smoke fluid

[Anonymous]

Anyone use the Protosmoke with their Lionel Engines?

I've not been able to get my engines to smoke with the MTH fluid.  They work fine with the Lionel fluid, but my gets sick smelling the Lionel fluid.

Also, why do the MTH engines smoke more than the Lionel engines?  Do they have fan driven smokers and the Lionel engines do not?

[Jumijo]

I was at home on Christmas Eve that had a Lionel starter set running. The operator was using Protosmoke scented fluid and it was smoking very well. Several people commented that it smelled nice too. I don't have a sense of smell so I couldn't tell. I only use Lionel fluid in my Lionel locos. I tried Megasteam fluid and was very disappointed. I use Williams smoke fluid in my Williams and K-Line smokers. These practices have kept me in good stead.

Jim 

[msacco]

Jim,

something must be up because JT's is just about universally hailed as a masterpiece. I've used it my new Lionel docksider and it smokes very well. It does dissapate quickly too.

   I've also used it in my postwar heater pellet units and it works well. I've also combined it with pellets and again it works very well.

It's the bomb!!. Maybe you should email Jeff and tell him the specifics of your experience.

As for Protosmoke. It smokes well but I think it's smell is worse than Lionel"s. In the nose of the beholder I guess.

 

Mike S.

[Jumijo]

Jim,

something must be up because JT's is just about universally hailed as a masterpiece. I've used it my new Lionel docksider and it smokes very well. It does dissapate quickly too.

   I've also used it in my postwar heater pellet units and it works well. I've also combined it with pellets and again it works very well.

It's the bomb!!. Maybe you should email Jeff and tell him the specifics of your experience.

As for Protosmoke. It smokes well but I think it's smell is worse than Lionel"s. In the nose of the beholder I guess.

 

Mike S.

 

I did email him. He told me never to order from him again. How's that for customer service? I've still got his replies. That alone turned me off to ever giving the stuff another chance.

Jim 

[fifedog]

When my pals complain of limited smoke output, I usually recommend making sure they put 12-18 drops in at a time.  I have noticed that MTH units do put out more puffs, but I think they were the first kid on the block to get it right.  A buddy of mine only uses Lionel fluid with Lionel units, Protosmoke with MTH, simply because of the manufacture's recommendation.

The crew from National Trackers (currently at the B&O museum) uses lamp oil.  It looks like it works fine, but I'd worry about the residue.

Ultimately, you are making fan driven fog.  Just remember to add 5 drops at the end of the night to keep the wicks wet.

[msacco]

Jim,

sorry to hear about that. For most he puts out a fine product. Customer service obviously needs work though.

Mike S.

[Anonymous]

jaabat,

           I am also disappointed with Mega Steam,  For one thing, it seems that Mega Steam produces less smoke than any of the fluids produced by MTH or Lionel.  However, the biggest reason I stopped using Mega Steam was because of what it leaves in smoke units.  I have an MTH steamer that I have used nothing but Mega Steam in since the engine was new.  I noticed a marked reduction in smoke output, so I opened the smoke unit.  What I found could best be described as a thick, sticky, amber-colored sludge which coated the wicks and smoke unit housing.  This substance is not present in engines that receive MTH fluid their whole lives.  That made me can about $100 of Mega Steam.  I have nothing against the manufactuerer of Mega Steam, but I just wanted to let people know what can happen.

[Anonymous]

"I did email him. He told me never to order from him again. How's that for customer service? I've still got his replies. That alone turned me off to ever giving the stuff another chance." That's pretty shabby, right there.

[msacco]

Wow Jim,

I'm shocked to hear this. In my experience JTs puts out more smoke and the scents are good too. I run it mostly in my postwars and my docksider. I guess I'll dig into one of the postwar heaters and see what's going on there.

     I do know that a lot of people on OGR are using it in high-priced steamers. Wonder if they've had problems or will have?

 

Mike S.

[Anonymous]

Mike,

        I have used Mega Steam in postwar engines, and it hasn't caused any prooblems.  I really liked Mega Steam, but after I found the sludge in the MTH smoke unit, I quit using Mega Steam.  The sludge was the same color as the stuff that settles to the bottom of the bottles in scents like Vanilla and Cinnamon Roll.  If you like the scent of postwar SP pellets (meta-terphenyl) try combining one part Wood Stove Mega Steam and one part MTH Christmas.  I have found this smells very close to the pellets.  I am still going to use Mega Steam in PW steamers, because the smoke unit liners are easy to change if they become clogged.

[msacco]

Jim,

thanks for the pellet mixture. I pretty much use the toy trains limited repro pellets and although the smoke output is less, the smell is better IMHO, and my track stays cleaner longer.

    As far as sludge is concerned, I really wonder if you had bad batches of the JTs because i really only use cinnamon roll and vanilla and I've never seen anything settled on the bottom of the bottle.

 Mike S.

