NYC RR routes onto Manhattan Island.

All Neew York Central passenger trains and all New Haven passenger trains from or to Grand Central Terminal used a four-track bridge crossing the Harlem River from about 130th Street Manhattan to 32nd Street in the Bronx at Park Avenue.   I believe this was originally a swinging bridge or regular draw bridge but is now a vertical lift bridge.

 

New Haven trains into Penn Station used the Hell Gate Bridge to Queens and then the LIRR-PRR East River tunnels to Manhattan.

 

At one time the Central did operate West Side passenger service on the freight line, but this was discontinuied about 1931.   Now this is what Amtrak uses to access Penn Station on trains from Albany.   I believe the bridge you saw at Spuyten Dyvil is double-track, ....or was.

The bridge at Spuyten Dyvil is single track for now. But, it would be nice to see it returned to double track, but with Amtrak and the NYSSR being so friendly towards one another, i'd expect to see the Albany/Rensselaer trains being operated by Metro-North into GCT (which is what Amtrak wants to have happen.) rather than Penn station, so the Long Island can have their tracks back. Oh, the Amtrak trains to Niagara Falls, NYSSR, Toronto or Montreal ride them soon or regret it! The Late for Sure a/k/a The Lake Shore Limited won't be around long, either, if the NYSSR and Amtrak have their way about this! The replacement link would be via Pittsburgh on the Capitol, then the Pennsylvanian to NYP, then an Acela or a regional to Boston. Amtrak is in real trouble, and I feel it's time to let it go. 

Thanks, Dave!

Apparently it's a straight shot right down Park Ave. from 130th St., where the passenger mains first touch Manhattan Island, to 42nd St. at the front door of Grand Central Terminal.

Yes, it is a straight line.  There is basically an elevated structure from the bridge to about 124th Street, then a fill with underpasses at most (but not all) cross streets down to 116th Street, then the incline to the tunnels (including some tunnel construction dating back to about 1854, the rest originally open cut of about that era later covered over with decking) going underground at about 114th Street, then 4 underground tracks down to about 57th Street where the throat and two tracks going down to a lower level start.   The Terminal itself has two levels, the upper one was originally for long distance trains and the lower for commuter trains.  Both have loop tracks connecting the westernmost and the easternmost tracks.  All tracks now have high-level platforms, although at one time there were tracks with only low-level platforms on the lower level.   There are also some storage tracks on the east side of the platform tracks.  At one time during the Penn Central and beginning Conrail days, the entire lower level was shut down for passengers and only used for storage.  For this reason my personal opinion is there is some boondoggling in the LIRR East Side Access Program, with much higher construction costs, than would occur if Metro North could just turn over six tracks of the lower level to the LIRR, making a  third level unnecessary.

 

Amtrak does not want to return to GCT.   They are happy to centralize their operations at Penn for lowest costs.  What may happen instead, is that eventually Metro North will expand to Albany and run the Albany - NY service. Then running this service out of GCT would make sense.   I doubt that the Lake Shore and Adarondak will just dissapear.   I think there are too many Congrerssmen who  will insist the service continue and get more adequate funding. 

 

There is also talk of running both some New Haven Division and some Hudson Division Metro North commuter service into Penn Station, once LIRR's requirements are slightly reduced by diversion of some trains to GCT.   I personally have thought that Albany  -  Patchogue and Ronkonkama through service is long overdue, but the political problems in getting LIRR and Metro North to work together (they both are part of the MTA) seem unsolvable, and right now Amtrak would also be part of this service.   But through New Haven or Stamford to Pouhgkeepsie or Croton-Hamron service might be a way of minimizing track occupancy at Penn for these new services, and eventually the electrification will be extended from Croton-Harmon to Poughkeepsie.   Then, of course, the double track on the bridge will be restored and improvements made to the interlocking for higher speeds and greater flexibility in routing.

 

As a youngster, I spent many an evening in the Spuyten Dyvil Tower, where Herman Rinke was evening towerman before becoming an ICC inspector.   He practially ran the Electric Railroaders Association in those days.   He was a good friend of my father, and thus my parents felt it perfectly safe for me to go off on fan trips.  He would also take in John Kneiling's Joint Railfan Trip Committee trips.   Being his friend also got me front platform rides on MU commuter trains out of NYC.  At the end of the phone call leading to my visit, he would always add:  "And be careful stepping over the third rails."   In those days there was a low-level-platform Spuyten Dyvil Station where most of the GCT - Croton locals stopped.

