FASTRACK OR MTH

[Anonymous]

Have a new Lionel train set with Fastrack should I wait for more Fastrack to come out so I can expand my layout or should I switch to another style of track like MTH Realtrack? Lionel will not say when more Fastrack and accessories are coming.

[Bob Keller]

It all really depends on what "look" you want your layout to have, and how quickly you want to get a layout going.

Both are fine track systems, though the Lionel track sections look a bit nicer with the brown ties and the plastic base that seems to have a bit more raised texture.

On the other hand, the MTH system has a ton of fitter and special sections that are available right now.

Flip a coin!

Bob Keller
Classic Toy Trains

[brianel027]

I agree with above that the FasTrack looks better and I would expect to see more new track offerings in Lionel 2004 catalog when it comes out around Feburary or March.
BUT, depending on how large a layout you are building, both FasTrack and RealTrack tend to fill up a small board rather fast due to the large molded roadbed: the 36 inch diameter of FasTrack is actually 40 inches when measured with roadbed.
IF you think you'll be changing the layout over time, or taking it apart, these new track systems will stand up better to being taken apart and put back together. Plus I don't image you would have to screw down every piece of track either.
Though my preference if you are only building a 4'x8' foot layout is to go with 027 or 0 tubular, or even the K-Line Snap Track. You can always use Gargraves Switches with 027 track too (allowing a little more variety of motive power to be run). The track without the molded base takes far less space and gives you more room for scenery and accessories. The 4'x8' layout in the current Classic Toy Train issue could have never been made in the same space with FasTrack. And you could save the FasTrack for the around the tree layout.
brianel

[Anonymous]

I am using Fastrack around my tree this year.
I was VERY disappointed with MTH track. It seemed to be ok with one use, then there are connection problems between the sections, in my experience. The connections with Fastrack seem to be better, and I've made several 'Living room Locals' over the past few months to test it (I was able to purchase four loops of track only at local train shows). Also, I like the positive mechanical connection between the track and transformer (LW), rather than the infrared remote control of MTH.
And, I notice that the track is louder than conventional tubular track, even with MTH stater sets running.
I'm anxiously waiting for Lionel to bring out switches. I thought that would have already been done, as a natural progression to the starter sets while the trains are still up around the tree. Still, my kids are each getting an accessory operating section under the tree, to be added later or even next year. And I REALLY wi***hey'd come out with the adapter sections for tubular track!
BTW, I've scrapped future plans to purchase Atlas track in favor of waiting for FASTRACK!

[Bob Keller]

The Fastrack does stay together pretty darned well. As silly as it might sound, to check how well it would stay connected for the review, I hung it in the air (off the handles of a transformer!) for two weeks and it stayed together. It handled gentle movement (as in being lifted to another spot on the floow) very well. While I'm sure you could shake it apart if you were enthusiastic enough, it did well enough for me for "casual use around the tree."

Bob Keller
Classic Toy Trains

[Anonymous]

I had thought about Fastrack this Christmas but decided to wait. Can my 027 postwar accessories work with Fastrack, especially those that needed a track connection?? The attraction of secure connections looks good but I don't want to scrap all of my 027 toys. Is there an article that tells the pros and cons or should I go with users' advice??

[FEClionel]

I have 2 questions about Lionel's new FASTRACK. First, how well does FASTRACK work with Magne-Traction? Second, when will operating track be availible so I can use my operating cars? I would love to switch to this setup but these two questions still make me hesitate from making the switch from old 027.

[Big_Boy_4005]

I have serious reservations about both systems, from what I've seen and heard. The integral roadbed is pretty, but with a traditional style you have a lot more flexibility.

Lionel says more pieces are on the way, but it could take a couple of years to catch up to the selection that most other systems already offer, even though Lionel officials assure us that it is coming soon.

