Perhaps what can be a fun survey. 1.) What do you consider to be Lionel's (any era) finest product.
2.) The worst product of Lionel's
I'll start it off.
1.) A tough decision but I will go with the early F3 (1948-1952). A rugged loco that was well detailed with scale proportionsa and could pull just about anyhing. This is my decision today, tommorow I might change my answer to the 2025, alluminum passenger cars or ec......
2.) Upon carefull consideration I will choose the recent offerings of the clear shelled F3 set. A high priced set that dosn't look good on the shelf and even worse on a layout. (my appologies to anyone who owns this.)
Honorable mention to a recent set offered painted for a company that makes knifes and has a boxed set of knifed on a flat car. You can't have kids playing with knifes :)
Any time fore 1956 was a darn good year for Lionel and it's products.
The worst Lionel product has to be FasTrack (at one time it was the CW-80, but it takes back seat to FasTrack).
Lionel collector, stuck in an N scaler's modelling space.
700E Hudson would be the finest, IMHO.
There are quite a few stinkers from various eras that I can think of. The CW-80 would definitely be near the top of that list...
- Clint
For track products I vote for fasttrack being the finest. The switches give me no problems. With the other switches from the old 3 rail I would have problems with derailments, engines stalling etc. I have not experienced this with any of my engines on the fasttrack switches.
Command control products.
Stinkers, MPC era.. I do own a set from this era and I like it, but it does not measure up to todays sets.
I have only been in 3 rail for about 1.5 years, (HO about 35 years) I really like my Lionmaster series locomotives, 1 Bigboy, 2 Challengers and the new Cab-forward, GREAT detail and will run on 0-31 curves WOO HOO!!!!
What I don't understand is the disdain for the CW-80, I LOVE IT. I have an original ZW (R windings) and a "NEW" ZW and several MTH Z-500,750, 1000s the CW-80 is the ONLY one with a near zero minimum voltage. My K-line Porters and RMT beeps can't be run at slow speeds with any of the other transformers, their minimum voltages are too high, 0-6 or 8 volts and they take off like a rocket. Even some of my larger locomotives will start on a low enough voltage that the other transformers are simply too frustrating to run them on. And the "NEW" ZW the handles are so stiff that if it is not bolted down I have to use one hand on the throttle and hold the ZW down with the other. The original ZW does have nice smooth light throttles, but the CW-80 is the smoooothest throttle of any of them that I have. WHY all the HATE for the CW-80? My only complaint with it is that Proto-2 control systems don't like it ( MTH is familiar with this issue) So why do so many not like the CW-80s?
Doug.
May your flanges always stay BETWEEN the rails
I think the best is the traimaster FM
I can't get into the tinplate stuff
ed
"WHY all the HATE for the CW-80?"
-----------
Don't get me started on that. Too many reasons to list, although I do like the outward appearance of the thing.
As for FasTrack: One of the better innovations released by Lionel in the modern era (even though I'm currently using Atlas track myself).
Different strokes for different folks, which is always the case in this hobby.
RR Redneck wrote: The worst Lionel product has to be FasTrack (at one time it was the CW-80, but it takes back seat to FasTrack).
You get my vote as the biggest *** on this forum. Joe
Best product?
Of the products I own, it is a close call between the post war dual motored f3's and the early 726. Any Lionel engine made in the late 40's have shown to be the very best runners. Of course tubular track gets the lifetime achievement award.
Worst product - that stuff that Girly Men use - FasTrack.
From my limited O27 experience:
I like my New Haven #2350 and Santa Fe F3 #2353
I am not a Fastrack fan.
(I have had no problems with the CW80)
Thanks for asking.
Allan Miller wrote: "WHY all the HATE for the CW-80?" ----------- Don't get me started on that. Too many reasons to list, although I do like the outward appearance of the thing. As for FasTrack: One of the better innovations released by Lionel in the modern era (even though I'm currently using Atlas track myself).Different strokes for different folks, which is always the case in this hobby.