 

About 14 years ago my friends Barbara and Rodney Mrgvannes, fellow pipe-organ nuts, invited me for a sail on the Hudson and I enjoyed seeing the Amtrak trains running up and down the line as welll as the freights on the River Divison across the river.

Here's my question.  How is Spuyten Duyvil pronounced?  I've always wondered.

motor

I assume Herman Rinke's pronunciation was the correct one since he worked at the tower there.  He pronounced it pretty much as Speyetin Dieyvill.

 

Herman did not own an automobile as a matter of principle.   Like his good friend E. J. Quinby, he strongly believed in streetcars, electric trains, long distance passenger trains.   He lived near the Greystone Station (Yonkers, north of the main Yonkers Station) in an apaartment on Warburton Avenue and could easily commute to work on his pass on the NYC, as well as reach the city via the frequent commuter trains.  And the Broadway-Warburton Avenue No. 1 Streetcar line passed his front door and allowed easy trips to the Subway at Van Courtland Park or via a connection at Gettys Square to the 7 streetcar to Mount Vernon and connection to New Rochelle.   In 1952 buses replaced the 1 streetcar line and Herman reached 65 and was retired at the New York Central and became an ICC inspector, for which he had to purchase an automobile, but bought a second hand one.

motor wrote:

Here's my question.  How is Spuyten Duyvil pronounced?  I've always wondered. motor

I have heard that and "Spittin' Devil". The name derives from the term "in spite of the Devil", early sailors had to be very careful there for the currents are very tricky, an unwary sailor could come to grief there very easily. So, If you got your boat by safely, it was in spite of the Devil's efforts to put you on the rocks.

PBenham wrote:

motor wrote: Here's my question.  How is Spuyten Duyvil pronounced?  I've always wondered. motor I have heard that and "Spittin' Devil". The name derives from the term "in spite of the Devil", early sailors had to be very careful there for the currents are very tricky, an unwary sailor could come to grief there very easily. So, If you got your boat by safely, it was in spite of the Devil's efforts to put you on the rocks.

Spy - tin Die - vill has also been translated as Spouting Devil - a reference to the nasty tidal whirlpool that sometimes developed a fountain effect in the middle.  Since the improvements (??) in the Harlem River, some of the worst tidal effects have been reduced, but it's still nasty water for a small boat.

In addition to the ex-NYC bridge, the nearby Broadway swing bridge once had rails on two levels - streetcar tracks at street level and elevated "subway" tracks overhead.

Chuck (ex New Yorker)

The nearby Broadway Bridge has an interesting history.  The original bridge at that location dates from Colonial times, and was probably the first bridge linking Manhattan with the USA mainland.   The original "post road" rom New York north to Albany.  It was called the Kingsbridge, and this name was perpetuated by the streetcar that provided the regular service across the bridge at that location, the "K" car, even though the formal name of the route was 125th St., Amsterdam Avenue, and Broadway, in small letters under the large K on the dash under the right front window.  The Broadway "subway on viaduct" still crosses at this point with three tracks, the Transit System's "1" route.  The swing bridge used during streetcar days and the elevated subway line dated from about 1908-1910.   Long after streetcar service was replaced by buses, the present bridge was installed, and I believe, if memory is correct, that it is now a vertical lift bridge.   The streetcar tracks, two, one in each direction, in the center of the roadway, had both the conduit and the overhead wire current collection systems.  The conduit was for the K line, which like all other Manhattan streetcars, did not use trolley poles but the conduit system, with a plow, a vertical insulated carrier, suspended from the bolster of one of the two four-wheel trucks  (bogies to you Brits) with current shoes on each side for contact with contact rails, one positive at 600V and the other ground, on each side of slot.   This was the northernmost Manahtan line, switching back at Broadway and 225th Streeet, at the north end of the bridge.  The overhead wire was for Bronx streetcars based at the Manhattan carbarn at 215th Street aned Broadway.  The last day of operation of the K and 125th Street Crosstown was 28 June 1947, and the next day there was an open bench car fantrip on the New Haven, CT, streetcar ssytem.   The wire and tracks to the "Kingsbridge Barn" were used until August 1948.

