In 1957-58 Lionel came out with "Lady Lionel" or the Girls Train. This is common knowledge. There is what many call the "Boys set" which features a powder blue engine of which a few examples are known of. It is believed by many that this was to be a companion piece to the girls set. My theory is that it was a preproduction or prototype for the girls set as many of the cars predate 1957. If memory serves right the set was more than likely made around 54-55. It would also seem highly unlikely (even given Lionel's dip in marketing sence at this point in time) that Lionel would market a train like this to boys given the fact that the entire Lionel line was marketed to boys.
Agree, disagree. Let's get the ball rolling on this one.
Well it also happened in the early 90's !!!!
recent remakes 90's
First shot of remake (90's) I purchased from Richard Kugan Auction:
According to what I have read, there were two prototype sets made, that is all.
I knew one of the fellows that owned one, he being a former resident of my area. As I recall, he was a very honest and upright fellow, so I am sure his was a legitimate piece.
I'm making a girl's set for my daughter out of a 4-4-2 starter set that was given to us.
Jim
Modeling the Baltimore waterfront in HO scale
I didn't know that the prototype for the Boys Set predated the Girls Set. This makes a lot more sense than the popular theory surrounding it! I always thought that the idea of Lionel making a "Boys Set" as a companion to the Girls Set never made any sense at all because, as pointed out, Lionel trains already appealed to boys anyway.
But, with that in mind, I still wouldn't necessarily say that this was a prototype of a train targeted specifically to girls per say. I am aware that Lionel contemplated producing trains in "fashion colours" before the Girls Set was ever made. The September 1995 CTT shows some prototypes for 6465 LV hopper cars in pastel colours. The "Boys Set" would fit right in with them. Feminine appeal was probably one of the motives for considering these trains, which I assume eventually spawned the idea of the Girls Set. However, I think (and this is pure speculation on my part) that there was also the idea of making trains that would appeal to modern tastes by producing them in then-fashionable colours. Rather than going for realism, such trains would appeal to the consumer's sense of style. For comparison, look at the automobile industry at that time. In the 1950's, bright pastel colours became popular for cars. If such trains were produced, it would actually be going full circle back to the late 20's/30's when Lionel trains were bright and colourful with little regard given to accurate paint schemes. Of course, it's easy to see why these "fashionable" trains didn't get produced: one generally does not buy an electric train in the same way that one buys a couch, a lamp, a dress, a tie or wallpaper.
However, Lionel trains did indeed become more colourful in the mid-late 50's than they had been earlier in the postwar era. This certainly does reflect the times. In the 50's, colour and extravgence were the norm in consumer goods as it was a time of prosperity with people seeking to escape the austere existence of World War II.
I have often wondered about this myself but I guess I rationalized it by thinking that the baby blue loco was aimed at really young boys. Boys who were more intriqued by a toy's color than it's semi-protoypical qualities, (roadnames and such). I'm thinking boys from 4 years to maybe 6 years or so old.
Well, that's my thinking at least.
Mike S.
I'm still sticking to my guns and saying that the blue loco was most likely intended for the girls train. I mean think about it. The blue of the boys set kind of matches that of the girls set component cars. Sask_Tinplater did mke a good point refering to the colorfull tinplate trains of the prewar era. Remember though, this was done to appeal to the mothers buying a train for their child. The postwar era (and towards the end of the prewar era) was focused on realism, (or Lionel's version of realism.)
Lionel would make a mockup or prototype before making a product. It is most logical that this (boys train/blue2055) was this mockup. It shows that the idea for a girls set was kicked around for a few years. Eventually someone decided powder pink was better than Arex blue and it was a go (and a nogo in sales.) I just think this is the most logical explanation.
Bob Nelson
lionelsoni wrote:You can find the other girl's-train colors (except perhaps for pink) on real cars
Well, I can think of at lest one example of pink trains existing in real life. Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan owns a fleet of hopper cars which are painted in a deep bright pink. Over time, the colour eventually fades into a pale pink that could be compared to the "frosted pink" of the Girls Set. I see a lot of them out here.
njalb1 wrote:Well it also happened in the early 90's !!!! recent remakes 90's
Notice that the 90's set was not an exact match to the 50's version. Look at the added detail to the side of the 2037's shell. It's in that shaded boxed area in the middle. And the tender is not the same either. Not even close.
From Lionel-A Collector's Guide and History - Vol. 2 - McComas and Tuohy pp.69
Boy's Train: "Frank Petruzzo is the collector who owns the blue 2018 shown in the bottom row of pp. 68. Along with the blue Santa-Fe type tender and a turquoise hopper with red N&W lettering. This is part of an illogical "Boy's Train" set Lionel apparently planned to come out with in 1957 along with the Girl's train. A few eventually hit the street but not many...The entire Boy's Train consisted of the engine and tender, the hopper mentioned, plus a light tan boxcar with white doors and white MoPac lettering and the number 3494, a yellowish cream 6462 NYC gondola, and a 6417 round window caboose in light green with gold lettering. The number 3494 normally meant it was an operating boxcar but on the Boy's Train the boxcar had no operating mechanism.
