I talked to Atlas tech support yesterday, explained to them that I wanted a train entering the double slip switch to throw it automatically before entering the switch, they told me with what is available out there now, it's not possible. Did maybe I not explain what I was trying to do on here? Seems like Bob Nelson had it pinned down. I don't want the train to slow down or stop, just throw the switch. I was told that because of constant track voltage, nothing would work, unless maybe I did not explain myself clearly to them! How I wish now I would have used a crossover at 22 degrees! Jake
Jake, we know so far that the slipswitch has two coils. Can you tell us what the paths through it are after energizing each of the coils individually? You should be able to do this just by connecting a transformer briefly to the center wire and one of the other wires. Then repeat for the center wire and the other wire.
Later: After some searching, I was able to find a large enough picture of this thing (ATO6027) to get an idea of what we're dealing with. It appears that it has two switch machines, each presumably with two coils, for a total of four. Imagine the slipswitch arranged left-to-right in front of you. When the points on the left side are up and those on the right are down, there is a path from the upper left to the lower right. When the points on the left are down and on the right, up, there is a path from the lower left to the upper right. When both sets of points are up, there is a path from lower left to lower right. And when both sets of points are down, there is a path from upper left to upper right.
I think Jake wants to use the slipswitch as a substitute for a crossing. If so, only the first two arrangements are needed. So it is possible to connect the coils together in parallel. The commons (apparently the center terminals on each machine) go together. The inner terminals go together; and the outer terminals go together. Then applying a voltage between center and outer terminals should line it for one path; and a voltage between center and inner terminals for the other path.
So, everything I have said about what I thought was a two-coil device applies to the four-coil device with the switch machines wired together as I described. If trains can approach from either direction on either track, you will need four control rails. But the two rails on each track can be wired together, so that the same configuration results no matter which way the train comes from.
Am I on the right track (so to speak), Jake?
Bob Nelson
OK, all Atlas switches are wired the same. The schematics for any switch is identical, so whatever their machines are , they install them in all switches.
Attach the U Post from the transformer to the middle post on the switch, then touch the power wire from the transformer to the left post, the switch throws. Touch the power wire to the right post, the switch throws, each time power is added to one post, it throws, unless of course you touch it to the same post twice in a row. Does this anwer the question? Does this arrangement allow some configuration for automatic throw? I cannot imagine this cannot be done somehow, using a motion sensor, relay, or something. I have a circuitron circuit board that uses photo cells imbedded in the track for sensing an oncoming train, but that would burn out the switch I think, unless the switch once throw cuts out it's own contact with power? Jake
I don't know if this is any help, but this is the wiring diagram for the Ross version of the double slip:
Please keep in mind I'm trying to make the incoming train throw the switch.
Both switch machines in the double slip work together, but I still am not clear at all on how to make the incoming train throw the switch so the next train will do likewise and not end up on the same loop. Is that possible and if so, can someone describe the wiring for that in pretty basic terms? Thanks to all that are trying here, much appreciation. Jake
PS. the middle post on the switch machines goes to U post on the transformer, the two outsides will throw the switch if hit with a hot lead.
Here is the power-supply circuit for the slipswitch:
(ground)---(supply)---(diode|)---(resistor)--V--(+capacitor-)---(ground)
(ground) is the transformer common, the layout's outside rails generally.
(supply) is an AC voltage from your transformer, either an accessory voltage or a variable voltage. Or it could be a completely separate transformer whose common is also connected to ground. It could also be the same voltage that you have connected to the center rail of the track. The voltage depends on what the slipswitch needs; but I would start with 10 to 15 volts.
(diode|) is a rectifier diode. The | is the stripe that indicates the cathode terminal. You could use a 1N4001 (Radio Shack 276-1101) or anything larger.
(resistor) is a power resistor. It charges the capacitor slowly over several seconds when the train is not on a control rail. Use 100 ohms, 10 watts (271-135 ). You can also use an incandescent lamp, like a number 53 (272-1117), in place of the resistor, for a faster, more complete recharge.
