The pro's and con's of Aristo stainless steel track vs. LGB brass track.......

[LGBtrains1963]

I want your thoughts on Aristocraft stainless steel track, the pro's and the con's of it, I have used LGB brass track for a few years but seeing it is not going to be back on the market for a few years I'm looking to other brands to fill the void.... Has anyone used PIKO yet, if so what do you think? Please post..... Thanks, Mark  

[LGBtrains1963]

by the way my track is powered to run the trains, so keep that in mind when you post.... Thanks Again, Mark

[altterrain]

I have Aristo stainless on my layout and the club uses only LGB brass so I have experience with both. My observations on each -

Aristo stainless -

Pros - very little cleaning required. After very little running for 3 months over the winter, I ran my aristo track cleaning car with a battery loco for 10 mins and I was good to go. Its also very strong and has less expansion and contraction than other metals used in rail.

Cons - those frackin' little rail joiner screws and the color. Both fixable with split jaw connectors and a bit of spray paint. Another con to some may be it only comes in the USA style standard guage tie spacing and not the Euro type.

LGB brass -

Pros - the rail joiners fit nice and tight and it ages to a nice dark brown color

Cons - limited selection of diameter available - 4', 5', 8', 13' (compared to 4', 5', 6.5', 8', 9', 10, 11.5', etc for Aristo track). Its also only comes in the Euro tie profile. Track cleaning/sanding!

Some folks swear by LGB switches. Both brands have their problems in my experience.

-Brian 

[kstrong]

The Piko track is virtually identical to LGB's, though the ties are slightly different in shape. (Note: the track geometry is NOT the same, nor do the "R1, R3," etc. refer to the same curve radii.) Without confirmation, I'd bet good money that the rail and fishplates come from the same supplier that provided for LGB. It's not cheap stuff--listing for between $9 - $12/foot. If you're already heavily invested in LGB, and want a consistent look, it's probably worth the money. Shop around for price.

I've not used the Aristo stainless stuff personally, but many of the railroads at the Phoenix convention used it, and the owners seemed to be quite pleased with it. It's harder to cut than brass, but still easily cuttable with a good cut-off wheel in a Dremel. Reports are that you don't have to clean it near as often as brass, but since I've not run power through my rails in nearly 25 years, I'm hardly the best person to speak to that aspect of it.

Later,

K

[jhsimpson62]

I have used both Aristo stainless and brass track in different railroads and wouldn't return to brass for any reason. The stainless seldom needs any cleaning other than a quick whipe to remove ballast dust kicked up by a recent rain. Using just two feeders for power to the track, I have no problems running trains on over 300 foot loop.

[Camaro1967]

I have had my layout of aristo stainless track down for four years now. I don't have to clean it, conductivity out probably 150 ft is excellent with Hillman clamps, and about all I have to do is sweep off the leaves and branches so the trains won't derail.  I cannot be happier.

Paul 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

I want your thoughts on Aristocraft stainless steel track, the pro's and the con's of it, I have used LGB brass track for a few years but seeing it is not going to be back on the market for a few years I'm looking to other brands to fill the void.... Has anyone used PIKO yet, if so what do you think? Please post..... Thanks, Mark  

 

Say Mark, 

I am Ditto, with all of the preceeding coments so far about Stainless track. It is the way to go if your line will be track powered.......

Byron C.

[DennisB]

   I have had experience with both. The bigger question is what part of the country do you live in? I have pursued this hobby both in the northern and southern areas of Ontario, Canada. Aristo doesn't do well in the north or if it receives a lot of rainfall. The moisture causes the rail joiners to rust off over time. Aristo track that is cleaned frequently with sand paper type track cleaners, begins to scratch and this causes it to collect dirt more easily. which also means that it has to be cleaned more.  Marklin/LGB has started shipping track and some have arrived in Ontario already. The company is not dropping the MTS, EPL systems or the track production. These are all seriously profitable. The prices of these items may rise, but market forces will keep it in line. I hope this has been of some help. Regards, Dennis.

[EMPIRE II LINE]

Well Mark

I droped back in here again, because it seems necessary to address your specific question.....Things tend to get a bit Clouded at times.

I have built a total of, this being my 5th layout over the past 15 years or so, here in Florida, as well as in Ohio for about 2.5 years.

Each time I have used track power, mainly because of what I choose to run and the power/amperage, necessry to run what I do run. Long lighted passenger trains. Too impractical to try and use battery power, mind you Marty Cozad (battery user) and I have had a few discussions on this matter.....battery power VS track power.

The layout in Ohio, Akron to be specific, was my third all Brass track layout (LGB and Aristo brands used) for me to have built.....So mind you, I do have ample experience with brass track in all types of Climactic conditions.

