Thanks Tony

[Anonymous]

I thought I'd post this here,rather than muck up a perfect picture info series.
This has been very informative.I'm ok on the electrical side but I can never be bothered to check battery outputs and loco demands.Just one thing.How long do these locos run before a recharge?
Troy

[TonyWalsham]

Hi Troy.
Glad to be of help.
How long the loco will run is determined by the battery capacity in mah.

I have a Bachmann Saddle Tank Porter that has 2,350 mah NiMH AA cells and Sierra sound. It runs for 5 hours plus.
I would imagine the Mack draws less than that so expect at least 5 hours.

Please note, for illustration pruposes I used regular AA alkaline cells. Not the most economical way to go.

[Anonymous]

Tony, this is an outstanding accomplishment. If I can nearly follow this conversion, anybody should be able to. And, I can!

Of course, I have the advantage of having taken my Mack apart myself now, so let me offer some suggestions for clarifying a few remaining things for somebody who hasn't dismantled the Mack and knows nothing about wiring:

-- Description of how you soldered a fuse to make it part of the switch. For the truly rank beginner, you'll need to show/describe exactly how you did it. (If you soldered the fuse's leads to the switch's contact points, then how does that provide a definite protective barrier? It seems to me the power could just jump straight down the switch, regardless of whether the fuse blows? So I must have missed something)

-- Also, why do you say "orient the switch so the fuse is toward the front". Is this a safety issue or what? Don't take our understanding for granted ... Does it matter for protectiion?

-- Still need the blurry switch wiring photo redone.

-- I wi***he photos were higher rez but I suspect that's a trains.com limitation, so we'll just have to live with it as their guests.

-- You might want to explain why certain steps are critical -- just a sentence or so. E.g., explain that by removing the contact "posts", you disable trackpower. That kind of thing.

I am so glad I nudged you to do this, Tony. It's exactly the kind of empowering how-to guide that I'd been hoping you could come up with! Before you did it, I wasn't sure I'd succeed if I tried this. Now I am.

Can't wait for the parts list and price guesstimates, trailing car versiion, etc.

F8

Best wishes.

[TonyWalsham]

Hi F8.

Thank you for the compliments.

QUOTE: -- Description of how you soldered a fuse to make it part of the switch. For the truly rank beginner, you'll need to show/describe exactly how you did it. (If you soldered the fuse's leads to the switch's contact points, then how does that provide a definite protective barrier? It seems to me the power could just jump straight down the switch, regardless of whether the fuse blows? So I must have missed something)

-- Also, why do you say "orient the switch so the fuse is toward the front". Is this a safety issue or what? Don't take our understanding for granted ... Does it matter for protectiion?

-- Still need the blurry switch wiring photo redone.

As they say in the classics. ...... All will be clear in the passage of time.

I will be replacing the blurry pic with a drawing that should make clear what I did. Rest assured the Polyswitch® fuse is in series with the two battery packs and therefore does offer protetction for the circuit.
The orientation of the switch is only suggested as I will be using the same switch assembly for the regular switcher installation. It enables the Mack hood to clear the wiring.

QUOTE: -- You might want to explain why certain steps are critical -- just a sentence or so. E.g., explain that by removing the contact "posts", you disable trackpower. That kind of thing.

Understood. I am not very good at writing instructions, simple or otherwise.
I would welcome other specific queries so that I can modify the thread as needed.

I hope to be able to get the wrap up done in a day or so together with the drawings and cost of parts.

I will not be doing a trail car installation as I have already done the regular switcher install. It was way simpler than the crate set up.

The greatest amount of time for the crate version was taken with making the tray and crate.

Best wishes,

Tony walsham (RCS).

[Anonymous]

Tony, it looks easy so far but the soldering. Never did that. What happened to the gondola body? Though it would be easier than building a create.
Bill Sr.

[Anonymous]

Tony Thanks for your work! Are there any RCS Installer/dealers in or near the state of Ohio? If there aren't I'll probably ship my first one to TOC then do the rest myself. I'm definately a visual learner[X-)][:D]

[Anonymous]

here is Tonys web site:

http://www.rcs-rc.com/

click on agents and that should get you going![:D]

Tony Rocks![:p]

cale

[TonyWalsham]

Thanks for the responses so far.

The original brief for the this project was to fit battery R/C into a HLW® Mack switcher.