[msacco]

Jim,

My apologies,  but out of curiosity I opened up my 2056 and took a look at the smoke heater. didn't like what I found. The smoke chamber liner had that brownish sticky stuff all over it and the chamber was pretty covered in it too.

   cleaned it out and put in new lner and I think I'm going to stay with pellets in here. I"m not sure if there's any damage to the element but I'm not going to take any chances. I just put this one in not long ago.

   Thanks for the heads up!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Mike S.

[Anonymous]

Mike,

        I was wondering if I got a bad bottle, but I bet everyone who uses Mega Steam has sludge in their smoke unit(s).  I stopped using Super Smoke because I heard it also leaves sludge.  I just wish I didn't buy 20 bottles of Mega Steam, because now I have no use for it. I wasn't offended in any way by your earlier post. 

[ChiefEagles]

Jim,

something must be up because JT's is just about universally hailed as a masterpiece. I've used it my new Lionel docksider and it smokes very well. It does dissapate quickly too.

   I've also used it in my postwar heater pellet units and it works well. I've also combined it with pellets and again it works very well.

It's the bomb!!. Maybe you should email Jeff and tell him the specifics of your experience.

As for Protosmoke. It smokes well but I think it's smell is worse than Lionel"s. In the nose of the beholder I guess.

 

Mike S.

 

I did email him. He told me never to order from him again. How's that for customer service? I've still got his replies. That alone turned me off to ever giving the stuff another chance.

Jim 

Its a New England thing and especially around Methuem MA.   JT's is great stuff.  Been using it ever since I got back into the hobby.  I do mix it 2/3's JT's and 1/3 Lionel.  MTH smoke fluid stinks!!  I do drive folks crazy with the JT's as I use coal fired steamer in my steam engines and diesel in my diesels.  He has all "grades" of smells that are not so bad.  Jt's will produce more smoke but burns up faster.  So some thicker Lionel makes it last longer.

[zwbob]

I have a few engines that I have only used JT's in and I will pull them apart to take a look. One of the scents I use the most is vanilla. The bottle does have a dark colored substance on the bottom but I shake the bottle up before I use it. I still think its the best fluid out there.

[ChiefEagles]

I've taken apart quite a few Post War smoke units and find them looking like melted chocolate inside.  Gummed up bad.  I have taken apart quite a few new fan driven units and they are clean except for the burn on the wicking.  I always take the Lionel wicking out and replace it with pink insulation.  I also have taken Atlas apart and found what looks like a blond wig type material.  I replace it with pink too.  Same with MTH units, replace with pink.  Yes, the stuff you have in your attic and walls.  Oh, Polar Express smoke units have what looks like cellulous in them for wicking.  Junk if you ask me.  If you open up new smoke units, carefully remove that sock like thing over the element.  Actually does not do good.  When replacing, make sure the element touches the wicking and wicking is not blocking the hole where the fan blows out or the chimney in pot type units.  Polar Express has two very low chimenys.  I think that is why the leak [fluid gets to high in the pot].

[Anonymous]

jaabat

Jim, I am never one to excuse rudeness, especially where customer service is involved, and today is no exception. However, I have to ask whether there was some additional unreported  back-and-forth that took place leading up to the now-infamous quotation attributed to Jeff?

I have had only one phone conversation with him, and he was more than polite and the service (delivery of 6 bottles of different "flavors") was virtually instantaneous.

One thing that might help is routinely to shake the bottles, as someone has suggested, and also some thoughts about a "clean-out or "purging" fluid that would restore good operation if some gunk settled inside the smoke unit. Anyone, including J.T., have any thoughts. LGB (very thin) smoke fluid and track cleaner, perhaps? Ideas?

[lionelsoni]

If the stuff that is alleged to be clogging up the smoke generators is the same stuff that settles to the bottom of the bottle, it seems that it would be better not to shake the bottle before using it.

[Anonymous]

Or filter it out, perhaps. But if that's where the aroma resides, that would kinda defeat the purpose, would it not?

[msacco]

Yeah, I've been thinking about this too. The brown stuff must be the scent material. What else could it be?

 

Mike S.

[Smoke Stack Lightnin']

Enjoying the discussion and thought, for what it's worth, would throw in my 2 cents.  Thanks to JT's, I now run smoke "on" and really enjoy the added dimension.  My MTH engines can really put out a volume of smoke even with DCS set to minimum.  Some smoke units run hotter than others and might easily carmelize the residual effects of heating any fluid (oil).  I've been using Mega Steam over a year now in a number of well known brands of locos with no noticable negative effects.  I primarily use JT's Spring, Lumber Mill, Diesel, Coal-Fired Steamer, and Cranberry Woods scents.  If any of my smoke units fail I will fix then immediately refill them with JT's, as I can not stomach the stench of the aforementioned unscented fluids.  I have one engine with a Seuthe unit requiring Seuthe fluid which puts out a very high volume of smoke with absolutly no scent!  Only drawback is it gulps the stuff!  Sorry to hear of the poor customer service experience.  No excuse, but maybe he was having a real bad day?

