So after four years of having a railroad, my brother and I finally stepped up to get RC so we could run trains. Luckly, one of our local friends puts together systems and he was very nice in giving us a new system. I am disabled in electronics but I was able to get the system installed. For a battery, I went the quickest and easiest way and got a half pound, 12v lead-acid battery. This worked OK but it is way too heavy and tonight I tried running trains in the dark and when I plugged the battery in, I accidentally switched the terminals and almost literally blew up the whole system even with a fuse installed. I am getting the RC fixed so i figured it was time for new batteries. My question is: what battery(ies) are light weight, provide enough voltage, have a long run time, LOW COST, and safe. Our trains look much better on the railroad than on the shelf where they have been for the past five years. Your advice is greatly appreciated.
Wellll.....I used to do this stuff....for 20 years I did it.
I refused to use trail cars as primary battery source. I did Bachmann Climaxes all on-board, radio/battery/sound and speaker, newer Porters, all the stuff you couldn't do.
NiCads are far and away the most forgiving battery technology for the given weight.
NiMH have twice the charge density for a given size.
I use some NiCads in my locos, still, and the rest are NiMH.
I refused in business to use 787's, and still don't even want them in my shed on operating sessions.
If they're not 787's they're ELT's, and either one, I don't have time for.
Hard wired, dedicated charge jack, dedicated hard wired power switch, and a fuse protection.
Eliminates mis-connecting batteries in the dark.
TOC
What TOC is getting at in his own inimitable style is, I think, "don't use Lithium chemistry batteries".
Now, I also use fused NiMH batteries (the "long lasting" type which don't self discharge as much when not used) and have had plenty of good experience with them; NiCds have memory issues which I can do without.. However, I've never tried either LiPo or LiIon; they may be fine although there have been some horror stories around charging, fires etc which TOC alludes to. OTH, there seem to be plenty of people on MLS, LSC and GSC who use them with no trouble.
But I'll stick with niMH - it's what I'm used to.
Steve
Thanks for the advise! It sounds like the NiMH are the way to go. Do they explode? Can someone post a link to where I could get them reasonably priced?
Thanks
NiMh are acceptable but be warned that AA size cells do not like to be charged or discharged too quickly.Sub C work well but like all NiMh batteries, they self discharge at a prodigious rate. Which is why there are now Hybrid Alkaline - NiMh AA batteries being sold. Mainly for cameras.
BTW, every self discharge counts in the life span of the batteries.
NiCd can get a (so called) memory which can be avoided by being careful charging using a smart charger.. The "memory" can be broken and the NiCd cells resurrected..
NiCd last about 1,000 recharges, NiMh a maximum of 500.I had a pack of NiMH AAA cells explode once. It was my fault. I accidentally set the charge rate way too high.I have used Li-Ion successfully. Never used Li-Po. They musy be charged in a ceramic container or one of the Li-Po safe charger bags. Bit awkward to remove batteries from some locos.
Best wishes,Tony Walsham (Remote Control Systems) http://www.rcs-rc.comModern technology. Old fashioned reliability.
TonyWalsham I have used Li-Ion successfully. Never used Li-Po. They musy be charged in a ceramic container or one of the Li-Po safe charger bags. Bit awkward to remove batteries from some locos.
I have used Li-Ion successfully. Never used Li-Po. They musy be charged in a ceramic container or one of the Li-Po safe charger bags. Bit awkward to remove batteries from some locos.
There are plenty of users who know more about batteries than I do, but, as I understand it Lithium Prismatic batteries are actually Li-Ion in a different shape and can be charged without monitoring each cell during charging.
Li-Po batteries are also usually flat packs assembled into usable shapes. Each individual cell must be monitored by the charger during charging.Having to remove Li-Po cells from a model for charging in ceramic containers or Li-Po safe bags is common and highly recommended by Li-Po makers. Otherwise explosions and fires have been known to occur.
Tony's comment about not being able to do high current charging needs to be taken in context; the recommendation is that NiMH not be charge at above 0.5 C, and preferrably lower, so your charge will take at least two hours and possibly more. But that still allows you to charge a 2000 mAH battery at 1A, although I personally would not do that; I tend to charge at about 500 mA ; and with most batteries in the 2000-2500 maH (which gives at least two, and up to three hours continuous running for an Annie for example) the charge then takes a maximum of about 4 hours and usually much less. The advice is always the slower the charge the better (within reason, you shouldn't really go below 0.1C)
I'm quite happy to charge NiMH overnight although I don't charge them when no one is home; but with a couple of chargers I can usually recover from an operating session in the time between parking the trains and going to bed. I don't know what the "ridiculous" charging rate Tony used to cause an interesting event with this chemistry, but suspect it was probably above 5 amps.
