Greetings everyone.
This is my 1st post here, so please be gentle.
I'm a scale model builder/fabricator by trade, and I have been throwing a few ideas around in my head for a while now. I've started to put pen to paper now, and have realized, I am getting my self in allot of trouble I think.
I have always loved the sleek design of the Japanese bullet trains, and have been thinking about building a BIG replica. The largest version of this train available is "O" gauge. It's a very well built, working brass train, that is available in Japan. After looking into importing a copy, I was quoted $32,000 to have the set shipped to me. BUT.. only 4 of the 12 unique cars are available so far, and I would have to wait till later this year, or possibly next year the other 8 cars to be produced. Needless to say, the price itself turned me off.
So here I am, back at the drawing board, thinking BIGGER IS BETTER !!I have the skills, abilities, to build this train in almost any scale.Right now, I am still trying to decide...... 1:27 (scaled the the wheel diameter)1:29 (more standard for scale)1:33.3 (scaled to the 45mm track width, to = the Japanese truck width)
1:33.3 would be "G-Gauge" scaled to what a real "G Scale" would be, but he train will be quite a bit smaller, only 41 feet long, as where 1:27 it would be 59 feet long. Either way, it's going to be BIG !!!
Ok, here's my million dollar question.... Do any of you guys think that there would be anyone interested in buying a copy of this train if and when we got it done? I am trying to justify the cost that will go into making this set, because I plan on making a custom profile aluminum extrusion, to get the body perfect, and as straight as possible. The up front costs on making a profile like this will be in the thousands, but I would also have enough to build 4-5 sets when I was done. Plus, the labor would be very minimal compared to trying to form sheets into a complex small curve. So, I am trying to find out if you guys think there is any market for a G Japanese bullet train of this size.
Thanks for any help and advice.
James
Check out some of the work I have done over the years.http://www.model-displays.comhttp://www.radicalrouting.comhttp://www.thepuzzlebox.com
Here's a quick link (reference material) to the $32,000 brass version, (that I will NOT be buying) http://www.radicalrouting.com/500
Pic if the real thing.
James,
G'day and welcome to our community.
I assume from the scale that the Japanese gauge is 5 feet. If you are going to expend thousands of dollars and thousands of hours crafting a model, shouldn't it be close to scale? Think about it for a second. People who spend the sums of money you are considering will probably want a model which is as close to true scale as the outlay would suggest.
If you build it to 1:27 scale it will dwarf the American mainline equipment that currently exists in 1:32 scale, and that abomination, 1:29 scale.
Do the Japanese make a narrow gauge version? I doubt it.
Having said that I will never buy one. 1) because on my layout it would be out of place 2) I could never afford it and 3) the driver would be looking at the taillights of the last car most of the time!
Good luck whatever you decide. Judging by your earlier work, it will be a sight to see when you are done!
Mick
Chief Operating Officer
Northern Timber Company - Mt Beenak
The Home of Articulated Ugliness
Thanks for your reply.
I don't expect anyone here to buy into the train at all, I'm just looking for opinions from veteran G scalers, if this would be a desirable set once it's done. Either way, I am probably going to built it.I would just be nice to know if it's something others might want later, that would help cover it's expense later.
As for Japanese narrow gauges, I really don't know at all. I'd have to do some research, and see what I can find. You don't see many trains in the Zen gardens do you :)
As for actual gauge... the Japanese high speed trains are 1,435mm or 56.5" (stupid gauge) If I do the math, to get the train to scale down to the track width, I get 1:33.3 scale, which is really weird.The 1:29 version would keep the cars to about a 6' tall doorway, and keep the cars about the right size, but I would have to fudge the trucks and wheels to fit the track.What I need is a wider track to make the train to a real "scale"
I really don't know what to do. Changing the scale is a few clicks in AutoCAD for me, pretty easy. But picking the right one to start with is the hard part.
Here is a what the scales look like. You can see the actual wheels, and where they should be if the track was scaled too. http://www.carveraudio.com/Shinkansen-500/scales.jpg
More advice please.
Maybe go 1:24... double the O gauge version ?? Man that will be big though.
Thanks Ralph. The mechanics and electronics don't really scare me. I see most of that as details that can be worked out as I go. Getting the structure of the cars done is the major part to me. I know turns will be an issue. This will not be a 10' x 20' layout for sure. They would have to be large sweeping turns. I'm sure I can home up with something if someone wanted it to take smaller corners. Again, another detail for later.