THAT SAID......I HATE TO SPEND/WASTE TIME, ALWAYS CLEANING TRACK !!!!! That is what Brass is all about.........simply put......After making the switch to stainless steel track in 2004, I for one will never return to using Brass track for my mainlines, I do however use a bit of it inside of my storage train room, to park unused rolling stock on, ONLY !!!!

 

 

So if in all honesty, everyone wants to be really honest.....for track powered layouts, stainless is the only way to go.  That is A BIG PERIOD.....Mark.. 

 

You can ask the folks at H & R trains in Tampa, FL. They too, sell a different brand of stainless track and have been using it for years on their outside layout.

This past weekend I visited a fellow Garden Railroad members home, he uses both the H & R Stores brand, as well as the Aristo stainless track, flawless running all day long.....simple as that !!!! 

No Clouds........

Byron C.       

[enginear]

The only reason I would look to something other than stainless is because of the price increase. I run indoors! I have some brass mixed with almost all Aristo's stainless track and switches. I had to clean it at first till I found the culprit. I think I had over oiled some piece of equipment. The rails had some black spots. It seemed to be rubber like. I believe that when my MTH challenger pulling a long train hit these spots the front drivers would slip. I cleaned the track. I fixed the loading on the challenger. I haven't cleaned the track since. I'm getting good adhesion now and could current through the rails.

You are probably outdoors? I can't tell you how many told me how hard it is to keep the brass rails clean. I'm not much help there, but some told me the current would not pass through the stainless well and they were wrong!!!! Everyone tells me how well their stainless holds up. So I don't know of any other con besides the price. I wonder how nickle silver outside would be?

I'm probably going to put the stainless outside someday and the brass inside if the prices keep going up. I wish they all came with rail clamps included!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[N.S.]

Well for me it came down to one question? do i want to run my trains all the time or clean my track all the time. i choose ss, don't think it was a mistake.....

[bobgrosh]

There are two big unanswered questions in this discussion:

 

ONE

Which brass rail are we are we comparing to stainless?

I've used several brands, they are VASTLY different when it comes to conductivity and cleaning. So much so that I removed several hundred feet of one brands brass rail and replaced it with another brand of brass rail.

There are thousands of brass alloys. Some brass alloys are used on circuit board contacts because it's oxide conducts.  Other brass alloys are used on door knobs because the oxide is HARD and provides a sort of golden color.

The same is true with brass rail. Some oxidizes brown and still conducts, Cleaning really only involves removing dirt, grease, pollen, etc. Some track oxidizes to a yellow or gold color. The oxide contains silicates and is a very poor conductor. It will require a strong abrasive and hard work to remove. Using an abrasive to clean it scratches the surface, increasing it's surface area and speedings up the oxidation so it has to be cleaned more often.

So, to compare brass to stainless without saying which brass you are comparing seems useless to me.

 

TWO

Dirt on the rail is not the huge culprit people make it out to be.

The real culprit is the dirt on the wheels.

(Of course the dirt got on the wheels from the rails.)

To understand this, make an apple pie.

Put a pound of pie crust on a counter, roll it out with a rolling pin. Notice how sometimes the pie dough sticks to the rolling pin, and rolls up around it? The entire rolling pin is covered with dough.

Now, try to roll the dough out to cover the entire counter top. OH! and the counter top is 300 feet long.

 If the dough sticks to the rolling pin, it will be 1/4 inch thick. The pin will never touch the counter.

 If the dough sticks to the 300 foot counter, it will be so thin and have so many holes that the rolling pin will end up touching bare counter top no matter where you put it.

THE TEFLON ROLLING PIN.

If we want to keep the dough off the rolling pin, we would use a Teflon rolling pin.

LGB and others do the same thing by putting a hard nickle surface on the wheels. This tends to keep the dirt on the rails and off the wheels.

Another way of thinking about this:

If you want to insulate a loco from the rails, how much black electrician's tape would you need to cover one rail of your entire railroad?

How much tape would you need to just wrap the pickup wheels on one side of a loco?

  

 

[altterrain]

There are two big unanswered questions in this discussion:

 

ONE

Which brass rail are we are we comparing to stainless?

I've used several brands, they are VASTLY different when it comes to conductivity and cleaning. So much so that I removed several hundred feet of one brands brass rail and replaced it with another brand of brass rail.

There are thousands of brass alloys. Some brass alloys are used on circuit board contacts because it's oxide conducts.  Other brass alloys are used on door knobs because the oxide is HARD and provides a sort of golden color.