Back in the mid 70's Lionel introduced another track system called TruTrack. It looked great in the catalog, but never made it to store shelves where I lived. The system was abandoned after only two seasons in the catalog. Up until 10 years ago I thought that it had never actually been made, until I saw a few pieces on a table at a TCA national convention.

When it comes to track systems Lionel's track record is very much against it. Most of us remember Super O, now that was an innovative system in its day! It actually had a pretty good run, but in the declining postwar years fell by the wayside, most likely a victim of cost cutting in the 60's, and not continued after the sale of the company to General Mills in 1970.

As for RealTrax I have seen reports posted here, of connection problems after a only a few uses.

Call me old fashioned, but for sectional track, I still favor the original O or 027 because you can cut and insulate the pieces. You can solder wires to the rails and solder the joints if you want to. Supply and variety is abundent in both styles, making the design possibilities limitless, and there is plenty of used track if you are on a budget.

I am most impressed with the Atlas system, and if I was going to start a small or medium sized layout would choose that system for the task.

Call me a cynic, but does this hobby need another track system, and a proprietary one at that? I think not! There is a reason why this "carpet track" comes in beginner sets, but the instant the trains get onto a table, that reason vanishes. Once you can ride a two wheeler, you throw the training wheels away.[soapbox]

[Anonymous]

GOT FASTRACK WITH MY hOBO SET AND I LOVE THE STUFF. THE ONLY THING I HAVE NOTICED IS THE TRACK IN SOME STARTER SETS HAS A DARKENED CENTER RAIL WHILE THE STUFF IN THE EXPANDER PACKS, AS WELL AS THE HALF STRAIGHTS CURRENTLY AVAILABLE HAVE A NATURAL METAL CENTER RAIL SO BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU BUY. I ALSO NOTICED MY CHESSIE TRACK SPEEDER(HAVE YOU SEEN ONE OF THESE?REALLY COOL AND A STEAL FOR THE PRICE) DOES NOT WANT TO RUN ON IT. IT DOES FINE ON MY TUBULAR TRACK SECONDARY LINE SO I'M WONDERING WHAT GIVES. HAPPY RAILROADING.

[Anonymous]

I purchased an oval of FasTrack, like it, and will stick with it. The road bed and wood ties all blend together for a good looking main line. For switch yards there is a transition section the allows the old style track to be connected to FasTrack. By the way, the new FasTrack will not have the black center rail.

Richard

[Anonymous]

Forgot to mention that my Lionel Magne-Traction sticks to the FasTrack, so I'll never return to brass track.

Richard

[Anonymous]

If anyone out there has one of the new Lionel track speeders and an oval of Fastrack try running the thing and let us know how it does. Mine is acting like the wheel flanges may be resting on the ties. Since these are both new products looks like an engineering foul-up to me. Glad I stiil have a place in my heart for traditional tubular track and built part of my layout with it! Cheers.

[brianel027]

Yep Luckycat, would could assume that either someone wasn't thinking or it's just the result of the company being in the U.S. and the assembly line being across the Pacific Ocean, but the initial FasTrack came with a black center rail. Someone realized it didn't look as good with the light grey roadbed, so the center rail went to silver.
Funny but with all the new track systems, the best stuff seems to be the stuff that's been around for years: tubular 0 and 027 along with Gargraves. The exception on the new stuff is the Atlas 0 track which is very nice looking, has a lot of variety available and seems to be pretty good... I've heard scant few complaints (other than expense) on the Atlas Track. But considering how nice the stuff is, I suppose it's worth the cost if you can afford it.
I really agree with Boy_Boy's quote "Call me a cynic, but does this hobby need another track system, and a proprietary one at that? I think not! There is a reason why this "carpet track" comes in beginner sets, but the instant the trains get onto a table, that reason vanishes."
Although I do see the logic of FasTrack as far as ease of assembly and "instant gratification," I would have voted for improvements and design modifications to 027 track: the Lionel 027 turnouts have been long overdue for improvement, both visual and operational. I know opinions differ, but to me the biggest problem with 027 track is the perception it's for non-scale "toy trains."
But they're all toy trains... I get a chuckle when I see the train mags and you see a photo of some scale prototypically detailed engine rolling past the 100% non-scale old standby Operating Gateman.
Hmmmmmm??? Guess I don't remember the good ol' days before evolution when real human beings actually were much taller and all blue in color. [:D]

brianel, Agent [8]27

[Big_Boy_4005]

Thanks for the "vote of confidence" on this one Brian, I think we are very much on the "same track" here. There are certain topics within this hobby that I feel strongly about, and this is one of them.