I am curious, If the list is so long, how about a short list of say 3-5 of the most serious problems you find in the CW-80. I have read other posts saying how HORRIBLE the CW-80 is, but no one ever cites a reason why they feel that way (Mike Wolfe of MTH, I could understand not liking it) No it is not a ZW (which I do have 2 of them, 1 original, 1 "new" ) but for what it is, it is a great little transformer, like I said in my earlier post, NONE of my other transformers will run the smaller locomotives at a slow speed, INCLUDEING either one of my ZWs.
As far as you "liking the looks of the thing" I do agree with you on this point, I think that Lionel did a nice job of keeping the 50s look with this. Aside from the LOUSY minimum voltage of MTH's Z-series transformers, I cant stand their appearance, they look like something out of a cheap HO starter set, and I ABSOLUTELY HATE the external power brick( Yes I know that the "NEW" ZWs are guilty of this crime too)
Well I am going to Start another thread on this, so that this one doesn't end up too far off topic. But I really would like to hear WHY so many people seem to hate this transformer so much, I LIKE it
Doug
trainsandmusic wrote: Perhaps what can be a fun survey. 1.) What do you consider to be Lionel's (any era) finest product. 2.) The worst product of Lionel's ...
...
Since this is a "fun" survey, my favorite is the missile launcher / exploding boxcar.
Least favorite has to be the cheap stuff from the late 70's.
Enjoy
Paul
My best Lionel product as far a appearance and performance are concerened is my early 2025. As Frank noted above these Late 40s engines are a joy to run and watch.
Worst is tough to say. Because I stay pretty clear from expensive, modern, electronic laden equipment, I don't have anything of Lionel's that junk or a disappointment. Fastrack isn't my cup of tea but I certainly don't think it's the worst.
If we could step into another manufacturer here and go slightly off topic, I would have to say the most tasteless product(s) ever offered were K-Line's Osama and Bush stuff. Extremely tacky and in very bad taste IMHO.
Mike S.
"If we could step into another manufacturer here and go slightly off topic, I would have to say the most tasteless product(s) ever offered were K-Line's Osama and Bush stuff. Extremely tacky and in very bad taste IMHO."
I second that.
Best product is fastrack -finally got lionel trackage out of 1915.
Worst product would be DC powered steam engines.
Best product: '50, '51 and 52 Anniversary ALCo's 2023. Unbelievable runners. I've almost worn the wheels off my set and they run like the best new stuff after a good lube and warm-up. Extremely low voltage response and "creepability" and magnetraction drive truck offers excellent pulling power. very fast too if needed.
Worst: all that plastic crap from the late '70's. Hard to cite a bad Lionel product tho.
Roland
USNRol wrote: Worst: all that plastic crap from the late '70's. Hard to cite a bad Lionel product tho.Roland
I like that plastic "crap" from the 70's! Lionel created "sound of steam", and the first model ever (not a reissue) of the U36B!!
Alot of good things came from lionel during the 70's. Helping make up for the 60's.
P.S. The 70's era trains are from my childhood, so I can connect with that "crap".
Anyway...
Best product in my oppinion is the Polar Express only because I saw it in their catalog and LOVED it. I got it for my birthday and now I'm train crazy!!
There is no bad Lionel product!!
Best: the original 027 GG1.
Worst: The CW-80 transformer - trying to get the thing to work in my first train set almost drove me out of the hobby - it never dawned on me that it might be defective...
I love the MPC-era stuff too - reminders of my childhood I guess just like my slightly-more-mature fellow forumites who love the post-war stuff.
Doug Murphy 'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers...' Henry V.
BEST= TMCC. Love it matched up with the newer ZW with 180 watt blocks it great to run conventional as well as Command engines with the Cab1.
WORST= Smoke units in all there starter set engines, simply burn out way to early.
laz57
The pre-Korean war 675 is probably the smoothest running steam engine I've ever seen. Turn the E-unit off and it's dead silent save for the smoke unit plunger and the occasional clank from the side rods. All of the worm-driven engines, steam or diesel, sound like coffee grinders in comparison.
That of course isn't to imply that worm-driven engines aren't good runners, because they are, but the 675 is just in a completely different class as far smooth, silent running.
