Jake, I understood that you were working with a simple turnout. But what happened shouldn't have. Some questions: If the switch were the letter Y, are the control rails located in the tracks that connect to the two top legs of the Y, not the bottom? Is there one control rail in each of those two tracks? Are the control rails completely insulated? Is one control rail connected only to one of the outer switch-machine terminals? Is the other control rail connected only to the other outer switch-machine terminal? Is the U terminal of the transformer connected both to the negative lead of the capacitor and to the outside rails generally, but not to the control rails?
Bob Nelson
Bob, I was talking about wiring on the one experimental switch that is not in the layout and not the double slip switch. I placed a wire from one insulated rail to one outside post on the switch, and a wire from the other insulated rail to the other outside post on the switch. When I did that, it would not work at all, but if I removed on of them, it would work fine. It would work if I placed a metal strip across either rail, but a train car was trying to activate both together. I understand that this is not a proper wiring deal, and that I need to deal with the two switch machines on the double slip switch. I'll fool with that tomorrow.
I did not see the arrows with the minus sign! I guess I looked too hard! Jake
Here is a picture of Radio Shack's 4700 microfarad capacitor. The negative lead is on the right, where the arrows with the minus sign on them are pointing.
You wrote, "I made the switch work either way finally by hooking the wires from the outside two posts to the insulated rails, one each. Now however a train will not activite the switch as they both being activated at the same time." If the control rails are in the two separate paths leading to the turnout in the trailing-point direction, I don't see how they can both be activated at the same time unless there are two trains trying to get through the turnout at the same time.
In the future, if a capacitor is not marked, one end will be connected to the outside of the case, that is the negative side, the other side which is + will be insulated, not the wire, but the end of the capacitor.
I made the switch work either way finally by hooking the wires from the outside two posts to the insulated rails, one each. Now however a train will not activite the switch as they both being activated at the same time. So...I need to go to the double slip switch and fool with both switches, but I think I have the tiger by the tail now. Maybe . Jake
I think we're making progress. We know that the middle terminal of the switch machine is the common and therefore that the other two terminals are not common. All the remaining problems are in the negative end of the capacitor, the U terminal of the transformer, and the outside rails, in general and the insulated control rails.
First, the transformer's U terminal connects to the negative end of the capacitor and to the outside rails in general, but not to the insulated control rails.
Next, there are two other groups of things that are connected together. One group comprises two control rails and one of the non-common (not in the middle) terminals on each switch machine. The control rails in this group of four are the two at the ends of one of the diagonal paths across the slipswitch. The switch-machine terminals are the same one on each switch machine. If you use the terminal closer to the track on one machine, use the one closer to the track on the other.
The other group comprises the other two control rails and the other terminals on both switch machines.
If, when you wire this up, the slipswitch throws to the wrong path as a train approaches, just swap the connections to the non-common terminals of each switch machine.
The diagram you posted is a good idea. Can you update it and do it again, so that I can check this next step?
" border="0" />I'm experimenting with a single switch that's not in the layout, thought this might be the easiest way to work on things, as the slip switch requires me to crawl across the layout.
The switch machines are the same for any Atlas switch, this I know for a fact. Here is what I did. I hooked the middle post of the switch to the U post on the transformer. If I touch either outside post on the switch with the hot wire, it will jump the switch back and forth. Is this what you need to know about the switch? Next I wired up the Diode, Resistor and capacitor as shown. Where I'm getting lost thre is what outside rails on the switch, or insulated track piece gets wired and what wire goes on these insulated rails or outside rails? If I hook ONE wire from the ( - ) side of the capacitor to the outside rail of the insulated track piece and run a car over that piece onto the switch, it will work just fine, every time. I cannot figure out how to wire this up so the next time a car approaches, it will throw the switch back the other direction. Bob if I knew this was going to be this much trouble I would have bought a wind up Marx with a single loop of track! Shucks, I would have somehow made that complicated too!. Thanks again, Bob, Jake
The control rails are not all wired together. Do you know which is the common terminal of the switch machine? Each switch machine has one common terminal and two terminals that are not common ("non-common").
