Landscape Lighting

[bman36]

Hey everyone,
OK...need your help here. Bought a set of 20 landscape lights for the perimeter of my layout. Did all the necessary wiring etc. and had them all ready to go. These are not solar but hard wire units. Anyways...waited until night to show the family my accomplishment for the day. So I plug them in with my wife and daughter watching. Of 8 lights only the first 4 light up! Very impressive...NOT! Checked the instructions...did what I was supposed to. The only mention of this problem is "Voltage Drop". Their suggestion is to use heavier wire. It comes with 16ga. direct bury stranded wire. So correct me if I'm wrong but...why on earth would you put 16ga. wire in the box if it is inadequate??? To top it off I only used 8 of the 20 lights in the set!!! All the lights use crimp connectors which I don't think helps. Should I maybe solder all the connections instead? Gotta' fix this. I don't feel like ripping out the whole deal and taking it back. Ideas? Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like you have a break in the circuit after the first four Brian.
Troy

[bman36]

QUOTE: Originally posted by troybetts

Sounds like you have a break in the circuit after the first four Brian.
Troy

Hey Troy,
I don't think so since the wire is all one piece. Each light pierces the wire where they are mounted so it is a continuous run. The lights get progressively dimmer the farther off they are. No breaks anywhere. Guess I will be soldering. Later eh...Brian.

[cacole]

The transformer that came with your lights may not be putting out enough juice or is defective. Most of these landscape light sets have a transformer that is supposed to put out 12 volts, but some do not have adequate amperage output for the number of bulbs you have connected. Before you go to the trouble of ripping everying out and soldering the connections, see if you can't find a different transformer. Do you have a power pack for your trains? Temporarily disconnect it from the track and connect the light wiring to it and see what happens. If the lights work better using your railroad power pack, then the transformer that came with the lights is the culprit. Did you bury the section of the wire where the lights crimp onto it? If your soil is moist, the wiring is shorting out in the ground. What about the end of the wire? Did you bury it with no electrical tape over the end to insulate it? There are a lot of possibilities here. It sounds like your wiring is shorted somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Bman,

I have replaced several types of lighting like this. Seeing how you don't want to take it back we need to do some shooting:
First fixture must be 10 feet from power pack. You must have at least 10 feet of cable between the first fixture and the power pack to avoid premature bulb burn-out. The cable may be buried, coiling is not recommended.
Check to make sure the end of your cable has clean cut and none of the strands of wire are touching the other side.
If you have any spliced cable off your main run make sure this splice is soldered and you have a secure connection.
Now about the lights not working. Check bulb by placing in a known good fixture. Make sure the <in my case> gray and black connectors are squeezed together as tightly as possible with your finger. Do NOT use any tool for this operation.
If the fixture will still not illuminate, squeese the legs of the gray and black connector to loosen and remove from its present location. Move up or down the cable and reconnect securely.
How many lights can you add to your system is up to the Gauge of cable.
<lets see if i can make a table on here>
Total Nominal Wattage 16- Ga Cable 14- Ga Cable 12- Ga Cable
of Transformer Max. Max. Max. Max. max. Max.
Watts Length Watts Length Watts Length
44 Watt 44 100 44 125 44 150
60 Watts 60 100 60 125 60 150
88 Watts 88 100 88 125 80 150
121 Watts 121 100 121 125 121 150
200 Watts 200 100 200 125 200 150
300 Watts 300 100 300 150 300 200


Hope that worked!
Now:
To boost light out put reduce the resistance of the cable ie: change from 16-ga to 14-ga. etc..
Anymore help needed just ask.

One thing is I try not to go back with some kits I reather not name that we have most difficult time with because the contractor placed them in.

Hope this helps Bman

[Marty Cozad]

Brian
cheap is cheap, i bet you did not pay much for them??? I bought a roll of the heavier wire back in my track power days and used it for everything. Don't remember the gauge tho. I to have soldered the wires just to "KNOW" that its together.

