battery vrs track power

[santa fe bill]

 I been been thinking about building a garden layout but i dont want to spend time cleaning track and from what i have that seems to a big issue . since i live in the northwest rian is a very big issue

[TonyWalsham]

Good decision.

[Marty Cozad]

I suggest before this thread gets out of hand that you do a search of the topic and also go to Mylargescale.com and see their forums on the subject.

My wife will and has always said, "I'm a much happer man after going RC/Battery."

I've saved a lot of $$ and time over the years.

 The guy in above post my live on the bottom of the world but hes alright.

[cacole]

I have used battery/RC since day one and haven't regretted it for one minute.  No matter how dirty the track gets, the trains still run, and you can have reverse loops and crossover tracks and never have to worry about switching polarity or developing shorts.  Besides that, the Arizona dirt is hard as a rock and it would have taken a Ditch Witch to bury electrical cables.

[altterrain]

I've saved a lot of $$ and time over the years.

Time maybe. Money? Ya gotta be kidding Marty! Nothing wrong with battery power. If I had lots of extra dough, I'd have all my locos wired up battery.

I run track power primarily with stainless steel track. Use Split Jaw rail clamps at joints and you'll never have an electrical issue. There is very little cleaning involved beyond removing dirt off. I can go out after not running for a few months from over the winter and hook the Aristo track cleaning car to a battery loco or a bigger diesel, run it around for a few laps and I'm all set to go. Most track cleaning is picking up twigs, leaves, stones, acorns, etc. and you still have to do that with battery power. You still have to do track maintenance.

Battery power is great but it is more expensive and complicated to start with. Pay for professional installation and it costs more. If you're only going to have a loco or two battery power may be for you. If you're going to have 20 locos to run, costs can run well over $10k to wire all those up. Trailer battery cars that can be hooked up to different locos is another option.

Other cons besides the costs - If you like running loco smoke units you probably wont be able to do that since they take a lot of juice. If you like to run long passenger trains with lights on, you'll need to wire those up separately for their own battery power. You also need to keep those batteries charged up as all battery packs lose charge (a few percent a day depending on type) just sitting.

Just a few things to consider.

-Brian 

[Marty Cozad]

This is not the place to debate, I don't like to prove people wrong. I have done the math on paper.

I have never paid more than $2.50 per ft for track.

anyway

 you can e-mail me anytime.

[altterrain]

Au contraire, mon ami, what's wrong with a bit of debate? Please, prove me wrong. The original poster asked for opinions on track versus battery power.

I'm sure there is a point where battery power may run cheaper than track power. If you're going to have a big layout with a few locos, the savings of cheap track versus battery power may pay off. If you have a modest layout and say 10 locos, track power would probably win out financially. There are far too many factors involved just to say one is less expensive than the other. For you, it may be the better option. I am currently bulding a garden railway for a client. It will be all battery/RC. It was the better option for him. For SF Bill, who knows?

Bill,

Tell us about your potential plans for your future railroad empire -

How big a layout do you plan?

Are you going to be just running trains or maybe running a more prototypical operational layout with switching yards and such?

What type and era of trains do you envision running (small old steamers? big diesels? long freight and passenger trains or small branchline consists)? 

Will you want literally all the bells and whistles you can control with RC units?

-Brian 

[Don H]

I was track power for 18 years, switched to battery. Then I asked myself why didn't I

change over long time ago.

[kstrong]

Track vs. Battery is very much akin to "Taste Great vs. Less Filling," "Ford vs. Chevy," etc. There are strong opinions on both sides, and the debate does tend to get a bit heated from time to time (hence the reluctance by some to delve headlong into the topic).

The curx of the decision comes down to how you intend to run your trains. If you're thinking lots of trains running at once with automatic this, that, and the other, then track power is going to be the way to go. Stainless steel track has been getting a good reputation in terms of not having to clean it as often as brass, so cleaning isn't necessarily the chore it used to be. (Note: I run battery, so I'm basing my statement solely on the experiences of others.)

If you plan a fairly small railroad (less than 300' of track) then running a green scotchbrite pad over the track isn't a monumental task prior to running trains, so track power is viable for that situation. I run a pad over my track before I run just to knock dirt and twigs off, so it's not necessarily accurate to say battery power means "no" track cleaning.

If you plan on collecting a rather large roster of locomotives, then the extra cost of batteries and controllers for each locomotive may get prohibitive after more than just a few locos. You are adding between $150 - $400 to the cost of each loco depending on whose system you ultimately go with. If you plan on having guests over to run trains on a regular basis, then track power will also allow you maximum flexibility in what can be run.

On the other side of the coin, battery power does allow you the flexibility to use cheaper track, which--depending on the size of your railroad--could be a significant savings up front. It also saves you the cost of rail clamps and expensive power supplies--also a significan up-front cost savings. There's also the advantages of not having to worry about wiring, conductivity, and all those other benefits mentioned above.

I've been running battery power for 24 years, and it's something that works very well for me. But I don't have a large roster of locomotives, and I only have one train running (unless there's a second engineer).

