Bob:
Before you get swamped with opinions, it would be very helpful to have a better idea of what you are trying to accomplish (are you re-creating a childhood layout or building a scale empire, is the layout for serious operation or just occasional use, are you going to go with a lot of scenery or just run track through accesories?), the level of skill you are comfortable with, and whether cost is a concern.
We used to have a cartoon in the office with a picture of an old tire hanging by a single rope from the limb of a tree with the caption "What the user wanted," and a second picture of a very complicated swing set and water slide with the caption "what the engineers designed." There was also a third picture, "what production delivered, two years late, and way over budget" that was somewhat less flattering.
A little more information from you would really help you get some value from the folks in the forum.
Good lock!
Mike
Depends what you can afford and how big is your layout going to be. Fastrac or Realtrack may look nice but is expensive compared to regular tubular track. Gargraves track looks nice but is a bit differant to work with besides how it looks, all three rails in Gargraves are insulated from each other. Then there is Atlas's track system, don't know anything so no comment. Williams Trains is now selling track similar to Lionel's tubular track.
Gargraves track has flexible sections in 37.25 inch size, the switch machines for Gargraves are very low profile compared to Lionel or MTH switches in O gauge track which means very little hang-ups at switches. Also Gargraves track has more curve sizes than most companies. Only draw back is that insulating pins for Gargraves are hard to get.
Fastrac has a minimum radius of 36 inches, next size is 48 inches, compared to Realtrack that is 31 inch radius. Both track systems(Realtack & Fastrac) are difficult to cut the track for sizing.
Personally I like tubular or Gargraves track.
Lee F.
I'll add a little more. Realtrack and Fatrack have a plastic roadbed and rail ties that looks more realistic than tubular track of Lionel (Both standard "high rail" and 027 profile), but you can still ballast the Lionel track and make it look very good. You will probably want to set the tube track on some sort of roadbed to raise it up some before you do.
It seems that realtrack does better once it it's attached to the bench. When I just set up a test oval, the rails don't line up perfectly and they click, and the corners tend to pull up on the outside edges just slightly. I could probably bend it the oppsite way and the track would sit flat once again. Once set up, realtrack is super quiet.
Tube track sits flat, although you have to fight with taking out pins when trying to use a corner piece in the opposite direction. Getting those pins out can be difficult, and unless the piece is brand new, a track section can fall apart if you try to move the whole track. This won't be an issue once it's all tacked down, and you can squeeze the tube a little with some pliers to get them to hold the pins tightly again. You need to do this to get good power flow through the track. You can eliminate this by just soldering wire directly to the side of the rails of the tube track. Most people do this every couple of feet on perminant tracks. You can use push on connectors on fasttrack and realtrack instead of soldering. That's pretty nice.
Tube track is cheap. It's close to three times cheaper, but if you want to put road bed down, and ballast, it's probably close to a wash. Some people do ballast over realtrack and fastrack too, and it looks absolutely great.
I like the sound of wheels on tubular rails, but that's a personal preference.
Gargraves track looks awesome, but it isn't something I can just go to my LHS and pick up. I based what I used on what I could get locally. Everyone has some 027 track to buy. I didn't know the problems with the 027 switches though, and 027 can only be purchased in 27, 42, and 54" curves. They only make 27 and 42 switches. Standard Lionel track pieces and switches can be mated up with 027 profile, but the pins need to be taken out of the standard track and 027 profile pins need to be inserted in that track. It's all easily doable.
There is no perfect track. Price, minimum curve radius, looks, ease of installation, quality of switches, and even noise are all considerations. There are even special pieces that allow you to go from one manufacture to the next, so anything is really possible.
Wes
It is the Fastrack diameter, not the radius, that is 36 or 48 inches. Unlike other track systems, this diameter is measured to the center rails.
O27 is available in 27, 34, 42, 54, and 72-inch nominal diameters. Thirty-four-inch turnouts are also available.
Bob Nelson
I think every manufacturer measured in diameter, not radius. My slip up.
Lionel 027 profile is only available in 027 and 042. Lionel 027 profile curves are only available in 27, 42, and 54" diameter sections now. There are other companies out there that make 027, but I haven't found any at my LHS. I think Marx is one of them.
