OK, Hi guys. I am not new to trains but I am new to G-scale. I have been modeling HO scale for almost 10 years now. My wife and I have been talking about how to spruce up the back yard. I will post some pics but you can trust me when I say it is not a pretty sight. So I half joked that we needed a G-scale train running around the "islands" we have in the back and she agreed. This is a huge WOW moment believe me. She was still good to go with the idea even after I showed her some pricing and what not. So now that the back story is done here are my questions.
Is there anything like flex track? Or is sectional track all there is?
What kind of radii can I expect an SD40-2 or GP38-2 engine to handle with no problem.
Where is a good place for a beginner to start looking for information on how to lay track, plan and build a successful garden layout.
Massey
A Veteran, whether active duty, retired, national guard, or reserve, is someone who, at one point in his or her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount of "up to and including my life."
Welcome aboard, and welcome to "large scale" railroading!
SMassey Is there anything like flex track? Or is sectional track all there is?
Yes, there is flex track but it's a bit different than in the smaller scales. The ties and rails are separate, and you need a tool called a "rail bender" to curve the rails into the proper shapes. The ties are slipped on after the rails have been bent. You can buy the rail bender yourself, or your local club may own a bender for members to use.
SMasseyWhat kind of radii can I expect an SD40-2 or GP38-2 engine to handle with no problem.
I can't help you with that one, I only run smaller locos on my layout.
SMasseyWhere is a good place for a beginner to start looking for information on how to lay track, plan and build a successful garden layout.
Check to see if there is a local garden railway club in your area. If so, you can get a lot of help from fellow RR's, in person.
You can also get lots of info here and on other forums and websites. (Google "garden railroad" or "large scale railroading".)
Of course, Garden Railways magazine is great resource too, plus I believe they have a book or two of useful info for beginners.
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. First I have been looking around my local area for clubs and what have you. The nearest club in over 150 miles away in Portland Oregon... Yea not exactly a trip down the block, and a little too far to drive. I contacted my LHS that sells G scale equipment and asked him if he could put me in contact with people in my area that do G scale stuff but I have not heard from anyone.
I have been floating around the site a little but not a whole lot of information that I am looking for at the moment. I am not saying it is bad info but it is not answering the questions I currently have rattling around in my head.
Here is what I am thinking about doing. A simple around the planter box type layout, battery power and if I grow the layout I will prolly invest in radio control. I am looking for modern diesel power but the engine I want I cant find in G. SD70ACe, so I will go with my #2 or #3 favorite which is a SD40-2 or GP38-2 both of which are available from a couple of manufacturers. For rolling stock I am looking at a couple of 40-50" box cars or intermodal container cars and maybe a flat car for some flavor. Track I am prolly going to use brass, it seems to be the best bang for the buck as far as availablilty, durability and price.
My son already owns a New Bright G-scale Southern steam engine and a couple of cars. He got it second hand from a neighbor's grandma, but the tracks are damaged and the engine derails or flips over due to the damage. A garden layout will also allow my son to run his train rather than just have it as a model in his room. I know it is a toy engine but I should be able to convert it to battery power and a "speed control" setup in the tender.
Do any of you have links to a rail bender or do you use a device like a pipe bender? and where can I find the "flex" track at?
Hi You can get flex track on ebay, Always go for the biggest radius you can I use radius 3. and the same for turn outs Also I find brass track the best but its a personal choice. THe bigger the loco the bigger radius, so that you do not get wheel screem. Hope this helps
Age is only a state of mind, keep the mind active and enjoy life
Sectional track is very usualble as so many different diameters now exist allowing a mixing to almost any curved configuration. Flex track is really long track sections or seperate rail and tie strips that as described above, must be "bent". Train-Li sells a dual rail track bender that shapes both inner and outer rail at the same time which makes bending a heckova lot easier. Depneding on how big a layout you are contepmplating it might be worth the investment to buy one, or borrow from a local LS club, if their is one.
Track in LS is usually described in DIAMETER, not radius like the smaller scales, keep that in mind when looking at track for purchase. Good rule of thumb for engines, if it has 4 axles, 5 foot diameter or wider. 6 axles, 6.5" diameter or wider. Most large 6 axle dismals run best on 8 foot diameter track. Best practice is buy the widest track that allows you to build the layout you have in mind.