"The first thing is to verify which one is the common. (I'm betting it is the one in the middle.) If the slipswitch is already on the layout, make a temporary connection to the center rail and one outside rail near the slipswitch to each of two wires. Turn up the track voltage to sixteen volts or thereabouts and briefly touch the two wires to each possible pair of terminals on one switch machine. There are only three ways to do this. Two of the ways will make the points move. The one terminal that is in both of those pairs is the common. For example, if touching the two outside terminals with the wires does not make the points move, but touching the center terminal and either of the outside terminals does make them move, then the common is the center terminal."
Have you done this yet? What was the result? If you can tell me which one is the common terminal, we can proceed from there.
Make a control rail by insulating a section of outside rail in each track leg attached to the slipswitch. Connect one control rail to one of the non-common terminals of one switch machine. Connect that same terminal to the corresponding terminal of the other switch machine. Connect that to the control rail diagonally opposite the first one. Then do the same with the two control rails and switch-machine terminals that you have not already connected to anything.
Bob, I think I understand it all except this part. Are all the control rails wired together eventually? All wired back to the non common ( middle ) post on the switches? Jake
Jake, you can make the drawing you asked for, for yourself, from my diagram. Where you see ---, draw a wire. Where you see (resistor), draw a resistor; where you see (diode|), draw a diode; etc. If you need to know what they look like, go to the Radio Shack web site and look up the part numbers I gave you.
I will assume that you are using the ZW that you said you had, since I don't know anything about the Z4000. Start with (ground) on the left. That is your outside rails. Connect them to the U terminal of your ZW transformer. Connect the A, B, C, or D terminal of your transformer, whichever you want to use to power the slipswitch, to the anode of the diode, that is, the end without the stripe. Connect the cathode of the diode, that is, the end with the stripe, to one end of the resistor. Connect the other end of the resistor to the + end (probably unmarked) of the capacitor. Connect the - end (probably marked with a minus sign) of the capacitor to ground, that is again, your outside rails.
The + end of the capacitor is the power supply, V, for your slipswitch. Connect it to the common terminal (probably the middle one) of both switch machines.
I don't have any way to draw this beyond what I have done already. If someone else can understand it and post a picture for Jake, please go for it.
Bob, you are going to regret handling this post before long, if you aren't already!
I understand all the individual components, but how are they wired? Coming from the U Terminal, what does that wire have hooked up to it along this string? Same with the hot lead coming from either the transformer , where will this all go? What is hooked with what? I think what I need is an actual drawing with the part labeled, from the transformer to the parts, to the switches and any rails that are involved, including the insulated rails if we are still using them. Again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge in all of this, it's pretty new to me. Thanks, Jake
I got this by e-mail from Jake:"Bob, could you simplify the string of events for the wiring on the post several postings back? I'm not sure what those parts are. Do they have only one wire on them? Are they meant to be wired in a straight connection series? Thanks, Jake"
Here again is the power-supply circuit for the slipswitch:
(ground)---(supply)---(diode|)---(resistor)--V--(+capacitor-)---(ground)
The --- represents a wire. Each thing in parentheses has as many wires connected to it as are shown. Specifically,
(ground) is one connection to the transformer common, the layout's outside rails generally.
(supply) is an AC voltage from your transformer, either an accessory voltage or a variable voltage, in which case the left connection is the transformer common, which is connected as shown to ground. Or it could be a completely separate transformer whose common is also connected to ground. It could also be the same voltage that you have connected to the center rail of the track from a transformer whose common is connected as shown to ground. The voltage depends on what the slipswitch needs; but I would start with 10 to 15 volts.
(diode|) is a rectifier diode with two leads. The lead on the left end is the anode, which is connected as shown to the transformer terminal that is not grounded. The lead at the right end has a stripe, |, and is the cathode. You could use a 1N4001 (Radio Shack 276-1101) or anything larger.