The same is true with brass rail. Some oxidizes brown and still conducts, Cleaning really only involves removing dirt, grease, pollen, etc. Some track oxidizes to a yellow or gold color. The oxide contains silicates and is a very poor conductor. It will require a strong abrasive and hard work to remove. Using an abrasive to clean it scratches the surface, increasing it's surface area and speedings up the oxidation so it has to be cleaned more often.

So, to compare brass to stainless without saying which brass you are comparing seems useless to me.

 

TWO

Dirt on the rail is not the huge culprit people make it out to be.

The real culprit is the dirt on the wheels.

(Of course the dirt got on the wheels from the rails.)

To understand this, make an apple pie.

Put a pound of pie crust on a counter, roll it out with a rolling pin. Notice how sometimes the pie dough sticks to the rolling pin, and rolls up around it? The entire rolling pin is covered with dough.

Now, try to roll the dough out to cover the entire counter top. OH! and the counter top is 300 feet long.

 If the dough sticks to the rolling pin, it will be 1/4 inch thick. The pin will never touch the counter.

 If the dough sticks to the 300 foot counter, it will be so thin and have so many holes that the rolling pin will end up touching bare counter top no matter where you put it.

THE TEFLON ROLLING PIN.

If we want to keep the dough off the rolling pin, we would use a Teflon rolling pin.

LGB and others do the same thing by putting a hard nickle surface on the wheels. This tends to keep the dirt on the rails and off the wheels.

Another way of thinking about this:

If you want to insulate a loco from the rails, how much black electrician's tape would you need to cover one rail of your entire railroad?

How much tape would you need to just wrap the pickup wheels on one side of a loco?

  

 

Bob,

The original poster was very clear in wanting to know the Pro and Cons of Aristo stainless versus LGB brass. Your post was about as clear as mud.

-Brian 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

I wonder how nickle silver outside would be?

I'm probably going to put the stainless outside someday and the brass inside if the prices keep going up. I wish they all came with rail clamps included!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

Mark, Got Clouds again,

Well to maybe answer this question about the NAMED BRANDS (LGB), Nickel Silver plated track, I personally have no experience with it......However, I have heard, comments made, that it was a mistake in manufacturing, may have possibly led to part of their recent demise, I've heard, the Nickel Silver plating chips off, after some bit of use......so I've heard.....Can't substantiate that for sure though, only comments I've heard circulated about it.

At present, I am looking to maybe purchase just one set of their #5 switches, with the Nickel Silver plating, I have an area where only that radi would work, and I do want to test this supposed claim I've heard, about it chipping .....Haven't been able to locate any, as yet though.......anyone out there have a set of these to SELL Nickel Silver plating only ?????  

I might also just order a set of stainless steel ones in the radi I need, Alice at H&R Trains was telling me just today that a Gent can make what ever switch configuration you need with stainless steel rail...... 

Anyway back to your initial question, at hand, Brass track, and track power, cleaning all the time, the unmamed brand (Aristo), I would guess this is what is being alluded to here.

As I've already mentioned, I do have a few years experience with both brands of brass track, in differing climactic conditions, with the use of, LGB's engines rolling stock and wheels, USA's engines rolling stock and wheels, Aristo's engines rolling stock and wheels, MTH's engines rolling stock and wheels, even a Marklin engine TOO....

Biggest factor I have found, adding to a power pickup/dirty rail problem on Brass rail track, was the cheap PLASTIC wheels on the rail cars, that was improved, just a bit, after changing them to steel wheels, however I still had to do a good bit of cleaning though......

The constant cleaning factor really made no difference on either brand of Brass rail as far as I could decipher, over the many years of my using it. However when I did finally change to Stainless track the marked difference was definitely noticed.

I might further mention, that I have even experimented with some plastic wheeled rolling stock once again, and did notice some dirtying of the stainless track TOO, with them on the cars.........Moral of this scenario-----change to steel wheels.

I hope that this personal experience, I'm sharing with you, and not just PET brand pushing information, is of some help to you, MARK.

ALL manufacturers do have their inheren't specific problems with certain things they've made over the years. That too, I have experienced in the field of automotive repair, over the years, as a mechanic.

My Worth,

Byron C.

 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

Bob,

The original poster was very clear in wanting to know the Pro and Cons of Aristo stainless versus LGB brass. Your post was about as clear as mud.

-Brian 

 

 

Brian,

Don't think I need to add to that, nor could I have said it any better myself.........................................No clouds there.....

Byron C.