[bman36]

Hey guys,
Thanks for all the advice here. Marty: No, the kit was not real expensive so I guess I got what I paid for. Won't have time before Sunday or Monday to mess around again with this. Will let you guys know how I make out. Worse comes to worse it's all going back and I will just buy a solar set instead. It's clearance time for this kinda' stuff. We'll see where it goes. Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Hey bman , I picked up a 300 watt power supply last year when we did the front yard . I am using 14ga wire and have had no problems . This same unit is also powering the lites in my station and by the greenhouse . My neighbor told me I had to add up all the bulb wattages together and make sure it didn,t exceed 300 watts . I,m not no electrician but I got it to work so far so good , knock on wood . I did bury the wire and did nothing special to the wire ends . Good luck with yours !

[Anonymous]

Bman,

If you have or any one tried older solar lights and were perhaps dissatisfied, you will be surprised at the light output, styles, and features of the new ones. The old dim incandescent bulbs have been replaced with high-tech bright LEDs (light-emitting diodes), fluorescent, and halogen bulbs.
<I would stick with LEDs>
Solar-powered lights that use LED bulbs are the most efficient and provide the most hours of light at night. You would not be able to read by one, but after a sunny day, they can offer eight to ten hours of light. LEDs are most effective for accent lighting and marking pathways.

Now the brightest solar-powered lights use four- or five-watt fluorescent bulbs. At night with no other lights on, they are quite bright. The fluorescent bulbs, like LEDs, last a very long time.

Well I hope you have a better time with Solar. Good Luck!

[grandpopswalt]

Brian,

If the first four lights are uniformly bright and the last four are just not "on" then the problem is a broken wire. If it were "voltage drop" each of the last four lights would be on but might be dimmer.

What's the watt rating of each of the lamps? and what is the voltage of the lamps? I checked an ampacity chart but 16 gauge wire isn't listed. Just for reference, #14 is usually rated for 15amps and #12 is good for at least 20 amps. So let's assume that #16 is rated for 10 amps. If the lamps are rated 12 volts I'd expect that wattage would be 5 or 6 watts. At 24volts, the wattage goes up to 10 watts(assuming this is a 20 bulb string).

Again, if it were a voltage drop poblem, each lamp would be progressively dimmer, but they'd all be on.

Walt

[Anonymous]

Hi Brian,
I'll chuck my 'two penneth' in. If your lights are getting progressively dimmer then they are wired in series, like most christmas lights. To maintain equal brightness they must be wired in parallel.
Series: Live cable goes to each bulb in turn and the neutral returns from the last lamp.
Parallel: Both live and neutral go to each lamp in turn.
You don't say if they are mains or transformer voltage (I don't know what your electrical regs allow), mains would be better.
I have 4 solar lights in my garden but plan mains floods next year in the bushes. If you use mains remember to protect the cable, armoured is the only way.
Cheers,
Kim
[tup]
Remember, if it's mains and you get it wrong it's [angel]

[bman36]

Hey Guys,
Did a little checking last night. The transformer is putting out 12.2 volts steady. Yes the lights get progressively dimmer the farther away they are...so I would say it is voltage drop here. Mosquitos are downright nasty again at night so I will re check the actual connections later. The wiring is in series not parallel. Haven't checked all the wire over yet. Being new we assume it is fine. I like the idea of getting a "Tim Taylor" 300 watt transformer and lighting my whole line with it. Thanks again for all the feedback ! Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Brian, Have you thought about e-mailing the manufacture regarding your troubles?

[bman36]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carpenter matt

Brian, Have you thought about e-mailing the manufacture regarding your troubles?

Hey Matt,
Went to the web-site and went through their FAQ's section. Until I have exhausted all that first I plan to wait. They list a lot for trouble shooting. I want to be able to say "Done that" before I hit them up with my problem. Who knows...maybe it will be all OK by then. [tup] I know I sounded awfully frustrated when I first posted this but with winter closing in I hate stuff like this slowing me down. You guys have been great with suggestions. Now it's time to calmly get through this. Not worried...I'll get it working the way it should be. Well time to go run McFood out to Yorkton. Then I can sit in my hotel room tonight, read GR, and drool over all that cool stuff. Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Brian, I know what you mean by winter closing in, I've gotten little personal stuff down around the home and very little RR in. Buisness has picked up so looks like I will start my porches in the winter, once there built It's RR and landscaping time[:D]

[grandpopswalt]

Brian,

One last comment. I doubt they're wired in series (I'm assuming you only have two wires feeding the lights). If they were in series, they'd all be on (if all the bulbs were O.K.), or they'd all be off (even if only one bulb or socket was defective).