I'm even more interested in the turnouts that work with 027 profile. I have two of the lionel 027 turnouts in the box still, and many opinions are that they aren't very good. The standard gauge turnouts from Lionel are very expensive, especially for the 072.
I'm sure anything can be adapted to fit. I like to go to a store and buy it off the shelf. I'm an inpulse buyer!
I haven't seen Lionel O27 turnouts criticized for their quality. They do have some design limitations:
The switch machines are tall enough and close enough to the track to prevent use with longer pieces of equipment. You can mitigate this problem to an extent by removing the (not at all prototypical) flag arrangements from the top of the machines and by arranging for cars and locomotives to swing over the switch machines. I have shimmed some passenger cars very slightly and have removed the fuel tank from my Trainmaster for this purpose.
The switch machine is designed to be powered from the track only. There is an electrical modification that gets around this by operating with DC by capacitor discharge.
They do not provide an indication of switch position to the controller.
Atlas O is by far the most realistic looking track available. Atlas ties are sized ( length and width ) and spaced to scale. It's rail height is taller than scale to accomodate the typical wide flanges found on 3 rail equipment.
Bruce Webster
Wes Whitmore wrote:I'm even more interested in the turnouts that work with 027 profile. I have two of the lionel 027 turnouts in the box still, and many opinions are that they aren't very good. The standard gauge turnouts from Lionel are very expensive, especially for the 072. I'm sure anything can be adapted to fit. I like to go to a store and buy it off the shelf. I'm an inpulse buyer!Wes
The more recent K-line 027 switches have provision for separate power and are very low profile. They are GREAT but are hard to find. I hope Lionel continues to make them.
Jim H
After seeing the MTH switches for the first time, I can see where the green light/red light indicator is very well liked.
I will see if there is K-line track in their new catalog.
Depends on your definition of "nice".
For a large realistiic layout, Gargraves flex and Ross switches is a good choice.
For a modern toyish layout, Lionel Fastrack is a good choice.
For a traditional toyish layout, Lionel 027 or 031 tubular track is a good choice.
I would get some books on toy train layouts and some issues of CTT magazine to ponder over. They feature many different brands and styles of track.
Just got through building a layout with Realtrax. Looks good and runs good. Switches are great. Especially the moveable switch machines [can put them on either side]. I've got one switch out of 16 that is bad. Now when it cames to putting the track together, it is a B--ch. Some will snap together and then other sections will not go together [a press could not get them together]. Connectivity can be a problem. You have to be sure that the little copper arched "pins" [not really pins but thin blades in "U"] do not bend and not make contact. Once together, outstanding. Fasttrac is not as good looking. Goes together real well. Some say very nosiey. 6 is one and half a dozen is another. Have used wide 027 grade Lionel switches. Not good. Switch machine hits on cars and engines rated to turn on tighter curves. Also gives TMCC a fit. If you are running command, you need to modify from track power to aux power. I know from experience.
God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of the NRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified
Really does depend on what you want to do. I think everyone has posted lots of useful information about the different track. I use GarGraves, but my trains are gauge 1 3-rail so I don't have a lot of options. I also have some original Marklin and Bing track and some Lionel 2-rail converted to 3-rail....kind of a Frankenstein track system!!! I really do like the GarGraves....a 37 inch section is only $5.oo...the O gauge is a little cheaper.
underworld
RIP Chewy - best dog I ever had.
Spongebob Almost forgot....living in a pineapple under the sea could limit your
selection a bit!!!
You should use Atlas track, of course! Why settle for anything else?
Just my opinion!
Just be careful with their turnouts. If you are going to be using MTH DCS, you may want to check the OGR boards for some preliminary planning. Otherwise, I think that Atlas track is outstanding!
Regards,
John O
I have seen a couple of Atlas switches and will say this much about them "You need a lot of space for Atlas 072 switches!" Otherwize very nice looking.
027 style switches by Lionel limit the size of a passenger car and locomotive that you can run!