[imrnjr]

I've been using aristo stainless for a little over 2 years in my railway with very good success.  I chose the stainless for corrosion resistance to the hard well water we use on the yard and garden and the fact I am not interested in cleaning the track every time I run.  (Very high disolved solids, primarily calcium carbonate)  There was an earlier  mention of aristo rail joiners rusting out in a season or two which I have not seen with the joiners that are still on mine.  They appear to be the same stainless material as the rails so I don't see that rust should ever be a problem.

I run track power and currently have only one power feed on 450+ feet of track with less than 1.5 v of drop anywhere on the track.   I did however go to SplitJaw and Aristo clamps on most (60%) of the joints to eliminate cold spots in conductivity with the aristo slide/screw joiner set up.  I have enough clamps to replace the rest, but so far have not needed to do so.    

I buy the 8' flex rail and ties by the box so the earlier comment about being USA/main line only isn't exactly true, though I did choose the USA tie configuration for my layout.   I've seen the TDV/H&R trains track and it looks good, though a little shinier than my Aristo.  I've been told that it will fit the aristo tie sections as well but don't have any experience with that.

If you choose stainless to extend or replace I don't think you'll be disappointed.

regards

Mark

[EMPIRE II LINE]

One additional Assessment Mark,

I do happen to have one set of the USA brand Brass #6 switches in my train room, they seem to be using a Brass similar to what Aristo uses, I think.......It doesn't turn color like the LGB brand does.....

My main objection is the wide spacing of the ties, as well as the switch machine, I really don't like either.

However no real problem with cleaning, as I do have them in-doors, I would not put this switch machine out-side though, from the looks of it. Mind you, my personal assessments only here.... 

I purchased this set, just to personally assess their make-up, and I will not chose to purchase any more of their (Europeon style I guess, wide tie spacing track), maybe it's narrow gauge tie spacing. I don't know for sure....... 

Byron C. 

 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

  There was an earlier  mention of aristo rail joiners rusting out in a season or two which I have not seen with the joiners that are still on mine.  They appear to be the same stainless material as the rails so I don't see that rust should ever be a problem.

If you choose stainless to extend or replace I don't think you'll be disappointed.

regards

Mark

 

 

Mark, imrnjr,

The rusting problem that Aristo track experienced years back, was due to the fact that there was a batch of BRASS track made, using regular steel grade screws in the rail connectors, also into the rail through the tie strips on some of their earlier track. BRASS DOESN"T RUST FOLKS......

However, they, ARISTO, gladly/readily replaced all of these screws for me, as well as the problematic, non-UV resistant, tie strips on all of their earliest made track.......No questions asked, a whole new CASE of tie strips, no shipping charges for them either......

Byron C.

 

 

[lownote]

I got started in this hobby because I inherited a bunch of LGB stuff, mostly starter sets. I have roughly 400 feet of brass track, aristo and LGB and AML mixed.

If I were starting over, I'd go with stainless track. Cleaning would be less of a chore and I'd be less worried about copper pipe thieves! But it's too late now.

[Capt Bob Johnson]

To get to the essence of the question.  The club I belong to had LGB Brass track exclusively.   We did a display and there wasn't enough club track to do the layout, so I lent a couple of spare boxes of my Aristo stainless for the display.  

Everybody commented about how the trains would speed up when they got on the stainless track.    Over the 3 day weekend, the brass had to be cleaned before running each day, but they never touched the stainless.  

The club has begun to purchase stainless.

[altterrain]

To get to the essence of the question.  The club I belong to had LGB Brass track exclusively.   We did a display and there wasn't enough club track to do the layout, so I lent a couple of spare boxes of my Aristo stainless for the display.  

Everybody commented about how the trains would speed up when they got on the stainless track.    Over the 3 day weekend, the brass had to be cleaned before running each day, but they never touched the stainless.  

The club has begun to purchase stainless.

I wish my club had half the brain of your club Bob! 

-Brian 

[EMPIRE II LINE]

Yes Stainless steel is the way to GO & GO & GO & GO......

Byron C.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, should have bought some long time ago.

Toad

[Smoke Stack Lightnin']

Now for the unpopular perspective!  My layout is small, about 400' of Aristo brass, but the dog bone runs along side the walkway to the front of the house.  I work M-F and play in a band most weekends so my garden railroad is more enjoyed as a scenic railroad than a class A operation.  Yes, when I do get to run, usually Sundays, I get out the Swiffer with a fine grit foam sanding pad attached and walk the line, but I have to walk it anyway to clear dead fall etc. (15 min. max).  IMHO, the bright S/S looks cheesy and out of place, and guess you could paint it.  But I also like the way soft brass "melts" to my lawn's ever changing topography, which gives my trains that true branch line side to side sway and bobbing.  I have never had a problem with continuity and only have one send from my Bridgewerks Mag-15 to the track.  I do use rail clamps at all track joints, and used 6' sections where possible.  I can understand using S/S for clubs, if you run often, and if your physical condition or layout configuration has limited access- no secret- brass requires cleaning.  With regard to my continuity reference, there could be a difference in comparing LGB and Aristo.  Just wanted to give a different (albeit unpopular) perspective.