NYC was one of the great roads.

motor wrote:

Here's my question.  How is Spuyten Duyvil pronounced?  I've always wondered. motor

After living there for decades, I can tell you that like most things New York, it depends on which borough, neighborhood and sometimes even block you hail from.

Mostly I hear "Spy-ten Die-vill" as the most usual pronunciation. That's my perception of the "right" pronunciation and the one I use myself - along with about 75% of my NY friends, I'd say. So that seems to be sort of the "Manhattan Standard" pronunciation.

Then you layer on micro-regional stuff. For instance, from the Bronx or Long Island it sounds more like "spoy-ten doy-vill." Whereas a Brooklynite will say something along the lines of "Sput-ten Duh-vill."

FWIW, My actually-from-Holland Dutch friend says it would be pronounced "Shpouten Doyvill" back in the homeland. And interesting, though probably irrelevant, my Danish friend says he would pronounce it "Zbowten Dowvill."

In all cases, accent is on the first syllable of each word, e.g. "SPY-ten DIE-vill"

The one thing I can say for sure is I have NEVER heard any New Yorker (native or long-term resident) say "Spittin' Devil"... Yes, that's the translation of the Dutch words, but I've never heard it actually said that way. You'd never say "Red Stick" Louisiana instead of "Baton Rouge," or "Of the Monks" Iowa instead of "Des Moines," right?: Despite the fact that it's close to being a cognate, the fact is it's not English and using the English is just not correct.

So the short version is with more decades than I care to remember resident in NYC, I vote for "Spy-ten Die-vill."

I can provide a second for the above!

As a born-Manhattanite I can confirm that the pronunciation was indeed "Spy-ten Die-vill" but that can vary depending which Borough (or even part of it) that you were from.

The tracks for the West Side line run underneath a structure called the "Overbuild" from about 72nd street northwards - parts of Riverside Drive Park are right over the tracks and they had large grates through which the rumble of diesel engines could be heard.

The West Side freight yard was pretty active as late as 1968, with the NYC still providing car float service across the river to New Jersey.

 

As another resident of the west side of Manhattan, and a local history buff, I will second the vote for the pronunciation "spy-ten-die-vill."  Yes, there are a variety of stories of where the name came from, all of which relate of the difficult tidal currents at that location.  Probably the most famous and most widely accepted account of the name was chronicled by Washington Irving in A History of New York from the Beginning of the World to the End of the Dutch Dynasty.  He tells the story of a messenger dispatched by New Amsterdam governor Peter Minuit who, when he arrived at the creek at the north end of Manhattan Island, was refused by the operator of the "ferry"  (We probably glorify the craft that was then in use by calling it a "ferry," this was after all the 1620s).  The weather was bad that night --- rain and wind --- and the ferry pilot wasn't about to undertake any risky crossings.  Minuit's man was so incensed by this that he vowed to swim the creek im spijt den duyvil --- "in spite of the devil" --- so he jumped in and promprtly drowned.

The Washington Irving spoken of here is the same writer who is probably better known for his writings about such legendary Hudson Valley characters as Rip Van Winkle, and Ichabod Crane and the Headless Horeseman.

Oh, by the way, my Dutch is essentially non existent, so my apologies if I mispelled the above quote.  Also by the way, Peter Minuit was the guy who made the famous $24.00 purchase of Manhattan Island from the local natives.

 

 

OK call it a third!!! I lived in the Inwood section of Manhattan for almost 8 years, my Grandparents lived there since the mid sixties until moving to NJ in 1989. I also attest to Tom's pronunciation. On a side note, I have also spent numerous hours inside the now abandoned (and hopefully not razed) "DV" tower. Managed to befriend the 2nd trick (I think) signal maintainer there, and would visit him during the summer. Was a LOT of fun for a 13 year old!!! On a few occasions I was allowed to operate the levers in the tower with supervision of course. Regretfully I was too young to have a camera then, but thanks to the kindness of one Signal Maintainer, Mr. Rudy Frank, I have a lot of great memories...I only hope SOMEONE saved the model board from the tower!!!!


Steve Loitsch