
Homies
and a bunch of others I don't pay any mind to

[Anonymous]

T Jack,
If you've lived in Blackpool that almost makes you a fellow seasider with sand in yer veins!! Our gas televisions are the best in the world and our watches are so good there's only us can understand them - remember we used to calculate everything in 12's. 12 inches to the foot, 12 pennies to the shilling and 12 hour markings on a watch face. It's natural for us mate!! Don't tell Thomas that his parts are falling off!!! His whistle will go all squeaky!! Now for the old Doctor Who joke about who's that?, well it's Doctor Who, who?, Doctor Who, who?....................fall about laughing. Nothing wrong with cheap special effects either, I've still got a loco with some fitted!! and if that sock puppet has cheap special effects and it's doing a Rod Hull/Emu to you then you're in serious s**t mate!!
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]

[tangerine-jack]

OK, kimbrit, now I used to live in Glasgow and Blackpool and I know dang well that any noise you hear from a British loco is the sound of it's parts falling off. You guys don't make telvisions or watches because you can't figure out how to make them leak oil!!!!! On that subject, I am also a huge Dr. Who fan as well, but what's up with those cheap (even for the Chinese) special effects? Can anybody seriously be scared by a sock puppet? BTW- Peri is hot!

(just kidding! no hate mail please!!!)[oX)][(-D]

[Anonymous]

Hi guys, I have always loved American railroads. But Thomas the tank? do you mean that American railroads don't talk??!! Every Brit kid has been brought up with Thomas for years, it's an institution. The majority of our preserved railways have Thomas weekends and if you listen carefully you can hear them all talking to each other. Honest!![;)]
Chers,
Kim
[tup]

[tangerine-jack]

I must break with my countrymen and vote for European trains. I say this because the Euros have what I call "character". They look like toy trains running through Swiss Alps etc. and have a touch of whimsey (dare I say "Disney"). Not to say that they are not at all hard working and functional, just nicer to look at than our US, no frills equipment. Perhaps it is the familiarity of seeing US trains daily that make the Euros more apealing. [oX)]