Securing homasote - screw it down or glue it down?

[Birds]

What would people recommend as a good, long lasting way to secure homasote to the decking of a permanent layout?

The last small layout I did was in the early 1990s.  I glued the homasote down with Elmer's wood glue, and then screwed the homasote to the decking in the corners.  Years later the glue has held in most (but not all) the spots, but the screws are still very secure.

Just curious what those with more experience have found over time.

Thanks,

Chris 

[wrmcclellan]

Birds,

Homosote is essentially pressed paper and very porous. So when you use a water based glue like Elmers, the water is quickly absorbed.

Use a construction adhesive like Liquid Nails if you are going to glue it down.

[underworld]

Liquid Nails is truly great stuff.... haven't used it for train stuff but for just about everything else.

 

underworld

[Anonymous]

I just put my homasote down on Friday night.  I used Liquid Nails, and then put a few screws around the edges to hold it down while it dried.  It was rock solid by Saturday morning.  I am going to leave the screws in just to be safe, but I am sure I could remove them without causing any problems.  Good Luck.

SK

[chuck]

If you know you won't be taking it up, Liquid nails or some other construction adheasive is great, BUT, it's not coming up.  If you want to make changes, use screws to attach the homasote to the base.  To maintain sound isolation, any screws you use to attach stuff to the Homasote should not penetrate down into the wood table top.

[3railguy]

I would advise that constrution adhesive be spread flat and thin with a spatula..thoroughly. Because homasote has little shear strength, Beads of adhesive can cause mini hills and valleys on the homasote surface. This can lead to faulty trackwork.

I do not like spreading construction adhesive because it is rather thick and messy. Heating it to 125 degrees helps. I had no problems using Elmers type glue. I troweled it on thin, covering the entire surface and weighted it with books. No screws and nails were used.

I do not like using screws or nails. Screws or nails can cause the forementioned hills and valleys too as they concentrate pressure deforming the homasote. Also, murphys law states that track screws land where the homasote screw heads are.

Chuck is right about track screws. Don't drive through the homasote and into the wood. You only defeat the purpose of homasote as they transmit noise.

[Birds]

Thanks guys!

I appreciate the suggestion about spreading the adhesive as opposed to doing beads of it. 

So construction adhesive it is!

Chris 

[laz 57]

I glued half my layout and screwed the other half.  No difference.

laz57

[CNJfan]

Chris,

I used Liquid Nails to glue the Homasote to the plywood and then screwed it down to pull the Homasote tight to the plywood. After two days, I removed the screws. The Liquid Nails will hold much better and longer than glue. I had read that removing the screws is recommended as not to transfer any unnecessary sound through the Homasote to the plywood. Wether that's true or not i'm not sure, but I removed the screws anyway.

Hope this helps,

Tim C.

[traindaddy1]

Chris: I use screws, mainly because I have found it easier to remove. (I am never satisfied with my layouts and enjoy just building new ones. I use the stuff over and over.) That being said, for a more permanent layout, adhesive is probably the way to go.

PS. Thanks for your E-Mail about passenger trains.

[Roger Bielen]

My all-purpose adhesive when I built my layout was the stuff used for glueing on vinyl baseboard.  Comes in water or solvent based.  I used a notched trowel the same as putting down a floor.

[anjdevil2]

I used the Liquid Nails with 1/2 foam board.  It set up within minutes and ready to use.  Also used it to attach my LifeLike grass.  Really like it.  I attached the Fastrack with screws.  Widend the holes just enough and sunk the screws injust enough so the track is held in, but "floats" so that the sound dosen't transmit to the board.

  

[msacco]

I used Carpenters glue in the gallon jug and a paint roller. Screwed around the edges and removed when dry. I know homasote is paper based but the glue worked well.

 

MIke S.

[baltimoretrainworks]

I used Liquid Nails to glue my Homasote down this time. My first try was with Elmers and it worked OK but the moisture in it caused the plywood base to warp slightly and the Homasote to swell a little. When the glue dried it held that slight warping in place and nothing I did would flatten it.