The Bachmann "Annie" tender has enough room for SubC batteries, whereas the mogul is much smaller and you will need to use AA size batteries.When choosing AA cells I recommend using the LSD hybrid cells made by Sanyo etc. The Sanyo brand is Eneloop. These are hybrid NiMH and Alkaline, come fully charged and are guaranteed to hold 85% charge for one year.
Size is not an issue because we have a battery boxcar. Which would you choose? Are these NiMh?
Are what NiMh?
The batteries you mentioned in your last post.
I referred to two sizes of batteries.
1. SubC
2. AA size.
Which size cell?
You have now heard a number of very complete recommendations for the ni-mh batteries. I have been using li-ion batteries for 4 years now and love them. I carry all of my batteries in trailing cars so I can easily switch them out when one goes dead on me.
Li-ion have roughly twice the capacity of ni-mh batteries. I have used both Aristo batteries and am now transitioning to Cordless Renovations batteries. I am careful to use only a charger that is designed for these batteries, and have had no problems with them.
Ed
I've also been using Li-Ion batteries, and would never go back to any of the older battery technologies. While I have the utmost respect for Dave, I think he's being far too conservative when it comes to the safety of battery technologies. If you've got a cell phone, you've got a Li-Ion battery right next to your hip, and very likely a charger plugged into the wall next to your bed. Laptop? Same thing. Camera? Most likely the same thing. They're pretty much the standard battery technology for consumer electronics these days. I use the Li-Ion battery packs and chargers from www.all-battery.com. The packs are PC-board protected from over-charging and over-discharging, and the chargers are made specifically for those batteries.
I like the Li-Ion technology for a number of reasons. First is size. I can get 3 - 4 hours run time out of a battery pack that's all of 3" x 3" x 3/4". Packs of this capacity come in other cell arrangements as well, allowing a great deal of flexibility when it comes to installing them in locomotives. Second, they hold their charge while sitting on the shelf. I can charge a battery in April, not run the loco until August, and still have very nearly a full charge on the battery. That's a huge advantage over NiMH and NiCd, particularly NiMH which seemed to self discharge within a week. It's nice being able to just grab a locomotive and know it's going to run. Prior to going to Li-Ion technology, I'd have to charge the batteries the night before if I thought I might run the next day. Kinda puts the cold water on spontaneous operating sessions if you have to do that.
Later,
K
Thanks for all the advice! Well it sounds like everyone uses something different but Li-Ion sounds like they'll work just fine. I just went to www.all-battery.com but I am skeptical as to where I go? Would it be possible to get another link that goes directly to the Li-Ion batteries?
Thanks,
Patrick
Garden Railways magazine, December 2012 issue, beginning on Page 48, has an article on constructing your own Li-Ion battery packs. Using the links provided in that article, I was able to locate batteries in China with built-in protective circuitry, and battery holders that allow various configurations to fit most installs.
A Smart Charger is a good investment for Li-Ion batteries, even if they do have their own protective circuitry.
Has anyone here looked into lithium ion cordless tool batteries? They're available in 12, 18, or 20 volts, they've got overcharge/overuse protection circuitry on board, and they're not ridiculously expensive.
I'm leaning toward the ridgid 18v batteries. They're widely available, they only have four connections (whereas the makita 18v has nine), and they'll fit nicely in a tender. Hook them up to a 4-pin female mini XLR connector, bury it in the bottom of the tender, and solder the matching male plug onto a dedicated ridgid charger. Boom.
I haven't done any of this yet, of course. Does anyone see any caveats I should be aware of?
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
I use Li-ion battery's purchased from all-battery.com. They have a lot of different sizes to match just about any installation needs.
The size that works best for my needs is the following:
http://www.all-battery.com/li-ion18650148v6600mahrechargeablebatterypackwithpcbprotection.aspx
I use battery cars, so have plenty of room for the installation.
Regards,
Mark
M. Gilger - President and Chief Engineer MM&G web
Web Site: http://mmg-garden-rr.webs.com/
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