(+capacitor-) is an electrolytic capacitor. It stores up and discharges the current that throws the slipswitch. Usually the negative terminal is the one that is marked. Like the voltage, its size depends on the slipswitch; but I would start with 4700 microfarads at 35 volts (272-1022).
V is the voltage that connects to the common terminals of both switch machines.
The L terminals of both switch machines are connected together and connected to two insulated control rails, one on each end of the slipswitch, both in one of the two paths through the slipswitch.
The R terminals of both switch machines are connected together and connected to two other insulated control rails, one on each end of the slipswitch, both in the other of the two paths through the slipswitch.
Jake, I don't understand your comment about "neg to the switch machines". The common (C) terminals of the switch machines connect to V in the circuit I drew. V will have a positive voltage when the capacitor is charged. The other terminals of the switch machines connect to the control rails. No "neg".
I'm afraid that the "ASCII art" version of a diagram is about all I know how to do.
I looked again at the drawing that Chuck posted. I'm not clear about what it is showing me. Are there 7 wires coming out of each switch machine? And some sort of controller for each switch machine, to which the red, green, yellow, and black wires connect? If so, my guess is that the black wire is supposed to go to the layout common, that is, the outside rails; the yellow wire to the accessory voltage, but in your case to point V on my circuit instead; and the red and green wires to the control rails in your case, with both reds tied together and to one pair of control rails, and both greens to the other pair. The other wires go where their diagram shows them.
I looked at the diagram again. Now it seems that there are switch machines (DZ1000?), with no wiring at all (!), and relays of some sort (DZ1008?). Does anyone have anything that shows what the wiring is inside this thing?
I'm sure that what you want can be done, Jake. The problem is that I don't know what we're working with. Until I can see an authoritative schematic of the slipswitch and all its peripheral parts, or someone wants to send me one to take apart, I have no confidence in anything I've told you about how to wire the slipswitch itself, as opposed to the capacitor power supply above.
Let me have a crack at it, I'll see if I can post it here
Okay, I got the diagram from Jake. It is a lot simpler than Chuck's. It does look like there are only three terminals on each switch machine, which is a good indication that one is the common and the other two are connections to the individual coils.
The first thing is to verify which one is the common. (I'm betting it is the one in the middle.) If the slipswitch is already on the layout, make a temporary connection to the center rail and one outside rail near the slipswitch to each of two wires. Turn up the track voltage to sixteen volts or thereabouts and briefly touch the two wires to each possible pair of terminals on one switch machine. There are only three ways to do this. Two of the ways will make the points move. The one terminal that is in both of those pairs is the common. For example, if touching the two outside terminals with the wires does not make the points move, but touching the center terminal and either of the outside terminals does make them move, then the common is the center terminal.
Wire up the power circuit that I drew several posts back. Connect the commons of both switch machines to V on that diagram. Connect one of the other terminals to the same terminal on the other switch machine, then connect both of them to control rails at each end of one of the diagonal paths through the slipswitch. Do the same with the other terminal on both switch machines and the control rails on the other diagonal path through the slipswitch.
Turn on the power and see whether the control rails throw the slipswitch correctly. If they line it for the wrong path, just swap all the connections between the control rails and the switch-machine terminals.
Image file from Jake. Re complexity, the Ross one has support for additional control to allow for advanced wiring to accomodate show wheel base pick up rollers.
I got this by e-mail from Jake:"Bob, could you simplify the string of events for the wiring on the post several postings back? I'm not sure what those parts are. Do they have only one wire on them? Are they meant to be wired in a straight connection series? Thanks, Jake"
Here again is the power-supply circuit for the slipswitch:
The --- represents a wire. Each thing in parentheses has as many wires connected to it as are shown. Specifically,
(ground) is one connection to the transformer common, the layout's outside rails generally.