I appreciate the advice. Last night I was doing a little research on Scale3. Some of those trains are amazing !!! and the best part is, the track is 2.5" A perfect match for my train if I built it to 1:22.5 You da' man Ralph.
I have really been thinking though, and I came to the conclusion, that 1:22.5 is just going to be too big of a train in the end. I mean we're talking about 60 foot long set. That's just too big (for me to do anything with).
You ever just have one of those brain farts, that you just have to make something, and there really is no real reason for it... well this is mine. It's one of those "I Gotta Have It" things. I'm really not into trains all that much, and have no idea if I would even build a layout for it. I just want to do something no one else has done.Right now, I'm really leaning towards something between 1:33.3 and 1:27. I would really prefer to stick with the G track, and make the train fit. 1:33.3 would be actual scale to the track, so... I dono. What would you do ??
It looks like, no matter what I do, something will be wrong. Either the trucks will be out of scale, the cars will be out of gauge, or the train will be a weird scale that nothing in the market will match.
damit man... there's ALWAYS something.
A quick correction to the math...
The Japanese bullet trains run on "Standard Gauge"(4' 8.5") track, so the proper scale for running on ga. 1 (45mm) track would be 1:32. (If I recall, the bullet trains are among the only trains in Japan that run on "standard gauge" track. Japanese "standard" gauge is 42".)
Note, however, in terms of comparing the Japanese bullet trains in terms of overall size to US prototypes, you must remember that the loading gauge (width and height) of US equipment is a fair amount larger than that of equipment on other continents, including the Japanese bullet trains. So, a 1:32 model of a bullet train will be dwarfed by a 1:32 model of a Southern Pacific Daylight train, simply because the Daylight is a physically larger prototype.
Personally, if you're going to spend the time and money to build a model of this, build it to the correct scale/gauge combination (i.e. 1:32mm for running on 45mm track, 1:22.5 for running on ga. 3 track, etc.) In terms of marketing it to others, I'd definitely go with ga. 1 track. The number of people doing gauge 3--especially on this side of the pond--is probably measured in dozens. The space required for running one of these to where it looks good on curves in ga. 3 is larger than most people's yards. So, you'd not only need to find someone who's doing ga. 3, but who has the railroad to accommodate. You're probably in single digits at that point. I know of one ga. 3 railroad here in the Denver area, and his railroad is definitely too small for a train like this.
Later,
K
Maybe this is a crazy thought, but here goes: What if you built it around one of the ride-on train gauges (7.5" and 7.75" I think they are). You would have to figure out the correct scale for that gauge.
The good things about this: you will have some very wide curves to run on and you would not need to build your own layout/RR-just join a local ride-on train RR club.
The bad things about this: You would need to figure out some sort of R/C system to control the train since I don't think you would want to make this a ride-on model. And this would be really big and expensive (I would think).
Good luck whatever you decide to do.
All good suggestions (except the 7" scale) you trying to bankrupt me ?? heheheThat would be just way too big to mess with for me. I DO however plan to make the train RC. I used to fly helicopters, and race 1/10 scale on-road cars.I still have a ton of 3-6-8 channel gear sitting around.I am starting to like the 1:32 scale train running on a 45mm "G" track. But how stupid will it look next to a standard G scale train ??It is the most realistic and "do-able" plan so far I think. The next step to 3G is a BIG one. And like you said, where could you ever run it... Ok, looks like 1:32 is the winner "for now" I will start scaling everything I have to that, and see what I get.
((kstrong)) You are correct, this train runs on 4-8.5" track... which is equal to the above 1435mm
Here's a nice little track gauge chart I got off Wiki.
G guage Shinkansen? Its been done in Paper, why not Styrene?
http://www.youtube.com/user/ituncle#p/a/u/1/eR9lht-jsTk
Have fun with your trains
Yeah, I talked to that YouTube guy a few times.I thought about styrene... I will probably make a mock up out of styrene or acrylic, but I want something a little more beefy in the end.One of my other hobby projects is a 13' long 1/14 RC tractor trailer. I really wanted to build a specific trailer, and scaled everything to the tractor. Here's a link to the actuators that drop the trailerhttp://www.model-displays.com/Projects/truck1/LoadKing.htm
If I go with 1/32, each car will be about 31" long. Which in my opinion is big enough for now. I can always scale things up later if someone requests it.
Well I threw together a quick skeleton model of one of the cars out of 3/16 acrylic the other night. I was impressed with the size. It was allot bigger than I expected it to be.
So, if I use 1:32 for the train scale, and it runs on G track... what would you officially call this train ?? a 1:32-scale-G-gauge ?? Kind of a 1/2 breed ??