Personally, I am a Gargraves user, and have an investment so large, that it is no longer practical to consider switching. I'll be the first to admit that Gargraves isn't for everyone, especially beginners. Gargraves is ideal for people who are doing medium to large sized permanent layouts. Over the last 10 years I have developed my skills at working with this track, but prior to that I was a tubular track user all the way.

Here's a photo of what I am currently working on, and Gargraves track makes this possible.




This is a 10' diameter double track helix. The only other track on the market that could do this is Atlas. This one corner of my 38' x 46' trainroom.

[brianel027]

That's way cool Big_Boy! [:D] So let me ask a question off the "track" of the track thread. You mentioned elsewhere that you run a bunch of TMCC engines. How do they all work for you? There's no shortage here (and elsewhere) of threads on the topic of how the stuff doesn't work right, so might be a nice topic to hear from folks who have no problems with TMCC. A couple of my buddies who run TMCC have both had stuff back for repairs and have had stuff arrive DOA out of the box. [xx(]
The control does seem cool when it works, but I prefer less frustration on the train board... day to day real life does more than make up for it!!
brianel, Agent 027

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well Brian, to say that everything is perfect so far, would be slightly misleading.

All 10 diesels have been out of the box and run on the test loop, and seem to be functioning correctly. I have no steam engines and no plans to buy any. I also do not plan to do lash ups of multiple engines. If one engine is not powerful enough, I will wire in a connector and create a slave using a non TMCC equiped engine. I don't care about sound or smoke, and will keep that stuff turned off, for now at least. The electro couplers are interesting and will be used for switching.

My real interest in TMCC is the actual train control, the wireless remote and the serial port on the command station. All of the accessory functions are meaningless to me, as I own, and am planning to install a seperate computer system to deal with those issues.

I have been reading about problems that others have had, and have made mental notes to try to avoid those situations, including the use of wire mesh or other metal objects that could interfere with the signal.

I haven't got enough of the layout completed to try running trains there yet, but that should come in the next month or two. It will be a long process, and I am sure there will be some bugs, but if I test as I build, I should catch them early, before they become too difficult to isolate.

I'm not sure if anyone has ever tried using TMCC on a layout this large or complex, but I am committed to the project, and have a high degree of confidence that it will work. This is a major reason why I have chosen to avoid DCS, as it can only complicate the task at hand. Problems with individual pieces of equipment will be delt with as they arise, and I have no doubt that there will be some.

The layout is based on real railroads as they run through the Twin Cities, and can be represented schematicly by a very long main line with a loop on each end. It really is a model railroad, much more like what you would commonly see done in HO or N.

The layout is so large that conventional control for the number of engines I plan on running would be nearly impossible. Add to this the use of computerized traffic control, and signaling, and the project becomes even more interesting. I haven't found anyone who has used the serial port on the command station to control trains with a computer, but I did find a web site of a company that is developing software for that purpose. That was actually the first question I asked when I started in this forum six weeks ago, maybe you saw it. It was titled "Advanced Question for TMCC Users" and went unanswered.

I am not looking to replace human operators in this project, but rather suppliment them with the computer operating some trains remotely. I do still enjoy running trains, and have designed the layout with realistic industrial areas to provide swithcing challenges, and plan to use a car forwarding system to simulate the movement of material, just like what real railroads do.

