I'm having problems with both my #50 Gang Car and #60 Trolley running on my FasTrack bumper line. I am powering them with a new ZW.Both run sluggishly. I put a drop of oil behind each wheel on the Trolley and that did not help. The ZW is at Max (20).Is there somewhere to grease/oil these that I am missing? Do these require the Postwar 20 watts coming from the ZW or LW, or should they be fine with 18 watts coming out of the new ZW?
They are both Postwar
wolverine49 wrote:Something is wrong. Be careful something doesn't overheat.
Thanks! Can you be a little more specific? LOL!I had them hooked up to a LW Transformer and they just zipped along the track. I don't have the LW any more so I can't go back to it!Are the New ZWs different from the Postwar ZWs? I know they are vastly different in construction, but are they different in the type of power they generate?
1688torpedo wrote:Hello Lionroar! You may need to put some fresh grease on the Worm Gear of the Trolley & Gang Car. Gang Car's are usually sluggish as they have only one Pickup Roller while two are better for maximum Current flow to the Motor. If you are also using 20 volts to power them., That is too high of a voltage to use. Use only 6- 10 Volts as that would be much better & the Motor's will run cooler also. And, make sure the Motor's are clean & the Brushes are not worn out as well. If you need help cleaning the Motor's & what to use. Here is a short list: Q-tips,Paper Towels, & some Rubbing Alchohol. Dip the Q-tip in some rubbing Alchohol & swab it on the Face of the Commutator(Large Circular Copper Disc on the end of the Armature) Then use the dry end of the Q-tip to dry off any excess residue. Use a clean pencil eraser to clean off any Carbon(Black marks on the Commutator) & it will shine like new. Use the Rubbing Alchohol & Eraser to clean the ends of the Brushes in a like Manner. Re-assemble Motor, Grease & oil all moving parts & you should be set. If you have any questions. Let us know. Take Care.
lionelroar88,
One very important thing to remember when taking the brushplate off of a gang car or trolley is not to pull the plate off after removing the two screws. Instead remove the screws and hold the plate on while you turn the unit upside down so that the plate faces the ground. Now, pull the plate off. The reason I suggest doing this is because ther is a bearing ball in the part between the brush tubes. If you pull the brushplate off without first turning the unit upside down as described, there is a very good chance that the ball will fall out and get lost (trust me, I know from experience). Hope this helps.
Lionroar88,
Sorry about that. I was on my way out the door and simply didn't have time to do more than confirm that there is a problem and urge you not to do any permanent damage to the equipment.
My "specialties" are the postwar 375 rubber-belt coal-loader, and the operation (NOT the technics) of the CW-80, so I couldn't be of much help anyway. I have torn down both the postwar #50 and #60, and cleaned and lubed them so that they run very fast and smoothly; but I have never been able to get them to run really quietly, although Jim Barrett of the "other" forum claims it can be done.
One thing for sure, as jimtrumpie warns, the ball-bearing can be a P.I.T.A. Sometimes they disappear in old grease, and sometimes, when you remove the armature, the ball will stiick to the end of the shaft, and then drop off when you least expect it. Same advice about skinny little thrust-washers.
Torpedo's post is right on, also. I would only add to have a magnet handy. (Ball-bearing again.)
Hope you get your Service Manual. Meanwhile, try the "Library" at Olsen's Toy Trains and see whether they have an exploded diagram online.
The fact that they "zipped" with the LW is suggestive of something, but I don't know what. Perhaps you should hold-off tearing the cars down until that issue is resolved. Someone else will have to advise you about the new ZW. I think you are in good hands here.
Wolverine and Allan,Thanks for the replies.It has been a couple years since I've run either the 50 or 60. I'll do some more experimenting tonight as I have a CW, and a KW, as well as a couple transformers from the old O-27 starter sets.I'm a bit concerned about using the CW for this test though... It is doing a nice job running the secondary loop for the General Passenger train...If nothing else I can always take them to the LHS to test on their tracks as well.
Allan Miller wrote:My guess is that you have a transformer issue, and not a problem with the #50 or #60. I would beg, borrow, or buy another transformer--even the smallest starter set version--and the that before taking the units apart. If they ran well with the LW, there's no reason they shouldn't run well with ANY transformer, even the smallest one.
It is normal for the ZWgreen light to flicker when getting TMCC commands. That threw me too until I read the manual. Remember that when using the Cab-1 / New ZW to run conventional units the ZW handle sets the maximum voltage. Was your handle position all the way forward? Then turning the Cab-1 dial will give you the full voltage.
Jim H
lionroar88 wrote:Well not a transformer problem... both act the same way when hooked up to the CW and the KW. Took them apart and cleaned them and now neither are working... so it's a trip to the LHS.