I'm going to have to cut custom wheels I think as well. The standard G-gauge wheel are way too tall, and would cut up into the body of the cars too much.
Ok, here is my little sample. 1:32-G "Wide Gauge"Its about 4" tall 4.5" wide, and 31" long. 1/8 laser cut acrylic, with 1/8" aluminum rods to keep everything aligned. I am thinking about using .010 acetate to wrap the whole thing.I see a few things I'd do different the 2nd time around, but as-is, it's really ridged already. I'm seriously considering building the whole train this way. So far, what you see is about $10 worth of materials, and about 3 hours of work.
Who's a good source for the right kind of track ?? I'd like a 3' or 4' piece just to have laying around for photos.
Thanks for all the help and feedback so far too !!!!
Can't anything ever be easy ?!?!
I looked at his site, and (for photos anyway) I think I am going to have to make something custom.I never looked that closely at the high speed tracks before...
I don't see anything like this on that guys site for sale :)
And here's a good way to keep the population down
Toy Maker Well I threw together a quick skeleton model of one of the cars out of 3/16 acrylic the other night. I was impressed with the size. It was allot bigger than I expected it to be. So, if I use 1:32 for the train scale, and it runs on G track... what would you officially call this train ?? a 1:32-scale-G-gauge ?? Kind of a 1/2 breed ?? I'm going to have to cut custom wheels I think as well. The standard G-gauge wheel are way too tall, and would cut up into the body of the cars too much.
As you gain experience in large scale you will pick up the various scales that all use 45mm track
1/32 scale on 45mm track is called Gauge 1, and goes clear back to the 19th century. MTH makes large scale train in this scale. It is correct standard gauge represented on 45mm gauge track.
"G Gauge" is a generic term that tends to encompass everything under the large scale umbrella. Technically there is no G Gauge, it's all 45mm gauge. Where the designation does have application is in scale, where G scale is 1/22.5 or meter gauge European narrow gauge popularized by LGB.
Heres a quick blanket coverage of all the SCALES that run on 45mm GAUGE track
G scale = 1/22.5 representing meter gauge Euro narrow guage and is also close to US 1/24 3'-6" narrow gauge, but many mfrs built 3'-0" narrow gauge US models to 1/22.5 scale to be compatable with other 1/22.5 offerings.LGB was the biggest supplier, Bachmann, some USA and Aristocraft Classics line. See H scale below as well.
F scale = 1/20.3 scale, this is true scale 3'-0" US narrow gauge running on 45mm track, Bachmann and Accucraft being the biggest suppliers.
A scale = 1/29 scale representing standard gauge models but running on 45mm track, this is not a correct scale to gauge ratio, but the larger size trains look and sell better according to the mfr. Aristo and USA being the biggest suppliers.
Gauge 1 = 1/32 scale representing correct scale to gauge ratio for standard gauge trains on 45mm track. MTH, Accucraft being the biggest suppliers.
There is also H scale = 1/24 scale which is correct scale to gauge for 3'-6" narrow gauge. Kalamazoo, Delton, and HLW are the biggest source for this scale
Confusicated? Dont be, its a big pie and lots of flavors, you'll pick it up over time.
I don't think that profile will be hard to make at all. They are about 3.5" long, x 5/16" tall x 7/16" wide. I could use wood, plastic or even aluminum bar stock, 4" x 3/8" and make it in a 12 foot long profile on one of my router tables, pretty easily, then just slice them off 7/16" wide on the table saw. I think the real PITA would be screwing all the rail clips down. That mesh is easy too.. I have a great photo-etcher I use all the time. I can just draw that in AutoCAD, and send it off to them, and have it made in .020 brass or aluminum by the 18" x 24" sheet. Every one is the same looks like.
UPDATE:
Does anyone have any good links to any Japanese "1" or G gauge sites where someone might be interested in a set ??
If you have the profile, email me a copy, and I will send it off to the people I am having bid mine, and see what we can do. I have an amazing girl I use in China for allot of my custom items.
It's not a cheap process no matter what. But if you can justify the up front costs via sales, it's well worth it.
My profile is probably going to run around $4,000-6,000 as a guess right now. But I will have enough material to make more than 1 set of cars in the end.
Allot of the price depends on the initial mill run you make. 500 pounds just about costs the same as 1000 pounds. They start off with a 1000 pound billet of metal, they want to run the whole thing. It seems they charge you per billet, whether you run it all or not.
Get the Garden Railways newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month