Perhaps I am trying to build a bridge across the Atlantic Ocean, theoretically possible, but highly impracticle. A more down to earth example is the helix, I have no idea how many cars I will be able to pull up that thing with a single engine, I'm guessing 8 to 10 based on experience, but the true test is still to come.

This desire to move into "uncharted waters" stems from my previous experience in model railroading, and the need to do something challenging and unique. If you want to know more about me and my past, read my profile, and find the magazines I mentioned there. I also have a photo posted which is from 10 years ago, but with the exception of a few pounds and some grey hairs, I am pretty much the same.

A lot of the material for the new layout, is the recycled remnants of the old layout. I try never to waste anything, but perhaps its time that is being wasted, but time I have pleanty.

[dmestan]

I purchased the Pennsylvania Flier set for Christams this year. It was easy to assemble the track, but I the train seemed to slow when furthest from the terminal track, so I question conductivity. Also, it came with the black center rail. Lionel has since switched to silver center rail. I called them and they gave me a return authorization to replace the black rail with silver. The only cost to me will be the shipping. The only problem with the fasttrack is the availablity of other peices and the cost. I recently purchased ~40 ft of misc. O27 track (both 27 and 42 curves) and have a temporary setup on the floor in my home office. The train runs great without slowing at the far end, plus the O27 track is far cheaper. Being new to O guage, however, I found it difficult to assemble new track (I guess that's how new track is.) Also, I like the sound better on train running over the O27 track better than the fasttrack - probably due to the plastic base. I'll keep the fasttrack for use under the Christmas tree only. Another thing I don't like is that the ties on the fasttrack seem a bit small. If Lionel was trying to make a track that looked more prototypical, I think they could have done a better job.

[Anonymous]

How does the tmcc connect to the fast track? Does the TMCC Direct Lock-on work with fast track or only the traditional track? I want to build another small layout using the fasttrack as opposed to the tubular track. My main layout is tubular track. As alway the lionel website was not able to help and we turn to people outside of lionel.

[Big_Boy_4005]

TMCC connects the same to the Fastrack, as it does to regular track. If you are using the powerhouse lock on however, you will just have to rig the feeder wires to the terminals by hand, since there is no way to clip the lock on to the Fastrack. This is one of the amazing new featuers of the Fastrack system. Traditional methods don't work.

[Anonymous]

That stinks. So what do I do? Just jury rig it? It would seam to me they would have taken this into consideration when they designed it! Thanks for the tip.

[Anonymous]

Hello Derek,

No problem hooking up to FasTrack. The underside has 2 male 18 Gauge Quick Connectors. Radio Shack 64-3132 for $1.69 has 16 connectors (8 male and 8 female) , but only the female connectors can be used. They are all red color. I didn’t use them, because I was willing to pay a little extra for the Lionel wires with Red & Black connectors installed. The price that wire was $3.99 The FasTrack Terminal Section is available for $5.49, and that’s only $2.00 more than a Straight Section making the cost of the wire $2.00 instead of $3.99 when purchased separately.

I use my transformer on the corner of the table, and a curved terminal section is not available. What I did is use a small flat mill file (on edge) to file a square notch on the bottom road bed of a curved section for the wire to exit. The Lionel wires slip off of the male 18 gauge quick connectors, so I simply moved the wires to the curved section.

A straight section of tubular track could be used as a terminal strip for the TMCC Lock-on and a pigtail that goesover to the FasTrack Terminal Section.


Richard

[Big_Boy_4005]

Richard, you may have missed Derek's point, or else I did. If I understand correctly Derek has a powerhouse lock on for TMCC, and there is no way short of jury rigging that it can be used on the Fastrack. The only thing would be to get adapter tracks, which someone said they saw in a store, but I didn't see them in my local hobby store a week ago. As for the connectors that Richard mentioned, if you look a little you can find a much cheaper source than Radio Shack, and you can get the female ends only.