For worst, I'd probably have to go with the Gary Moreau era O-31 switches. They were a great concept, with the detachable straight or curves, but horribly executed with poor part quality and cheap construction. O22s, postwar or new production, beat them any day.
My best Lionel product - Modern, Scale size Cab Forward, 4094. Love the quality, features, sound, appearance everything.
My worst Lionel product - Modern, Scale size Cab Forward, 4094. Hate relationship due to the O72, as a result new train room, new layout. AND LOTS of COSTS.
Whose fault - Mine ! So anxious to get "back" in the hobby didn't check track size prior to purchase just had to have it. Long term will be a great turning point.
Don
Best: Prewar Standard Gauge. You can select just about any train you want: They were all great. (Second favorite: MPC. Everything O27 should be.)
Worst: Command Control. Yep, Command Control. The reason is simple: Vast addition to expense and complexity. The control system should not cost more than the trains, and one should not have to be a EE or a Computer Scientist to operate toy trains. Trans should respond to throttle levers, not computer keyboards and (Yuk!!) remotes! (Extra to MTH for making another control system that's even more expensive and complex.)
I realize these sentiments immediately classify me as some kind of Neanderthal, but I didn't come back to O gauge for sophistication but for relaxation.
Some interesting choices here. I don't understand the fierce reactions to Fastrack. I really liked having a loop of that around my Christmas tree this past year. I like tubular on my layout and it's what I'll probably always use, but Fastrack has its uses.
My vote for the best... The Blue Comet. It's an icon. It's so iconic that Lionel's archrival uses it on its logo.
Worst... Take your pick of any one of Lionel's lemon switches over the years. I can't think of anything that's more maddening than a switch that always derails your favorite train. Except maybe a switch that derails your favorite train sometimes but not quite always--nobody likes a tease.
In my opinion:
Best? Tie between the prewar scale hudson and the first postwar F-3s.
Worst? There was a dog of a 4-8-4 that Lionel made back about 1990. The MPC era was a mixed bag. Some real jewels and some junk too.
Best transformer: post war ZW's
Best locomotive:pre war 226E
Worst transformer: CW-80 a.k.a. the can't work 80!
Worst switchs of all time: 6-23011 & 23010, defectiveness built in!!! The thing finds new ways to go bonkers on you!
Worst locomotive : the Illinois Central GP-7(made about 12 years ago, single motor), won't pull more than two cars.
Lee F.
Phillyreading wrote: Worst locomotive : the Illinois Central GP-7(made about 12 years ago, single motor), won't pull more than two cars
Are you refering to the 8030? If so it is actually going on 37 years old, (made in 1970-71) I rather like this engine. It was a good attempt to keep the Lionel line going.
trainsandmusic wrote: Phillyreading wrote: Worst locomotive : the Illinois Central GP-7(made about 12 years ago, single motor), won't pull more than two cars Are you refering to the 8030? If so it is actually going on 37 years old, (made in 1970-71) I rather like this engine. It was a good attempt to keep the Lionel line going.
It will also pull more than two cars (or at least my son's will).
ben10ben wrote: The pre-Korean war 675 is probably the smoothest running steam engine I've ever seen. Turn the E-unit off and it's dead silent save for the smoke unit plunger and the occasional clank from the side rods. All of the worm-driven engines, steam or diesel, sound like coffee grinders in comparison.That of course isn't to imply that worm-driven engines aren't good runners, because they are, but the 675 is just in a completely different class as far smooth, silent running. For worst, I'd probably have to go with the Gary Moreau era O-31 switches. They were a great concept, with the detachable straight or curves, but horribly executed with poor part quality and cheap construction. O22s, postwar or new production, beat them any day.
Yes Ben, I mentioned earlier here that I love my early 2025 (same engine). They are so smooth and silent.
Mike S
Not to sound like a broken record, but...
The "Moreau Era" O-31 switches were designed, tooled, and built in the late Kughn Era. They were mostly delivered in the early Moreau Era. Why Gary gets the heat for this when he was still making knives and spoons at the time is really quite beyond me!
Jon
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.
Get the Classic Toy Trains newsletter delivered to your inbox twice a month