(resistor) is a power resistor with two leads, which are interchangeable. The lead at one end is connected to the cathode of the diode, as shown. The lead at the other end is connected to the capacitor. It charges the capacitor slowly over several seconds when the train is not on a control rail. Use 100 ohms, 10 watts (271-135 ). You can also use an incandescent lamp, like a number 53 (272-1117), in place of the resistor, for a faster, more complete recharge.
(+capacitor-) is an electrolytic capacitor with two leads. The lead on the left end is the positive lead, which is usually not marked. It is connected to the resistor. The lead on the right end is the negative lead. Usually it is marked with a minus sign. It is connected to ground. The capacitor stores up and discharges the current that throws the slipswitch. Like the voltage, its size depends on the slipswitch; but I would start with 4700 microfarads at 35 volts (272-1022).
V is the voltage that connects to the common terminals of both switch machines. It is not a part. It is just a point anywhere on the wire connecting the resistor and the capacitor.
For testing only, you could skip this entire circuit, letting V be simply the transformer voltage, and just connect the slipswitch common terminals directly to the transformer, like this:
(ground)---(supply)--V
You should not have anything on the control rails for more than a few seconds if you do this, since the coils will be energized continuously if you do and are in danger of burning out. But it is a way to make sure you have the control rails and the switch-machine terminals wired correctly before you go to the trouble to build the power supply.
Image file from Jake. Re complexity, the Ross one has support for additional control to allow for advanced wiring to accomodate show wheel base pick up rollers.
Okay, I got the diagram from Jake. It is a lot simpler than Chuck's. It does look like there are only three terminals on each switch machine, which is a good indication that one is the common and the other two are connections to the individual coils.
The first thing is to verify which one is the common. (I'm betting it is the one in the middle.) If the slipswitch is already on the layout, make a temporary connection to the center rail and one outside rail near the slipswitch to each of two wires. Turn up the track voltage to sixteen volts or thereabouts and briefly touch the two wires to each possible pair of terminals on one switch machine. There are only three ways to do this. Two of the ways will make the points move. The one terminal that is in both of those pairs is the common. For example, if touching the two outside terminals with the wires does not make the points move, but touching the center terminal and either of the outside terminals does make them move, then the common is the center terminal.
Wire up the power circuit that I drew several posts back. Connect the commons of both switch machines to V on that diagram. Connect one of the other terminals to the same terminal on the other switch machine, then connect both of them to control rails at each end of one of the diagonal paths through the slipswitch. Do the same with the other terminal on both switch machines and the control rails on the other diagonal path through the slipswitch.
Turn on the power and see whether the control rails throw the slipswitch correctly. If they line it for the wrong path, just swap all the connections between the control rails and the switch-machine terminals.
Let me have a crack at it, I'll see if I can post it here
I looked at the diagram again. Now it seems that there are switch machines (DZ1000?), with no wiring at all (!), and relays of some sort (DZ1008?). Does anyone have anything that shows what the wiring is inside this thing?
I'm sure that what you want can be done, Jake. The problem is that I don't know what we're working with. Until I can see an authoritative schematic of the slipswitch and all its peripheral parts, or someone wants to send me one to take apart, I have no confidence in anything I've told you about how to wire the slipswitch itself, as opposed to the capacitor power supply above.
Jake, I don't understand your comment about "neg to the switch machines". The common (C) terminals of the switch machines connect to V in the circuit I drew. V will have a positive voltage when the capacitor is charged. The other terminals of the switch machines connect to the control rails. No "neg".
I'm afraid that the "ASCII art" version of a diagram is about all I know how to do.
I looked again at the drawing that Chuck posted. I'm not clear about what it is showing me. Are there 7 wires coming out of each switch machine? And some sort of controller for each switch machine, to which the red, green, yellow, and black wires connect? If so, my guess is that the black wire is supposed to go to the layout common, that is, the outside rails; the yellow wire to the accessory voltage, but in your case to point V on my circuit instead; and the red and green wires to the control rails in your case, with both reds tied together and to one pair of control rails, and both greens to the other pair. The other wires go where their diagram shows them.
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