Later,

K

[Marty Cozad]

The only reason I respond to the cost factor is because some track power fans BLOWS the cost way out to the farthest extreme to prove their point. Which is wrong.

I have 17 engines and most have $5 invested to convert to battery ready. Aristo now is battery ready out of the box.

I personally am able to run 2 maybe 3 trains by myself at a time. I already had the track side TE to run track power. Thus that brakes even.

Many folks do have battery tools for around the house fix its. 

When my guest come to run they usually have RC batt locos. If we had track power they would have to have DCC cost/ set up in order to run 10 to 15 trains at a time.

 Even a block system would be a lot of work to set up.

I buy the cheapest rail I can find. (not Bachman) and no rail clamps.

I sold both of my 10 amp power packs to buy RC parts.

Any friends who want to run here I have helped for FREE to convert their locos to run either way. thus over time they to go batt/RC.

I have two locos that are self contained for traveling engines with RCS and walmart rechargeable batterys. Also used for switching.

I have resold many locos because folks knew they was converted and the demand for them was there.

So don't ever say you "have" to pay someone to covert all 20 locos. I run 3 engine lash ups with 60 car trains.

Also don't say your stuck with a battery car because steam engines have their own battery car, its called a tender.

It is cheaper to be battery /RC power than track power.

[enginear]

This is a tough one. You should decide before you get too far which way to go, track or battery? I see the benefits of both and would not dream of trashing battery users because of the benefits. I will say that track power is not as bad as some make it out to be. You must follow certain rules to provide long term, reliable power. Take your time and research both. How big will your layout be, your number of locos, etc. Once you decide you will get great advice here on the forum. In the meantime, watch out, 'cause the bullets are gonna fly. Joe

You did ask!!

[Marty Cozad]

This is simple.

I agree with Joe....track power isn't as bad based on the conditions the RR is in.

 keep it simple.

 the question is which is cheaper? so don't place all the different conditions on it. Thats where the fights are.

Track power is great, batt/RC is great.

Which meets your,,,,YOUR PERSONAL NEEDS?

And don't be saying exstreme examples to prove a point.

The day I converted to on/board batt I did not spend a dime. because in track power I had most of the compents already in use. I simply unpluged the power pack, plug in my battery charger, place the TE in a gondola car, pluged them together and off I went.

[Anonymous]

Yep that is me Marty the idiot, blocks & computer aided track type of guy!

And yeah I do want a stright main line(2) part to it. I am a sicko!!

Toad

[Marty Cozad]

See Bill

The fact is we are all friends on here and everyone knows that I think I'm right.

joke.

This afternoon I am hosting a O scale collectors club pinic. They all think I'm nuts for even being outdoors.

But this is the 6th or 7th time THEY asked to come out and show their newer club members what G is all about

These are shiny behind glass with alarm sytemes ,shelf queen train buffs.

I go to some of their open houses. Just to say, Thank you Lord I saw the light......

[Anonymous]

Well Marty, you made me LOL so hard had to come back and let yeah know!

Toad

And yeah there is planed O scale mining op. on my layout

[lownote]

It depends on what you want to do, I think. I have a smallish layout and my wife and I like to run it at dusk into night--so we like to have a lot of lights on the trains, and we also have a number of houses and accessory lights powered from the track. Battery would be a bad option for us in that sense. We have remote control in all the locos, so we have a lot of the advantages of DCC without the wiring complexity.

Cleaning a smallish track is really easy, just run a track cleaning car around. I wish I'd started with stainless rail, but it's not that big a deal to clean the brass.

Speaking personally I kind of don't like batteries. I don't like worrying about run times or the "memory effect" and I don't want a bunch of chargers and spare battery packs lying around. If you give me a choice between a consumer product that needs batteries and ne that doesn't, I generally pick the one that runs off the wall. Except cordless drills--I love those things! Till the batteries start to lose their capacity for a recharge....

I've looked into converting some locos to battery and been put off by the expense and the learning curve. But they are obviously a great solution and if I had a bigger layout I'd think pretty seriously about converting. I'm not sure that I would, but I'd think pretty hard about it. 

 

[santa fe bill]

 ok here we go my back yard perimeter 100 -75 ft i plan on a main with passing sidings on a 3ft wide by 2 ft high then 1.5 ft elevation ascent /decent (mountain territory ) on a dirt fill supported by a retaining wall going around the perimeter of yard with return loops I have been authorized by my (investment corp.aka the wife for 3.5k budget start up for railroad equipment) I plan on buying as much as can on e-bay (except locos ) at some point in future i would like expand to give the railroad a reason . one of my main concerns is weather winter can be a bad scene lots water/wind / snow ( I  live in the northwest 45 miles from the coast. as to operation i want start out with main line running (i am a proto type of a guy Ho modeler winter time ) starting out i will  run diesels  hopefully be able to afford 3 locos . era will be mid 50s tranisition to steam gp 7/9 & f units . I want a power supply that can be expandable as investment my corp i.e shareholder will alow acording to her i have to many toys. cars & trains thanks for all your imput & advice s.f . bill

[Marty Cozad]

See Bill

over time you will sale everything for this largescale stuff. Its year round. rotary snow plows, scratchbuilding, bridge building. you need winter just to get done with the stuff you don't have time for in the summer.