Here, Mylargescale.com, Largescalecentral.com are all great sources of information to get started. There is a Tab in the GR menu above below the title that says "New to the Hobby: START HERE", read that, read the threads here and check out the other sites, Good luck.
Have fun with your trains
Welcome Massey!
Ray mentioned that we have some beginner books. Here is a link to the GR bookstore. For a more hands-on book, I'd suggest Jack Verducci's How to Design and Build Your Garden Railroad. If you're new to miniature gardening, Nancy Norris' Guidebook is excellent (she's our horticultural editor).
Rene Schweitzer
Classic Toy Trains/Garden Railways/Model Railroader
What no-one seems to have told you is that the main problem of building and running a garden railway -is the fact that it is outside.... This may seem a strange statement to make, but in track laying you are at the perils of the weather. I am not sure where you live but I would investigate what your ground is like. Here in the sunny delights of the Peak District it is possible for a stake to move 20-30cm down slope after the rain. Thus all my 5cm sq. steel supports are over 60 to 90cm long and contact the basal rock. The track work then sits on "tanalised" timbers -good for 25 years.
The questions you have to ask yourself are more like the physical ones that a full scale railway would have to ask. Weatherproofing of timbers and metal parts is going to be the least of your problems. My track work is a mixture of Nickel Silver (SM32) and Brass (Gauge '3') The nickel silver track is on plastic sleepers and the Brass bullhead track sits in white metal chairs nailed with brass pins to wooden sleepers. To me there was no financial advantage to using Stainless Steel and the conductivity issues are not applicable as all my locos are self powered.
Study your garden and be sure that all the stuff you plant and build is in the correct place for at least 5 years. A bridge that has to fight of a clematis after 2 years is in the wrong place -as is the clematis...
As to the cornering ability of your locos I cannot help you -but if your loco conforms to the G1MRA wheel then the minimum distance is around 3m radius. This assumes it has a rigid C0-C0 bogie system.
regards
ralph
The Home of Articulated Ugliness
150 miles is not bad, what you will learn and see maybe worth it.
we used to drive 3 hours one way but lined up seeing a number of RRs while we was in the area.
Sounds like your a modern mainliner . great .
keep us posted .
Is it REAL? or Just 1:29 scale?
Long live Outdoor Model Railroading.
If you're already committed to battery power, you can save a little money with aluminum track, as long as you've got no hoofed critters wandering through your back yard.
I've got a USA GP30, it successfully navigates 5 foot radius (I think we should adopt radius as our measure, since all other model railroaders seem to use it), but the advice to go as big as the terrain allows is good. Especially if you do find an SD70, or a big articulated steam engine.
Flex track is good because it is longer -- fewer joints to come apart. If you've not started acquiring track, look for some. You should probably use clamps rather than relying on slip joiners. Outside is hard on them, in my view. I started with stainless steel joiners. They failed after the first rain storm!
Don't overthink this. None of it is rocket science, and none of it can't be redone. Get a circle of track on the ground and work the details later.
Thanks for the encouragement and also for the tips.
I have yet to purchase any track or rolling stock, I am in the beginning planning stages right now. I just started laying track for my HO scale layout and that is going to be taking a huge amount of my time for a while. I am hoping to start buying track and starting on the building next spring.
My weather here is not too bad. We get some long rainy days but the rain is usually not too heavy. Most of you have heard of Seattle, I live about 40 miles south of there. I am afraid that with the amount of rain we do get that having current through the rails is going to be troublesome at best so that is why I am planning on battery power.
Well gotta hit the hay! catch ya all laters.
I use Aristo Stainless Steel with Aristo jointers and the littel screews. But not all of us like it. Alot of fokes still use brass. I tryed it for years but never liked brass. So since you have the time I would get a new sectionof each 6 inch's or more to see what You like before going to the expence on buying somthing you don't like. Leave the track sit out side all winter untoched then in the spring you will see the differance's.
Dave
The head is gray, hands don't work , back is weak, legs give out, eyes are gone, money go's and my wife still love's Me.
Flex track can be bent with rails in the ties by using a dual rail bender.
The more you pay for this unit, the better it performs. Top of the line is the Train-Li-USA.com bender, but there are others.
Single rail benders work, but can not be used once the track is placed in service, dual benders can be used anytime to fine tune the track even years after the install as long as it floats in the roadbed.
You can get close on your first choice on locomotives. USA Trains (Charles Ro) makes a SD70MAC in 18 different railroad colors.