Stack   

[ttrigg]

I want your thoughts on Aristocraft stainless steel track, the pro's and the con's of it, I have used LGB brass track for a few years but seeing it is not going to be back on the market for a few years I'm looking to other brands to fill the void.... Has anyone used PIKO yet, if so what do you think? Please post..... Thanks, Mark  

Mark:

Not knowing where you are located or what your climate is like I would add this comment to all the previous discusson.  I use track power.  My climate is sunny and dry.  The track gets wet more from the sprinkler system than Mother Nature.  I have about 60 feet of LGB "sectional" and about 350 feet of LGB "Flex" in the ground.  I use a pole sander with scotch pad (sometimes I use a 2,000 grit sand paper, Yes I said two thousand grit).  It takes me about 3~5 minutes to run the pole sander around the entire track, this is enough to provide about a hundred and fifty hours of operation (3 weeks).  When I have friends over for a "heavy running day" I run a "Rem Wipe" (Remmington oil gun cleaning wipe) quickly over the track to provide slightly better conductivity to visiting engines.  My engines have no problem but two of the visiting twelve engines stutter a little on the dry track.  I like the patina that the LGB brass develops over time.  I hve another batch of LGB flex on top of the shed, aging before I put it in the ground. 

My only experience with Aristo stainless, is when I am the visiting engineer.  I do not notice any difference in running charastics of my engines.  My friend must run a pole sander with a swiffer pad over his rails more often than I do (each running day actually).  He has an extreemly serious snail and slug problem, and that slime coats the rails preventing good conductivity. Each time we run on his rails the group of us "harvest" in excess of 150~200 snails.  After a couple of years in the ground, he got down on knees and elbows with small paint brushes and a painting pallet to hide the shiny stainless "sparkle".  

Like I eluded to in my opening sentence, your climate and local conditions will have impact upon the conductivity your rails.  I have zero experience with the Piko rails.  All said, I still prefer LGB Brass, mostly I suppose for the patina that develops.  You did not ask about Aristo Brass, but I did have some in the ground and replaced it after a couple of years due to it not "patina-ing" and it did require more cleaning.  Well, thats my two cents worth.  I'll wait a year or so before I tackle the problem of not being able to get LGB Brass. 

[rhbswitzerland]

GUten Tag aus der Schweiz

ich habe auf meinen 500 m alles Edelstahgeleise von www.train.li und auch Aristo Weinen, die von Stephan Flück mit einem neuen Weichen herz ausgestattet wurden. Alle laufen sehr gut und ich bin auch im Winter sehr zu freiden. Die ist alles zu sehen unter www.gartenbahn.ch

Mit den besten Bahngrüssen aus der Schweiz

Andi Engi

www.gartenbahn.ch

[altterrain]

GUten Tag aus der Schweiz

ich habe auf meinen 500 m alles Edelstahgeleise von www.train.li und auch Aristo Weinen, die von Stephan Flück mit einem neuen Weichen herz ausgestattet wurden. Alle laufen sehr gut und ich bin auch im Winter sehr zu freiden. Die ist alles zu sehen unter www.gartenbahn.ch

Mit den besten Bahngrüssen aus der Schweiz

Andi Engi

www.gartenbahn.ch

anybody speak German? 

-Brian 

[jk475]

I have used Aristo track for 10 years now. I like the idea of fastening the track joints too. The big difference has always been cost, but my future layout will use railclamps which are quicker. Rail joiners alone can cause electrical hiccups, so eitgher method I listed here will work fine. I still use LGB turnouts though.

[LGBtrains1963]

I live in a area where it is hot 9 months out of the year, temp from 90 to 100, winter temps around 40, 100 % hum year round, rains about every 3 to 5 days, I'm just 35 miles due north of New Orleans, Louisiana.. across the lake... plus every 2 to 3 years we have a tropical storm, or a hurricane every 10 to 15 years (not like Katrina)... I think brass would be a nightmare to keep clean!!! Your Thoughts?  

[Anonymous]

Good day from Switzerland
 I have on my 500 m all Edelstahgeleise of www.train.li and also Aristo wines, which were equipped by Stephan Flück with new yielding heart. All run very well and I are also in the winter much to be freiden. Those is everything to see under www.gartenbahn.ch
with the best course greetings from Switzerland