Edward Barbret of St. Clair Shores, MI owns the whole set, except he has a black N&W hopper. He purchased the train from someone who had advertised a train for sale in the local paper."
From Volume 5 of the same series pp. 29 "Of all the blue-engined Boy's Trains (the book states the number of sets was perhaps as few as 3 or 4) known to exist, all are headed by a 2018 steamer except one, which is shown here. This is the only known blue 2055 ever made."
From the Greenberg guide to Lionel Trains - Vol 1 pp. 61 "Before Lionel created the Girls' Set as a targeted marketing to girls, it alos considered manufacturing a Boys' Set. A very limited number of sets were made and exhibited. Eventually these were given to several Lionel salesmen, who in turn sold them to their clients at a modest price. This particular set was sold to a Florida hobby shop owner who kept it for many years. It is one of only four sets known to be still in existence." The set illustrated has a blue 2018 and tender, #6462 in turquoise with red lettering an N&W non-operating 3456 in blue with white lettering, X6014 Baby Ruth in brown with white lettering and 6417 round window caboose in turquoise and red."
Personally, I don't have any problem believing Lionel would have come up with the idea of a Boy's train to go along with the idea of a Girl's Train. (I recall only too well the disgust which greeted the page of the 1957 catalog that illustrated the Girl's train. At the time my Mom said it best," My Dad was a mechanic on the UP and we girls know what trains look like. If I wanted a train I'd want one that really looked like a train.")
The notion that silly ideas from sales and marketing only started happening in the late 1990's is just not the case. They had silly ideas in the 50's and before that. As for the 2055 - true the catalog quit listing the production version in 1956 but the tooling was still there and there is no telling what kinds of parts and pieces were available for testing/mock ups, etc. Pictures of trains from the archives show all kinds of parts combinations. You also can't overlook the possibility that the same people who came up with the Girl's train may have wanted to have more than just color to differentiate the two sets since #2037 and #2018 are the same casting and would differ only in paint color. They could have easily put together a 2055 as a sample and when the idea fizzled just packed it and sold it - after all - it WAS just a toy.
As quoted above, the Greenberg reference does state " (Lionel) also considered manufacturing a Boys' Set." And the McComas book states "This is part of an illogical "Boy's Train" set Lionel apparently planned to come out with in 1957 along with the Girl's train." I'd recommend contacting the authors for their references.
Aside from those quotes, even if you wanted to assume the blue set was a variant of the girls set you are confronted with explaining away a major cultural code - pink and blue. The coded meaning of those two colors in the western world is/was well known and it would have been unthinkable in the 50's to have viewed those colors on the toys of the day as somehow gender neutral.
If you examine the pictures of the two sets there is even more evidence of an interest in "gender specific" sets. Just look at the color choices for the cars that went with them - the girls set is pastels and the colors are what one, at that time, would have thought of as being associated with girls. The cars in the boys set have a very different color scheme/hue.
"No childhood should be without a train!"
On page 55 of the November CTT there is a picture of one of the original sets. The set in the picture has a red N&W hopper with yellow lettering car unlike any of the others described. Jim's (njalb1) first post shows both the girls and boys sets that were produced in the 2001-2002 timeframe. The photos in that post showing the casting on top of the 1991 catalog show the set made at that time. As far as the tender shape goes the 1991 version has the 1130T semi streamline version that most of the 1957 version have (look at the catalog under the casting). The set made in 2001 has the 6026 Santa Fe style tender. It is somewhat hard to believe that the blue engine going to be marketed to boys when the rest of the line already was. Could it be that they started looking at pastel colors and decided that blue was more associated with boys as mentioned above?
Steve
LandN wrote: On page 55 of the November CTT there is a picture of one of the original sets. The set in the picture has a red N&W hopper with yellow lettering car unlike any of the others described. Jim's (njalb1) first post shows both the girls and boys sets that were produced in the 2001-2002 timeframe. The photos in that post showing the casting on top of the 1991 catalog show the set made at that time. As far as the tender shape goes the 1991 version has the 1130T semi streamline version that most of the 1957 version have (look at the catalog under the casting). The set made in 2001 has the 6026 Santa Fe style tender. It is somewhat hard to believe that the blue engine going to be marketed to boys when the rest of the line already was. Could it be that they started looking at pastel colors and decided that blue was more associated with boys as mentioned above? Steve
Thank you.
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