The Mack is a great little loco that is very cleverly designed for more or less snap together construction. There are no solder joints in the loco at all.

The cab is quite voluminous and can easily carry what needs to be fitted.
There a lot of little nooks and crannies spread around the chassis front and back of the motor block and the two hoods. However, none of the spaces are usable for our purposes so creative placement of parts is needed.

I have a temperature controlled fine tipped soldering iron so soldering was an easy chore for me.
My sincere apologies for not considering those that do not have a good soldering iron.

To keep the cost at an absolute minimum I have shown how to do it without the available parts that have screw terminals. Unfortunately, this involves soldering of parts together.
The ON-OFF switch arrangement could be easily taken care of without soldering by using the BIK-U kit I make.

(Ignore the coiled cable on the left. It will not be needed).
The problem is the printed circuit board (pcb) onto which the switch, screw terminals and fuse are mounted is too big to fit under the crate or hood and, in the case of the crate, still leave enough room for the batteries fitted into low cost AA battery holders.
It would be simple to mount the BIK-U kit inside the chassis end plate and still leave clearance between the pcb and motor block end.
I prefer the switch to be hidden so I did it the way I did. If the modeller does not mind the switch toggle poking through the end plate of the chassis life would be a lot simpler.
This would be fine for a crate installation as the battery snap leads will reach down into under floor well. You would still have to wire two leads of the snaps in series and soldering would be recommended although a small twist on joiner would work.
Not so simple with the installation in the cab as the battery snap leads are not long enough to reach down from the cab to the pcb mounted on the chassis end plate. Again twist on joiners would be OK to extend the leads.
The other main soldering job is the the chokes that are necessary for motor noise suppression. I also have a kit RF-CHK with screw terminals that would eliminate soldering.

(The latest part is a little different but the size is still the same).

Using those two parts would eliminate soldering completely.

If the general opinion is that it would be better to show it done the no soldering way I will do so, but please understand the total cost would increase by about US$30 for the two parts.
From around US$140 to US$170.
The last figure includes everything. Batteries, charger, R/C, pcb's and wiring etc.

Please let me know.

As to the crate - v - the gondola.
The battery holders and R/C components require a given amount of space and the gondola is the wrong shape.
I don't have one here but I looked at the HLW pic and the measurements given by F8 and came to the conclusion that there would be so much cutting and gluing to make it fit.

Best wishes,

Tony Walsham (RCS).

[Anonymous]

I've never soldered, either, but I've come across recommendations for a metal epoxy paste that can be used to "solder" circuitboards without any heat. It sets just like an epoxy, but is extremely conductive. It looks like solder when it dries. It costs about $15 for a small 2-tube kit, but it can be used for many applications.

[Anonymous]

Tony, I'd suggest repeating all of the new information -- new options, new photos, etc. -- in the main thread (I mean, whenever the new info is ready for prime time). It's just easier to find info if there's a single 'document of reference'.

This is great fun. You should be proud of yourself for improving the beginners' situation a big step.

F8

[Anonymous]

I think to make Tony's life easier.Learn to solder.It's really easy,and will save you lots of money.
Tony,I think I will retro-build my battery drill for my track cleaner.You have opened a Pandora's Box here!
Interesting!!!
Troy

[Anonymous]

Troy, regarding your "just learn to solder" suggestion -- It's true that ideally we would all learn the basic skills of the hobby, but remember the original mission as discussed between Tony and a couple of us in the original thread:

The original mission for Tony was to design a battery + R/C conversion which no newbie would find intimidating in any way -- not in terms of price, not in terms of complexity of instructions, and not in terms of needing new tools or technical skills. I'm personally ready and eager to learn to solder. But it definitely falls into the category of a potential deterrent to a newbie. Last summer, for example, I wasn't anywhere near ready or eager to learn such things and might have just stuck with drawing and painting and skipped the trains!

Our original idea was that if a newbie -- even a kid! -- can convert two or three ultra-cheap ($36) trains to battery+R/C, and buy just $100 for a hundred or so feet of aluminum track, plus ten or so $7 Hartland shorty kit cars for $70 total (!), well, Large Scale as a hobby suddenly seems to be thrown wide open to everybody, both economically and skills-wise.

It's probably best to think not in terms of what seems easy to us personally, at this point in our hobby experience, but rather in terms of making the hobby fully accessible to people at all skill and experience levels.