These are big boy toys. Its not a girly-maan thing.

[cabbage]

Wow, what I could have done with a $3,500 startup capital....

I have always used Batteries. I started out with early 1200mAh NiMh (which took days to charge!) to the 6V 4.5Ah SLA bricks that now power all my locos, (and take 90 minutes to charge). I use them because they are cheap simple devices, very rugged and dependable and I have a rolling stock of 8 of them. There are normally; 4 on trickle, 2 on fast charge and 2 running around...

I did try radio control, I even tried DCC over two way 38.4Kb radio modems running on 433 Mhz, (which is the std data half duplex networking frequency here in the EU). What I found I got the most fun out of, turned out to be 2 DPDT switches and couple of 6V relays to handle the power switching.

There are people out there who have invested huge sums of money in fan cooled multi stage power supplies which have enough copper power cable to rival a power station. But that is not for me. I like to sit, sup my mug of tea and munch my cheese doorstep, secure in the lazy knowledge that the loco is going to go around the track at a steady speed -until the batteries go flat in about 2 hours time.

By which time it probably time for another mug of tea...

regards

ralph

[altterrain]

Wow, what I could have done with a $3,500 startup capital....

By the time you put in all that raised bed and buy track (even the less expensive kind), sadly, there won't be much left.

-Brian 

[Anonymous]

Wow, what I could have done with a $3,500 startup capital....

By the time you put in all that raised bed and buy track (even the less expensive kind), sadly, there won't be much left.

-Brian 

See my brass track is up to 400.00 for what a 8' in 12 pack? The DDC was about 2,000.00 +/- and that is not including curves or rail bender, tools, split jaws, material.....oh I could eat it up quick. Note was on a 150 X 50 layout. Oh and no buildings.

SS track is best and king, all there is and you can go both ways, battery or track on it.

Toad

[enginear]

Is it safe????????????????   not too bad...... I'm just testing the waters   Still safe??

Ridge road got stainless on sale............  can I say that..........

I got only one $75 power pack (but I run AC)....... (indoors, be sides)

What, out of ammo or something (kidding),

 Just left America's Fair in Hamburg, NY and the Local Western NY Garden RR club has a nice 2 level G scale set up. Brass track, couple loops, track powered? Would make a nice layout in someone's yard. Forgot the camera again, Joe

[Marty Cozad]

you know, once your hooked, and have over $10K in it, whats a few hundred $$s??

 

[santa fe bill]

 I should say the flower bed aka right of way has been budgeted for (this is how i got the idea for the for the railroad reasoning w/the wife that i would"nt  hate building her flower bed  most likely to be done in a timely matter ) my only cost increase will be pavers . fill is free thanks to friend of mine from what i'm under standing track would be the major expense  

[enginear]

I apologize, I don't mean to get off topic, a few things just hit me like a ton of bricks. In no particular order:

Get (another) sum of money together +

Switch my engines to battery capable +

Buy a piece of land adjacent to a Marty Cozad +

Bribe Marty for trackage rights +

build my rail yard to property line and connect to MC's mainline +????

 

That's what I get for stayin' in the basement too long, Joe (I apologize Marty, I hope you found that funny, I do admire your rr greatly)

 

[calenelson]

I studied before I got started....decided battery was for me...chose the RCS brand of control...I am a very happy camper!  If I were to start over...I'd make the same choice..it works for me...very well!

as an aside..I noticed you plan to buy most of your stock on E-bay,,,,while not a horrible idea, just make sure you know what you and buying and what it is worth!  there are some deals to get on Ebay, but not everything is a "deal"...be informed!!!

If you do move forward with battery power, look into Alum. Track...

 

good luck!

cale 

[Don H]

I had a Train Engineer and a 18 volt drill so it cost me absolutely nothing to go to battery.

 I would watch buying things on e-bay some people a really gouging you on shipping. I just received four cars, shipping was $16.00 from a dealer. Some people on e-bay want $20.00 for one car.

[Marty Cozad]

Brain

thats my dream, someone to move close and play trains.

 

Don, ya old fart what do you need more cars for. I may have to drop up and mooch dinner off  you when I get my chichen grit and see how your RRs coming.

[Mike Dorsch CJ&M r.r.]

For me I use track power in the summer and have one engine (Aristo dash-9) that I convert to battery r/c for winter running. After it gets nice again here in Chicago I disconnect the battery stuff and go back to track power. I think everyone will have their own situation cuz of budget or the climate where you live but this works for ME . Anyway thats my 2 cents worth of wisdom here.

[altterrain]

Brian

thats my dream, someone to move close and play trains.

Sorry, Marty, no plans to move to the middle of nowhere Nebraska here. That's Joe's dream.

-Brian