Stack     

[spankybird]

I have use many different types of smoke fuild, Lionel, MTH, supersmoke, JT MegaSteam to name just a few. I have used JT MegaSteam since about when he came out with it years ago and have not had any problems with it.

Nothing smokes like an MTH. With two heating elements and fan driven !

I personaly like the Christmas Pine and Bayberry scents.

[Jumijo]

jaabat

Jim, I am never one to excuse rudeness, especially where customer service is involved, and today is no exception. However, I have to ask whether there was some additional unreported  back-and-forth that took place leading up to the now-infamous quotation attributed to Jeff?

I have had only one phone conversation with him, and he was more than polite and the service (delivery of 6 bottles of different "flavors") was virtually instantaneous.

One thing that might help is routinely to shake the bottles, as someone has suggested, and also some thoughts about a "clean-out or "purging" fluid that would restore good operation if some gunk settled inside the smoke unit. Anyone, including J.T., have any thoughts. LGB (very thin) smoke fluid and track cleaner, perhaps? Ideas?

After reading about all those gummed up smoke units, I'm glad I tossed my one and only bottle of megasteam!

Here's the email trenholm sent me on 3/14/05. My email to him is under his reply. As you can see, I did not antagonize him in any way. I was polite and willing to work it out:

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Apple Harvest Megasteam
To: japitz

Since there's only half of a 2oz bottle left, what do you suggest? A partial refund? I can't see giving a full refund for something you've used and has no sale value. I don't see you being a repeat customer if you don't like the performance of the fluid.
 
Send it back and I'll refund the $3.50 price of the bottle. I will not refund the shipping since that's something that's been paid for and used already. Please do not order again.
 
Jeff

>>>>>In a message dated 3/14/2005 2:30:16 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, japitz writes:

I bought the Megasteam for increased smoke output, but just as much so for the scent to appease people complaining about the smell of the Lionel fluid. The obvious thing to do if it was only a smoke issue would be to keep using the Lionel fluid, but it smells terrible. Besides, I paid for the Megasteam, I'd like to be able to use it in my smoke unit.

I've tried filling the unit more. I've tried filling it less. I've tried draining the unit and then filling it. I've tried running the train at higher voltage with more cars. No matter what has been done, the smoke output drops off almost immediately to nothing.

I was hoping you could either shed some light on why it isn't working as advertised or do something to satisfy me as a customer. I know I only spent $6.00, no great fortune, but I'd like for you to stand behind your product instead of telling me to use the other brand. I was impressed with your customer service when I ordered the fluid, and by how quickly it arrived. I'd like see that same impressive service as a customer with a real problem related to the product.

I hope we can resolve my issue regarding your product. Truthfully, I'd like nothing more than to be a satisfied, repeat customer many times over.

Respectfully,

Jim Apitz

[fifedog]

jabaat - anyone can have a bad day.  This JT guy seems to be having a succession of them. Perhaps you could give him some wardrobe tips to brighten his outlook on life.

[Jumijo]

jabaat - anyone can have a bad day.  This JT guy seems to be having a succession of them. Perhaps you could give him some wardrobe tips to brighten his outlook on life.

 

Uh, what exactly do you mean by that? I wear jeans, flannel shirts, and docksiders most of the time. I'm the last person who should give anyone tips on how to dress. 

[fifedog]

jaabat - Ohhhh, I think you do. 12/26/06;9:46am.

[Deputy]

Two comments...

#1 Be careful about adding smoke fluid to a new loco. I bought a brand new MTH S2 and when I put it on the tracks it was smoking nicely out of the smokestack. Big billowing puffs. But I was a bit concermed that I might "burn something out", so I added 12 drops of MTH smoke fluid to the stack. Next thing I know, NO smoke is coming out the stack! Instead, it's coming out by the oiler linkage. An interesting effect, but I don't think it's supposed to do that. I would suggest only adding smoke fluid if the smoke stops or almost stops. JMHO

#2 What the heck are DOCKSIDERS???? I wear jeans and t-shirts and sometimes sweatshirts. Are docksiders some kind of fancy name for long johns or what?????    

Dep

[Jumijo]

Fifedog, I don't have the slightest clue what you're referring to.

Dep, Sounds like you might have over-filled the smoke unit. I thought MTH trains held approx 24 drops, but I don't have any of their steamers.

Docksiders are the same thing as topsiders. Brown boat shoes with a rubber sole and one leather lace. 

Jim 

[Deputy]

Jim: Yeah...I think you're right about overfilling it. Nothing has leaked out so far (knock on wood). Hopefully, it will burn off and return to normal.

Ohhhhh....on the shoes. I got something similar that was worn by Don Johnson on Miami Vice. They call mine deck shoes. They are actually canvas sneakers that just slip on. Very comfy...and they make me look JUST LIKE Don Johnson (when he was young and not all shrivelled up). LOLOL.

dep

[Anonymous]

Dep,

       The cause of the smoke coming out by the linkage was due to a bubble that formed in the smoke unit, not because of too much fluid.  After adding fluid, blow down the stack.  That eliminates any bubbles.