Don U. TCA 73-5735
The 70MAC is close but I like the flared radiators of the SD70M-2 and the SD70ACe. The cab also on the ACe is different and has a very agressive and tough look. It is going to be a while before I am able to buy enough to build my garden train so maybe while I am working on saving the money some one will build the engine I want! One can hope right?
I would like to add that you should really consider your track-you don't want to buy twice. Research the material (as already noted), and the size. Code 250 and 215 are much more prototypical even in 1:29 and 1:32 standard gauge. Some good manufacturers are at http://svrronline.com/ and http://www.llagastrack.com/ make sure you see http://www.llagastrack.com/#productinfo
Thanks for that link IRB! That is just what I have been looking for and the prices are more reasonable than what I have been finding at my LHS.
OK here is another question. There are scales in the "G" scale range that go from 1:20-1:32 with a mess in the middle. I am looking at getting a 1:29 scale engine and rolling stock. Simple conversion from my HO scale plans and the wide viarity of modern equipement that I like are the reasons. Now in the links for track in post 15 both links talk about the track scale. I thought that all "G" scale rail was the same guage between the rails?
Also what is the #1 scale about? Is that G as well or is it it's own large scale?
Thanks for putting up with the total noob questions
SMassey OK here is another question. There are scales in the "G" scale range that go from 1:20-1:32 with a mess in the middle. I am looking at getting a 1:29 scale engine and rolling stock. Simple conversion from my HO scale plans and the wide viarity of modern equipement that I like are the reasons. Now in the links for track in post 15 both links talk about the track scale. I thought that all "G" scale rail was the same guage between the rails? Also what is the #1 scale about? Is that G as well or is it it's own large scale? Thanks for putting up with the total noob questions Massey
Gauge 1 and G are one in the same gauge at 45mm. Gauge 1 is 1/32 scale and is the correct guage for that scale, unlike 1/29 where the scale gauge is like 4'-3". The only real difference is that the 1/32 guys tend to prefer code 250 rail which is lower in profile but then the 1/20 guys also like the smaller rail also.
Ok... The problem began with LGB. They used the common scale of 22.5 : 1 (which is the European SPUR II scale for running on 63.5mm gauge track) and used it on 45mm track. This give a correct gauge and scale for running metre gauge prototypes in narrow gauge.
And everyone was happy.
Aristocraft decided to built models using 1:29 scale (which is the correct scale for Gauge 2 track 51mm) running on gauge 1 track
Denton decided to build models using 1:24 scale (which is the correct scale for modelling Cape Gauge 42 inch gauge locos) on gauge 1 track
Mike Train Hut builds locos using 1:32 scale (which is the correct scale for running prototype standard gauge locos) on gauge 1 track.
This whole mish mash is now lumped together under the name "G" -which stands for Garden.
If you were to talk about G scale -there isn't one. If you were to say G gauge then you mean Gauge 1 or 45 mm gauge track. I model in 16mm scale running on 32mm track, (which is larger than any of the popular "G" termed scales -but the track is narrower ), and 1:22.6 running on 63.5mm track which is termed as Gauge '3', (the track is wider and the scale is nearly the same as that used by LGB).
There are also the odd combinations such as 16mm on 45mm track (SM45), 7/8ths inch on 45mm track (SE) and those modelling GWR broad gauge... Here in the UK the Gauge 1 Model Railway Association (G1MRA) rules supreme and if you were to mention that fact that you used 45m track work they would assume you used 1:32 scale locos on it.
This is still confusing. After a little more research I think I am going to build my garden train in "O" scale. I have ship models that are 1:48 scale already, I am building a tow boat that is the same scale and I have people and stuff that scale already. I dont like the fact that most of the O stuff is 3 rail but Atlas makes the engine I want and the cars I want in 2 rail and the prices are not much different than I pay in HO scale stuff so my train budget is not going to be messed up that badly. I still will not be building anything until next spring at the soonest but at least I can buy 2 locos and some cars for the price of the one loco I wanted in 1:29 scale.
Just make sure your buying 3 rail track thats specificly designed for use outdoors, Atlas makes UV stable track thats specificly usable outside. NEVER NEVER NEVER use standard 3 rail outside, its electrically dangerous and it will rust to uselessness in a very very short time. Good Luck
By the way, track power on stainless steel rail in the rain is fine... I often let a train run around while I am reballasting, and pour the ballast, shape it, and hit it with the hose and the train runs right through.