So I agree with Bill Johnson. Creating a solder-free version of this conversion makes it more likely to become a "classic" for newbies just getting into the hobby. And the point wasn't to make the conversion easy for Tony -- it was to make it easy for the newbie.

Let's take Bill's wariness of soldering at face value. it no doubt represents thousands of potentially interested parties out there!

F8

[TonyWalsham]

For those interested I have added pics for the "No Solder" method to both parts of the installation.
The drawings showing how to wire the switches etc will follow asap.

Best wishes,

Tony Walsham (RCS).

[Anonymous]

Ordered Loco and 9 cars. Thanks Tony for no solder pics. Picked up Aristo track, circle and 10 straight. I have a HO pack that I can use to get stated. Need to see if I can build the crate before I decide to go RC. Radioshack has rechargeable batteries and holdrers. Is that OK? Should I use there charger?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by billJohnsonSr

Ordered Loco and 9 cars. Thanks Tony for no solder pics. Picked up Aristo track, circle and 10 straight. I have a HO pack that I can use to get stated. Need to see if I can build the crate before I decide to go RC. Radioshack has rechargeable batteries and holdrers. Is that OK? Should I use there charger?

Bill, you don't need to build the box the way Tony did. Any old box will do. Styrene (the stuff Tony used; it's sold at hobby shops under the trade name Evergreen) is soft and can be cut with just an Xacto knife. Then you can use super glue to fasten it together (but be very careful - superglue can seal your eyes and fingers together etc.).

You could even build the box out of popsicle sticks with their ends cut off (and for outdoor use just coat it with a weatherproof sealant inside and urethane or waterproof paint outside). You could also just buy a wooden or plastic box of roughly similar dimensions at a dime store, or thrift store, or Michael's craft shop, and use it as-is! The dimensions are not really critical so long as there's enough space inside for all the hardware.

To paint plastic, use Krylon's line of plastic-compatible spray paints.
F8

P.S. Your HO powerpack probably doesn't have enough power to run these big trains, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Tony, I'd prefer to try the soldering approach, but I still can't tell from your photo exactly how you soldered the fuse into the wire. The photo's just not detailed enough. I'll be patient if you're plannin' on gettin' to it later. [:)]

Also, could you figure out the internal/external styrene box dimensions that would be needed to accompli***he following: The same conversion, only with a crate that's low enough that it doesn't block the windows of the Mack? I know such a box would extend out over the coupler, but when I mocked up different arrangements, a box jutting out over the coupler didn't interfere with coupling (to various Hartland cars, at least). And it might look a lot more realistic/attractive to not have the window blocked? The box covering the window looks...awkward.

I don't if what I'm asking is possible. Maybe to have the box lower, it would have to jut out just too far? (Test it with a car or two and see?)

[TonyWalsham]

Hi F8.

The out of focus pic will be replaced by a drawing clearly showing how it is done.

I will also do the crate dimensions.

I am rather busy at the moment getting my H0 display track ready for a big model train show coming up soon.

I thought about the crate having a lower profile but was worried it would unbalance the switcher.

Unfortunately I cannot go back to it as I have already done the "In the cab" installation. It would be relatively simple for a modeller to work out what is needed based on the volume of each of the battery holders.

The cab offers more useable space and really is the simplest and easiest way to do the job.

Best wishes,

Tony Walsham (RCS).

[Anonymous]

My radio needs a battery for the radio . so I thought I better order the hitec set from tower . on there web page it says it needs 4 aa cels for the receiver. Where did you put them? the picturs and diagram do not show any power to the receive. does it get power from the servo plug from the rcs board?

[TonyWalsham]

Hi Bill,

QUOTE: the picturs and diagram do not show any power to the receive. does it get power from the servo plug from the rcs board?

That is a very valid question Bill.

The RX is powered by the Motor Driver card.
There is a 5 volt regulator that powers the RX and the logic circuits.
Whilst not exactly the same as BEC (Battery Eliminator Circuit) it does more or less the same thing.

You will of course need 8 batteries for the TX.

[BillBrakeman]

Tony, I think you are due another round of thanks. The second installment of your HLW Mack project was as, if not more, informative than the first. I may never personally do this conversion, but your article sure gives me alot of ideas about what can be done in a small loco.
Thanks,
Bill