[3railguy]

When the glue dried it held that slight warping in place and nothing I did would flatten it.

Sounds like construction adhesive is the way to go. I figured it would cause slight hills and valleys knowing the consistency. I did not experience any warping with white glue but I did weight it down with books...every square inch.

[Birds]

Thanks for what everyone has shared.

I purchased the homasote yesterday.  It was difficult to find.  Several of the large chain hardware stores had no idea what I was talking about.  One building supply place recently changed to ordering it on an as needed basis.  I finally found a building supply place that had it in stock.

Went to a large chain hardware store last night to get insulation and some duct work (much farther from home) and what do I find... a stack of homasote.

Maybe it's a corporate prank so the customer never knows where to find something.  This way the customer eventually visits all the stores in the country.

Chris 

[wchrisyoung]

I glued my homosote using liquid nail.   Screws were used to secure the homosote until the liquid nail set.    I removed the screws afterwards.

 Chris

[c50truck]

Coming in here late, but I never gave it a thought to secure the homasote, (AKA, building board, sound board, brown board, and even as I noticed at a discount big box recently, pin cushion board), down to the plywood deck.

I'm at the beginning stages of building my layout, and I figured there would be enough wires, etc running through it to hold it down. I had also recently ripped a clear 1x6 with a slight bevel to wrap around the layout table for a finished edge. This was to hide the rough edges of the plywood and homasote, and 1x4's. That addition of the trim board, with wires , etc., I hope will hold it in place.

Rod L

 

[jefelectric]

Coming in here late, but I never gave it a thought to secure the homasote, (AKA, building board, sound board, brown board, and even as I noticed at a discount big box recently, pin cushion board), down to the plywood deck.

I'm at the beginning stages of building my layout, and I figured there would be enough wires, etc running through it to hold it down. I had also recently ripped a clear 1x6 with a slight bevel to wrap around the layout table for a finished edge. This was to hide the rough edges of the plywood and homasote, and 1x4's. That addition of the trim board, with wires , etc., I hope will hold it in place.

Rod L

The main problem with not fastening it down is that if you have the least bit of mosture, it will absorb it and then warp.

[c50truck]

Coming in here late, but I never gave it a thought to secure the homasote, (AKA, building board, sound board, brown board, and even as I noticed at a discount big box recently, pin cushion board), down to the plywood deck.

I'm at the beginning stages of building my layout, and I figured there would be enough wires, etc running through it to hold it down. I had also recently ripped a clear 1x6 with a slight bevel to wrap around the layout table for a finished edge. This was to hide the rough edges of the plywood and homasote, and 1x4's. That addition of the trim board, with wires , etc., I hope will hold it in place.

Rod L

The main problem with not fastening it down is that if you have the least bit of mosture, it will absorb it and then warp.

John,

I guess I dodged a bullet. I'm in Eastern Washington. We don't know what humidity, or moisture is unless we apply it.

Rod L.

 

 

 

[Birds]

The homasote it cut to size and laying on the layout, but this stuff is not flat!!  (It looked flat when it came out on a fork lift and looked flat in the back of the truck - I even had them send the first lot back because it was noticeably goofed up!)

Is it possible for homasote to warp?  Can it be flattened out, or did I just get some bad product?

There are also some spots that are thicker than others.  How do people work with this to make sure it is all the same height?

Chris 

[c50truck]

The homasote it cut to size and laying on the layout, but this stuff is not flat!!  (It looked flat when it came out on a fork lift and looked flat in the back of the truck - I even had them send the first lot back because it was noticeably goofed up!)

Is it possible for homasote to warp?  Can it be flattened out, or did I just get some bad product?

There are also some spots that are thicker than others.  How do people work with this to make sure it is all the same height?

Chris 

 

Chris,

All building products, Ie. homasote, paneling, plywood, T&G, etc. should be allowed to acclimate to it's enviroment before use. In otherwords, store the product on it's side in the building, or room, it will be used in for a few days. A week is better. Gives the material time to adjust, (shrink, swell), to it's new enviroment.