(supply) is an AC voltage from your transformer, either an accessory voltage or a variable voltage, in which case the left connection is the transformer common, which is connected as shown to ground. Or it could be a completely separate transformer whose common is also connected to ground. It could also be the same voltage that you have connected to the center rail of the track from a transformer whose common is connected as shown to ground. The voltage depends on what the slipswitch needs; but I would start with 10 to 15 volts.
(diode|) is a rectifier diode with two leads. The lead on the left end is the anode, which is connected as shown to the transformer terminal that is not grounded. The lead at the right end has a stripe, |, and is the cathode. You could use a 1N4001 (Radio Shack 276-1101) or anything larger.
(resistor) is a power resistor with two leads, which are interchangeable. The lead at one end is connected to the cathode of the diode, as shown. The lead at the other end is connected to the capacitor. It charges the capacitor slowly over several seconds when the train is not on a control rail. Use 100 ohms, 10 watts (271-135 ). You can also use an incandescent lamp, like a number 53 (272-1117), in place of the resistor, for a faster, more complete recharge.
(+capacitor-) is an electrolytic capacitor with two leads. The lead on the left end is the positive lead, which is usually not marked. It is connected to the resistor. The lead on the right end is the negative lead. Usually it is marked with a minus sign. It is connected to ground. The capacitor stores up and discharges the current that throws the slipswitch. Like the voltage, its size depends on the slipswitch; but I would start with 4700 microfarads at 35 volts (272-1022).
V is the voltage that connects to the common terminals of both switch machines. It is not a part. It is just a point anywhere on the wire connecting the resistor and the capacitor.
For testing only, you could skip this entire circuit, letting V be simply the transformer voltage, and just connect the slipswitch common terminals directly to the transformer, like this:
(ground)---(supply)--V
You should not have anything on the control rails for more than a few seconds if you do this, since the coils will be energized continuously if you do and are in danger of burning out. But it is a way to make sure you have the control rails and the switch-machine terminals wired correctly before you go to the trouble to build the power supply.
Bob, you are going to regret handling this post before long, if you aren't already!
I understand all the individual components, but how are they wired? Coming from the U Terminal, what does that wire have hooked up to it along this string? Same with the hot lead coming from either the transformer , where will this all go? What is hooked with what? I think what I need is an actual drawing with the part labeled, from the transformer to the parts, to the switches and any rails that are involved, including the insulated rails if we are still using them. Again, I apologize for my lack of knowledge in all of this, it's pretty new to me. Thanks, Jake
Jake, you can make the drawing you asked for, for yourself, from my diagram. Where you see ---, draw a wire. Where you see (resistor), draw a resistor; where you see (diode|), draw a diode; etc. If you need to know what they look like, go to the Radio Shack web site and look up the part numbers I gave you.
I will assume that you are using the ZW that you said you had, since I don't know anything about the Z4000. Start with (ground) on the left. That is your outside rails. Connect them to the U terminal of your ZW transformer. Connect the A, B, C, or D terminal of your transformer, whichever you want to use to power the slipswitch, to the anode of the diode, that is, the end without the stripe. Connect the cathode of the diode, that is, the end with the stripe, to one end of the resistor. Connect the other end of the resistor to the + end (probably unmarked) of the capacitor. Connect the - end (probably marked with a minus sign) of the capacitor to ground, that is again, your outside rails.
The + end of the capacitor is the power supply, V, for your slipswitch. Connect it to the common terminal (probably the middle one) of both switch machines.
Make a control rail by insulating a section of outside rail in each track leg attached to the slipswitch. Connect one control rail to one of the non-common terminals of one switch machine. Connect that same terminal to the corresponding terminal of the other switch machine. Connect that to the control rail diagonally opposite the first one. Then do the same with the two control rails and switch-machine terminals that you have not already connected to anything.
I don't have any way to draw this beyond what I have done already. If someone else can understand it and post a picture for Jake, please go for it.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month