That's really pretty strange. I have a #60 trolley that hadn't been run in at least 20 years. Put it on the track recently, without any cleaning or lubrication, and it ran just fine (albeit with even more noise than those units normally make). Ditto for a couple of 520 boxcabs that have been stored for at least eight years.
It's very strange that you would have the same problem with two small units--either of which should operate just fine with even the smallest starter set transformer, let alone a KW or ZW.
Allan Miller wrote: lionroar88 wrote:Well not a transformer problem... both act the same way when hooked up to the CW and the KW. Took them apart and cleaned them and now neither are working... so it's a trip to the LHS. That's really pretty strange. I have a #60 trolley that hadn't been run in at least 20 years. Put it on the track recently, without any cleaning or lubrication, and it ran just fine (albeit with even more noise than those units normally make). Ditto for a couple of 520 boxcabs that have been stored for at least eight years.It's very strange that you would have the same problem with two small units--either of which should operate just fine with even the smallest starter set transformer, let alone a KW or ZW.
Well, I took the Gang Car apart and cleaned it up. Oiled and greased it lightly and it is doing the same thing it was before. The Trolley I took apart and cleaned, oiled and greased and all it does is sit there doing nothing.Both cars did the same thing, before cleaning, with all the transformers listed. I bought both about 5 years ago and I had not had them checked or anything, so I don't know if they ever worked properly.So it probably isn't a bad idea to take them in anyway.
IAs I recall, each of those cars has a sliding piece that runs virtually the length of the car. In effect it is the core of the reverse-upon-impact mechanism. The contacts are on the top and point upward, and must "mate" with contacts that face downward. Or vice-versa.
All mating surfaces must be clean, dry and free from corrosion, and must come to rest on the appropriate set of contacts as a result of impact. It's a lot easier to observe than to explain.
Sometimes it gets pretty gunky in there, and you have to clean and dry the contacts by slipping a thin cloth between them (or whatever works) and maybe run a little very fine emery paper (400 -- 600 grit) to burnish the contacts just a tad. The contacts have to be "electrically clean," not just clean looking.
That mechanism, which is an electrical switch, the brush assemblies, and the roller pickups are about all there is to be concerned with if the problem is that not enough current is getting to the motor. One fairly clear symptom of really poor contact within the reversing mechanism is that the car just sits there and makes no effort to move.
One last oft-forgotten point. The wheels have to be electrically clean also, as they provide the "ground" leg of the circuit.
"I bought both about 5 years ago and I had not had them checked or anything, so I don't know if they ever worked properly."
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Oh, heck, well that's a horse of a different color, as the old saying goes. I had assumed that you once--even years ago--had these items and that they operated properly then, but do not operate properly now. If you bought them (used) some years ago and have never run them, there could be all sorts of causes for your problem.
Wolverine and Allan,Thank you both for all your help with this. At least I know I don't have a problem with any of the transformers, that is a huge relief! The Gang Car and Trolley are wonderful cars to have and I really want to get them working!
Allan,They did 'work' when I first bought them. I never had a bumper line to test the reversing mechanism and that is what wasn't working properly (they would hit the bumper and just sit there grinding). Since I've never taken one of these things apart before and cleaned it, I may not have done something correctly. I did get them back together the same way they were before I started the cleaning.
Notes: The Gang Car has a lot of black soot inside. The grease on the gear and armatuer was a tanish color and not very pliable, my guess is the car was never maintained well on the inside, the box and car itself are in near pristine condition. I don't think the instructions were ever removed from the box.
The Trolley is another story. I bought it for $45.00 at a trainshow. The box is original and shows some wear (end flap is taped on one side), and the inner end flaps are missing on both sides (at least on the one I opened last night). The inner lining is mint. No instructions. The Trolley itself is maybe C-6 at best. The blue printing on one side is nearly completely rubbed off, the other side is fine. No cracks or scratches or missing parts. Blt-'55. I found my old K-Line service manual last night and read there is something about the '55 that they fixed in '56. Maybe I should ask the service center to change it to a '56? Kind of like to keep it original if I can. When I took it apart last night there was black grease soot all over the inside bottom of the shell (none above the velum passenger line). The lower assembly was LOADED, and I mean LOADED with grease. It got nearly all of it off before reassembling. Then I turned it over and cleaned the wheels and center rollers. I must have used 20 Q-tips cleaning the wheels alone! Put grease where there were moving parts and oiled the axles. Put it on the track and it just sat there flipping me off!
So I think I did a fairly good job, all things considered. I think a trip to the service center will do them some good.
One other thing I noticed, that no one mentioned, is there was some 'rust' on the Commutator (on the steel contacts on the side that rotate close to the C shaped piece). Sorry for the lack of correct terms - I don't have the repair manual with me.
BTW - Wolverine, you could have told me the ball bearing was the size of a period! Holy crap that thing is small! BTW - I put a dish towel (not terry cloth) not the table before I started. The ball bearing didn't make it very far!
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