GarGraves switch machines are low enuff that most trains will pass right over the switch machine with no problems, almost look like H.O. switches in detail. GarGraves track comes in regular or stainless steel and plastic or wooden ties, I use stainless steel here in south Florida. Another thing about GarGraves is that it is easier to cut to fit and only needs adapter pins to mate to Lionel tubular track 0 or 027.
Fastrac may look nicer but you are limited to two or three curve sizes and two switch sizes and the track is difficult to get an exact fit.
steinmike wrote:Bob:Before you get swamped with opinions, it would be very helpful to have a better idea of what you are trying to accomplish (are you re-creating a childhood layout or building a scale empire, is the layout for serious operation or just occasional use, are you going to go with a lot of scenery or just run track through accesories?), the level of skill you are comfortable with, and whether cost is a concern.A little more information from you would really help you get some value from the folks in the forum.Good luck!Mike
Good luck!
What happened to SpongeBob?
Tis the season for the Train Shows...check http://www.trains.com/trc/community/events/
and see if there is one near you, and see this stuff in action...especially at a World's Greatest Hobby show.
Also, check the recommendations of engine and cars that you are planning to use, the larger ones need larger diameter curves, this will inflence layout, most will run on 31-inch (tubular), and 36-inch (fastrack).
Kurt
Blueberryhill RR wrote:And last but not least....there is tubular. Lionel 031 " 0 " guage and the old PW 022 switches. Goes together ok, conducts power good, and looks like old fashioned Toy Train track. It's a thought...................
and a My-T-Fine thought at that!
I am faced with the same dilemma! I am on my 3rd layout. My first was simple but fairly large: 12 x 24 above a pool table suspended from the ceiling. My second was equal in size but detailed, with an inner and outer loop and a few reversing loops, sidings and a switch yard. Both used 0-27, 0-42 curves and 0-42 switches. The switches worked fine (Lionel sent me the instructions to make them operate on constant volatage) but, like others say here, long engines and passenger cars hit on the switch boxes. I removed the red/green tops, made foam covers to make them blend in -- and all was well -- the beauty of the hobby is you can fudge things to make them work/look good.
As I do more research and talk to several hobby shops across the Midwest, however (I am a traveling sales guy), I've come to a few conclusions. Economy-wise, raw flexibility-wise, creativity-wise and sheer keeping things "classic"-wise, tubular is the way to go: It's cheap; you can cut track with a Dremel tool easily; you can insulate as many sections whenever and wherever you want -- which is a key to crossing signals and block signals-- which are key to a great layout; you can make your layout truly unique with your own road bed and ballast; and it upholds the tradition of Lionel going back to the early part of the last century.
My biggest beef, however, is that tubular track simply is not as reliable as the modern systems like Realtrax or Fasttrack. They operate better, period. All one needs to do is buy a beginner set from MTH or Lionel, hook up the track, run it around a Halloween display or Christmas display and you'll be amazed at the smooth performance and reliability. On a larger layout this is magnified. There is nothing worse than having visitors drooling over your layout and your new MTH $500 Metra engine dies because it hit a low spot or a dead spot on a curve or turn out and the show is over. You look like a second rate engineer!
I think you can accomplish this reliability, though, with tubular if you're careful and very attentive to details in laying track. But there is a cost of time. The cutting and transforming and insulating of the tubular track out of the the box -- it's strengths -- limits it's reliablity once the layout is built -- it's weakness -- because it ends up having kinks and low spots and improper conduction between tracks. The other negative is it's other strength: I love to ballast and make road bed with tubular; but with tubular, you HAVE to make ballast and road bed because it doesn't come with it! And that is time-consuming and costly, too. A Gentleman below said it is a wash in terms of cost difference and I'm thinking he hit a key point, BIG TIME. Currently, I'm playing with the idea of a homasote roadbed and a sprayed on rock paint -- an idea I got from the last CTT issue. I used homasote road bed on my last layout and it does reduce the noise.
Six of one, a half dozen of the other, as another well-informed train guy said below. My dilemma is I need more track for my new layout and I can't decide whether to invest in the old (tubular) or take the plunge to the new. As the old Chuck Berry song says, "Meanwhile... I'm STILL thinking..."
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