So, you do not have to rule out track power, and if you are going O scale, it will most likely be easier than getting batteries and electronics in these smaller locos.
Greg
Visit my site: http://www.elmassian.com - lots of tips on locos, rolling stock and more.
Click here for Greg's web site
The track I think I am going to go with is the Atlas O Nickle Silver 2 rail track. The price is not bad, about 1/4 of the price of "G" track in NS and bout 1/2 the price of aluminum "G" track. The switches are only about $20 which beats the $60+ prices I have been finding. I already have an extra DCC setup from a "mistake" purchase and it should do just fine. The "mistake" was alowing the guy behind the counter at the store to tell me that the Digitrax Super Empire Builder was the same as the Super Chief set only cheaper. I only "saved" $75 over the purchase and ended up buying the Super Chief set about 2 years later anyway. Now I have a full SEB set doing nothing. Might as well use it in the garden.
I know why Lionel used 3 rail track back when they started with the trains. It was a simple way of wiring the AC motors in the trains to be able to go forward and reverse. Why is it still so widely used today when most stuff is DC powered or DCC and neither need that middle rail?
In short(!) tradition... 'O" gauge locos are still made with 3 rail pick up here in the UK Messrs Bassett Lowke being a prime example. This simplified the problem of running two DC powered locos, (AC powered locos are a US feature), on the same track -or the central rail became a series of contact studs and the return was via the wheels from a pantograph pickup ski.
I don't want to knock this site, Garden Railways Magazine does a lot for the hobby, but a better forum sit is http://www.mylargescale.com/ Most of the stuff you need to konw is on that site somewhere. It's not that this site is a bad site, it's just that most people don't visit this site much. Aristocraft has their track on sale every spring. Febuary I think.
As much as I like MLS given that the OP wants to go with O, maybe a better site would be the Classic Toy Trains site elsewhere on this site. MLS doesn't really deal with O, 2 or 3 rail.
Dont get me wrong guys the main reason for choosing O is the cost. I can handle not being able to get an SD70M-2 or SD70ACe, There are other engines I like that are available in 1:29 scale. I am budget limited at the moment and paying over $40 for 3 feet of track is out of the budget right now. The layout I want to build will be about 200' ish and that is a couple thousand in track... I figure that I can build the O scale in the same location for about 2/3 the cost including the engine and rolling stock. I already have around $5000 or more invested in my HO scale trains! and I am not retiring those anytime soon. I am not ruling out the 1:29 but right now the cards are saying 1:48
Keep Us updated with your progess, Photo's please. Welcome to the world of playing in the dirt. BTW If I had to start from scatch I would go with " O" scale two rail .....
SMassey Dont get me wrong guys the main reason for choosing O is the cost. I can handle not being able to get an SD70M-2 or SD70ACe, There are other engines I like that are available in 1:29 scale. I am budget limited at the moment and paying over $40 for 3 feet of track is out of the budget right now. The layout I want to build will be about 200' ish and that is a couple thousand in track... I figure that I can build the O scale in the same location for about 2/3 the cost including the engine and rolling stock. I already have around $5000 or more invested in my HO scale trains! and I am not retiring those anytime soon. I am not ruling out the 1:29 but right now the cards are saying 1:48 Massey
In "G Gauge" you can see the detail without your glasses!
The rails in "G Gauge" all mate and are the same gauge, the ties may look different with different brands. Real railroads mix and match ties anyway.
Aristo-Craft estimates only about 30,000 people are in "G Gauge" making a small market, this tends to drive up the per unit price. As for track, I started and have stuck with Brass and track power. When I need track, I first check "E Bay", it always cleans up just fine and the price is right.
As for mixing scales --- on the left MTH 1/32nd Dash8 --- on the right Aristo 1/29th RS3 with Bachmann Hoppers.
Well then -if the costs are the main problem then could I suggest you opt for 16mm scale on 32mm track? This will allow you to have large narrow gauge locos and rolling stock very cheaply made on 32mm track and allow you to use normal scale 'O" 1:43 scale locos on it as well. I use 32mm and 63.5mm track work -this enables me to run "O" (1:43) , SM32 (1:19.1), Gauge '3' (1:22.6) and 2.5 inch gauge (1:12) locos.
16mm is almost the de facto scratch builder scale and I was able to build my layout on a rolling budget of £10 per week -now that I am mainly building Gauge '3' locos I have increased the budget to £15 per week...
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