I am appalled at the $3.99 price Lionel has set for the hookup wires, when they cost about a dime to make. That is a higher percentage markup than a soda pop at a sporting event!!!!!

[Anonymous]

Okay, and thanks for pointing that out. I edited my message, and add this:

A straight section of tubular track could be used as a terminal strip for the TMCC Lock-on and a pigtail over to the FasTrack Terminal Section.

Richard

[Big_Boy_4005]

I'll go along with that Richard, though its somewhere between "jury rigging" and "Rube Goldberg", it would work. [:D][swg]

On the other hand, there is a chance that Derek was talking about something else, and I misunderstood. At this stage in the development of Fastrack, I can't imagine too many serious TMCC users trying it, as Fastrack seems to be aimed at beginners, and TMCC is not.

[FEClionel]

I believe Fastrack is geared towards all user even TMCC. Look at the last two Lionel catalogs, both in the TMCC section show TMCC trains on Fastrack. I think Lionel is committed for TMCC and Fastrack to be the future of the company and the hobby.

[Anonymous]

BigBoy, you're absolutly right about the markup. That's insane. I can go to Wendy's and get a meal cheaper than what they want for a little piece of wire.
I understand that this is all new tech, and that they probably need to make up for developing it, but if this is advertised as a family hobby, then they should atleast price it better.

I know several people that were discouraged from getting into this hobby on the count of the high cost.

[Big_Boy_4005]

FEC, I'll go along with Lionel's committment to TMCC, since it has been on the market for almost 10 years. They have even gotten Atlas and K-line to license TMCC and market their trains with factory installed TMCC receivers.

But I'm not as convinced when it comes to Fastrack, like I said before, the jury is still out, and may be out for years to come. A lot will depend on how well they handle the issues that have been raised here. It certainly seems like cost may be a major factor in in the minds of consumers.

Do we know how committed MTH is to Realtrax? Have enough people bought into that system, or will it be scrapped? These are business decisions that have to be made by manufacturers, based on consumer response.

There have been a number of similar track offerings in HO, which is most likely where MTH and Lionel got the idea in the first place. Marklin was the first to use a track with integral roadbed, though I'm not sure of the date, it goes back at least 35 years. However, to the best of my knowlege, none of these systems come close to the sales of non roadbed track.

[Anonymous]

trail_cam Thanks for the tip! That will be my next project after the bookcase I have been working on! I did get my trains on display tonght with http://www.aarailroad.com/ showcase express. What a great product! Anyway, I am going to have to go with a doorway layout. I switched from LGB because of size and now I want more layout stuff. Oh well. I will get some fasttrack next time at the train store. Derek

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone I did not see all of the page two posts until tonight. Why cant fast track be for the serious hobbyist? I never liked Lionel until I saw the fasttrack. I have always been an LGB, HO or N fan. Why? Because of the track. The NH Diesel TMCC set I got just thrilled me with the details and the TMCC. But it came with the old style track. After almost 35 years of hating Lionel I am a fan. Yes I even have grown to like the tubular track! My Christmas LGB display will most likely never be seen again. I am to the point where I can live with the old Lionel track. I needed some short pieces and cutting the tubular track was a breeze.

Derek
A guy with tons of LGB stuff that most likely will not see daylight for a long time.

[Big_Boy_4005]

Well Derek, I'm not saying that Fastrack can't be for the serious hobbiest. What I am saying is that as of this time there are critical elements missing from the system, that serious hobbiests are used to having available to them when using other track systems. Perhaps, in time the pieces necessary to do these things will become available. Please read this exchange between Amtrak Jack and myself. http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11743
Jack also has other topics discussing Fastrack that are worth reading, including his most recent in which he says that he has decided to wait before changing over.

I noticed in the new catalog that the Powerhouse lockon is shown without the actual lockon sticking out from the housing. The one that I have is designed to sit next to the track and be clipped to it directly. It is possible that they have a new version of this item with terminals and wires.