Haven said that, Improperly stored products may never lay right with out a little persuasion.

Rod L.

 

 

 

[mickey4479]

Chris: I use screws, mainly because I have found it easier to remove. (I am never satisfied with my layouts and enjoy just building new ones. I use the stuff over and over.) That being said, for a more permanent layout, adhesive is probably the way to go.

I agree with you Traindaddy.  If you have the slightest doubt about making a change, use screws.  I used sheet rock screws and its secure and no mess.

[Anonymous]

I have 4 Home Depots in my area, and only 1 of the 4 had Homasote.  Naturally it was the 4th store I checked, and not the 1st.  I didn't have a problem with the sheets being warped or wavy.  I let them sit flat in the basement overnight, and they were still good the next day so installation proceeded.  I used Liquid Nails with a few screws to hold down the edges and joints.  Good luck with your install.

SK

[chuck]

The product is intended to be used for sound deadening and has no structural integrity.  It can also absorb a lot of moisture.  If you want to glue it down, use heavy weights unitl the glue sets.  If you use screws, flip it around to use the smallest number that will attach it with minimum warpage.

[mickey4479]

Birds:  I have found homasote in my area only a few times at home depot.  I had to go to a full line lumber company to locate more, but it was too expensive for my budget.  However, while I was there, I saw another sound deadening board product that is lighter than homasote, and it is the same thickness.  It has a rather course texture, almost like horse hair.  It was half the price and worked well for me.  I bought 2 or 3 (4 X 8) sheets.  If I recall, they called it sound board or something like that.  Because it was not as dense as homasote, it was easier to cut for my sub roadbed.  Again, the screws worked well for me.

[Anonymous]

I don't like the smell homosote has. anything else to use? I need something, too noisy.

[Birds]

First a homasote update.  I have continued to let the homasote sheets "acclimate" and have flipped them.  They seem to have flattened out a bit, but still need to be a bit flatter, so I'll give it a bit more time. 

I tried a comparison tonight of a 2' x 4' piece of acoustical ceiling tile that is 1/2" thick versus 1/2" thick homasote.

In terms of noise deadening the ceiling tile is wonderful when track was laid on the white "stippled" side (but it was louder when the track was laid on the back side).  I think it beats the homasote in absorbing sound.  That makes sense because according to the specifications, acoustical ceiling tiles have a "Noise Reduction Coefficient" of .50-.60  Homasote has a NRC of .20  It's a difference that was noticeable to me.

The homasote seems to win in the "tightly holding screws for securing the track" category.  Homasote is more dense and this equates to gripping screws better than acoustical tile.

The ceiling tile gripped #6 screws, but one needs to use screws longer than 1/2" inch or they work themselves loose if you wiggle the track.

Acoutical ceiling tile is more brittle than homasote, and it contains items such as clay, slag wool, starch, cellulose, perlite, and crystalline silica.  This may be the reason it doesn't grip screws as well as homasote.  Homasote is just pressed paper so it is more dense.

In terms of cost, acoustical ceiling tile wins.  Eight 2' x 4' pieces costs around $28-$30 for a product that can withstand 90% relative humidty without sagging when hanging in ceiling frames.  So if used on a flat table surface, I imagine it would be pretty good in terms of dimensional stability if you have to deal with humidity.

Chris

[csxt30]

I don't like the smell homosote has. anything else to use? I need something, too noisy.

I wonder if you could elaborate on this smell you mention ? Can you possibly describe it ?  My Dad had my trains on homosote back in the 50s when I was a kid. I have used it for trains & building model airplanes on & off for the past 30 some years & I've never ever noticed it haveing any sort of smell, other than when I got a new sheet it might smell new. Just never heard that one before.

Thanks, John  

[Jumijo]

I don't like the smell homosote has. anything else to use? I need something, too noisy.

Does it smell Homosotey?