Walt

[Anonymous]

As usual i disagree with everybody, distance and wire guage have nothing to do with it. it can only be the lights themselves or the connections to them. You may have two circuits hence half lights up and half doesn't. I think you have bought a bad set and you should take them back punch the guy in the head that sold them to you and get a new set.


Rgs Ian.

PS do not punch him in the head if he is too big for you, if it was a girl type person you could make a nasty remark about her hair, that should suffice.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by iandor

As usual i disagree with everybody, distance and wire guage have nothing to do with it. it can only be the lights themselves or the connections to them. You may have two circuits hence half lights up and half doesn't. I think you have bought a bad set and you should take them back punch the guy in the head that sold them to you and get a new set.


Rgs Ian.

PS do not punch him in the head if he is too big for you, if it was a girl type person you could make a nasty remark about her hair, that should suffice.

Ian, RIGHT ON BROTHER!

[grandpopswalt]

Brian,
You can go back and punch the guy in the head just for the fun of it but not for selling you a set with broken wires. I think you do have an IR drop problem because you indicated that the lights DO get progressively dimmer the farther out they are. Take your voltmeter and check the output of the transformer. Then check the voltage again at a socket beyond the last bulb. Ideally, both readings would be the same but if they're substanially different, you have a voltage drop caused by too great a resistance in the wires.

Walt

[Anonymous]

.With all these suggestions Brians going to have to print this off, walk a round in the garden rereading posts with a flashlight[:D]

[Anonymous]

Well I been hholding some stuff I have been thinking about for mine Bman.
Fiber optics and the only cheapist roll I could find is http://www.oakridgehobbies.com/g_scale/g_90a.html but there not shielded so I would have to lay sand. <I think>
Nice site for fiber optic kits and other nice stuff http://www.fiberopticproducts.com/Kits.htm
I better buy the fiber optic kit before I really decide to light a entire city with them.

Also I have seen walk paths, landscape lighting, pond lighting and so on lighted by fiber optics.
Could this be the best way to go? One light making many lights! [?][?][?]

[Anonymous]

Brian
i had the problem with the garden lites to, the transformer was the problem not putting out enough power,the place where i bought it gave me another transformer to try, it work . ben

[bman36]

Hey everybody,
Boy o boy has this grown since my last post. Well good news my friends. The lights are working!!! Have to admit...I feel really stupid about how it was fixed...sooooo lets see who can guess what dumb thing I did based on these facts. 1) Ran three wires all along the same route. 2) All the same wire used 3) Two wires are being used for track power on two seperate loops and one for the lights. 4) Marked the one with masking tape for the lights. 5) Mosquitos were trying to do blood tests during the installation. 6) I was rushing knowing I had to pick up my kids from school. 7) I'm a guy. Guesses??? Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

I'm guess you had the power supplies backwards, train transformer to lights with the trottle set on reduced voltage. The light transformer was giving 12 volts constant to the track? Am I right? And you found out when you went to put your Shay on the track and it took off out of you hand[:0]

[bman36]

Hey Matt,
Strike one! Good guess though. Congradulations on getting 3 pretty green stars next to your name. Later eh...Brian.

[Anonymous]

Ok, how about this the track was wired into the lights causing a "draw" on the circuit?

[bman36]

That's an interesting twist! BUT strike two. One more and I won't tell. Later eh...Brian. HINT: There were three wires...one was labelled

[Anonymous]

brian
maybe you needed 4 wires 2 for train and 2 for lights ben[:D]

[Anonymous]

We really are concerned about you now Bman…..<leased the guys at my shop. they like Matt too they think he is cool> if 2 + 2 = 3 then we in bad shape! [:D]
It is ok, I have already lost all sanity. [|(] I tell people I am crazy and play with big trains. Thing is no one will believe me! [:-,]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Bluebonnet - 71

We really are concerned about you now Bman#8230;..<leased the guys at my shop. they like Matt too they think he is cool> if 2 + 2 = 3 then we in bad shape! [:D]
It is ok, I have already lost all sanity. [|(] I tell people I am crazy and play with big trains. Thing is no one will believe me! [:-,]

BB71, Two power feeds one common neutral, Kind of like 220, two 110 power feeds one ground one neutral.