2023 Lack of pulling power/traction?

[pgtr]

I hooked up a longish consist (for me) of 18 or so cars about half of which I have NOT had time to clean/lube. These are all PW cars and some certainly don't roll that well especially since they hadn't been cleaned/lubed making this pull like a much longer consist might.

My single engine 2245 F3 and even my 2037 steam pulled the consist pretty convincingly. But my 2023 ALCO couldn't get it going other than just barely down a long straight. It would lose traction and spin.

Should I be able to expect more pulling power out of the 2023 UP ALCO?

Thanks

[lionelsoni]

The 2023 is not a great puller.  But you could have lost one of the magnetraction magnets.  They are glued to the upper front and back corners of the power truck.

[1688torpedo]

Hello Pgtr- You should have cleaned & oiled the Wheels on your Rolling Stock as when they are dry it is like pulling a Brick for a Engine & Bob is right your 2023 could have lost a Magnet or have weak Magne-Traction also.When in top running condition a 2023 should have respectible pulling power. They will not pull like the Behemoths of today & they were not designed to either & this is something that most folks forget over time as well. It is almost like having a Four Cylinder do the work of a Eight Cylinder Engine & that will never happen. Take Care.

[USNRol]

Doesn't sound unlike my 2023's which run very well and have all their magnets.  I pull ten or so well Lubed PW cars with my 2023's with no problems at all however when the wheels dry out I can tell and with only one drive motor in the ALCo's they sometimes spin when starting out especially with cars around a curve.

Cheers,

USNRol

[2343]

I'm reviving this thread because I have recently purchased a 2023 Anniversary Pair of Alcos and find that the pulling power is clearly not as good as my 2343 Alco set when pulling the same consist of not that many cars:  a Boxcar, the Lehigh Valley Coal Car (albeit with a full load of Lionel Coal, a Gondola with 6 barrels, and a lighted Lionel Lines caboose.  In fact, I thought something was wrong with the powered one until I took all trains off the layout and ran just the Alcos which seemed to run just fine.  Then I tried the powered unit with just the cars and not the dummy unit and all was fine, but once the dummy was added...not much pulling power.  I'm also wondering if my transformer isn't strong enough...it's a TW, but all of my accessories (many lit ones) are all tied to it as well such as the oil pumping station, lighted passenger station, floodlight tower,and  industrial water tower.  Should I buy reconditioned Z transformer and a sound activation button to solve the problem or is it just that these Alcos aren't good pullers and leave it at that?

[sean s.]

I think a lot has to with the condition of your 2023s and the rolling stock.  I do, however think that you guys are asking a bit much from your alcos.  I have 3 sets of die-cast frame alcos (2023 in yellow and grey, and a 2032).  They have all been professionally serviced and run beautifully smooth and track as if they are glued to the track.  I do notice, especially when using it as an AA set, the pulling power if not the best. 

I run mine as if it were a small set/outfit.  The AA and about 4-6 PW cars and lighted coboose.  Looks good, and still runs smoothly.

If your looking for something equally as smooth and similiar (maybe even cheaper) then a 2023, look into a PW switcher like a nice 623 or 6250.  Same motors as the 2023, but seem to pull a little more.

[lionelsoni]

I put a motor in the "dummy" unit of my 2023 set.  It now has no trouble pulling a dozen 2400-type streamliners.

[ADCX Rob]

Do a complete lube job on both of the locos - oil at all 16 wheel bearings and the spur gear shafts, oil the armature end bearings, grease the power truck gears(worms and spurs) & lube all Postwar axles/wheels(I use a drop of Mobil 1 from a hobby needle oiler).

Run the AA set backwards - front coupler of the powered unit pulling the consist, rear coupler pushing the dummy. 

Rob 

[2343]

Or maybe based on your reply to the thread that I started on SW/TW contrasts, it's just that the TW doesn't have the watts/volts necessary to power my layout efficiently?

[ADCX Rob]

The Alco AA sets were furnished with a 90 watt 1033 transformer, and the TW has two of them inside, one for trains, the other for accessories, so the TW should be fine for your set if it is running up to snuff.

Rob 

[sir james I]

As mentioned above the 2023 motor was a very good one. but with a heavy dummy unit the engine was not able to pull long trains.A very good engine but lacked pulling power. I purchased a reissue Erie Alco ABA and it was a big disappointment,good motor no pulling power. Sold it.

[MikeSanta]

My experience with the TW is that it is NOT that good to actually run trains with unless you hook it up to posts E and F to unite both sides and put out 25 volts. It seemed to not have the watts or amps to actually run a train with a postwar engine. When I did the 25 volts it only seemed to be as strong as 18 or 20 ZW volts and just the train side wouldn't budge a dual motor F3. A voltmeter said it was putting out the volts and I use it for accessories and it does fine. But not for trains, although it might do the command stuff.

[RockIsland52]

Just to add fuel to the fire in this UP 2023 Alco discussion, this link is courtesy of Jim A.  Videos show LTI 2031 Alcos (1952-1954 with magnetraction) pulling 15 and 22 cars, respectively, though I suspect the dummy unit is no dummy unit and the boxcars are not the heaviest of rolling stock.  There are 3 separate videos.  Bright cabin lights might indicate the voltage is up in the videos.  Enjoy, then start cleaning and lubing the rolling stock, clean track, loco wheels, and the pickups.  I've had my single engine 2031 Rock Island Alco pulling 12 plus the dummy unit with a ZW.  Never tried more. Jack.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jack,

Check this 2031 video out!

Lionel 2031s in action

[USNRol]

I put a motor in the "dummy" unit of my 2023 set.  It now has no trouble pulling a dozen 2400-type streamliners.

Bob this is a neat idea...was the dummy frame completely adaptable to an additional motor?  Did you wire the dummy motor from the Powered units E-unit or use a second e-unit?  I've thought of buying a stand alone 2023 power unit to lash up with my power unit to make them pull better. 

The dummy unit "TwoThreeFourThree" describe sounds like it does need a good lube.  Mine rolls effortlessly when well lubed, but as heavy as it is adds considerable load to the train on hills.

My ALCo's are the smoothest running (I mean SILKY smooth, creeps good too) locos I own.  But the loco itself isn't nearly as heavy as a dual motored F3 and has a much higher gear ratio than the F3 and only the one motor (and thus only 4 wheel drive).  The PW AlCo's weakness is its inability to develop tractive effort, due to lighter weight, 4 vs. 8 drive wheels, higher gear ratio. 

Run the AA set backwards - front coupler of the powered unit pulling the consist, rear coupler pushing the dummy. 

Rob 

I do this as well.  It helps a little.  I do it more to wear the gear train more evenly than anything else.

Along flats I have no problem pulling nearly 20 well maintained PW era cars.  If I peg the throttle at the start the wheels will surely spin, but with judicious application of the throttle very prototypical starts result.  Normal inclines give me lot's of trouble though...anything over 6-8 cars and unless I have a REAL GOOD running start the wheels start slipping and the train stalls before reaching the top flat.

Anecdotal: My can motored PE Berkshire out pulls my PW 2343 SF on hills!  I suspect the traction tires have a lot to do with this.  Where wheel-to-rail friction is unlimited (Mt. Washington's COG railway...:)..? )the dual-motored F3 would out pull virtually any modern loco I believe.

I guess it all comes down to how best to increase the friction...a time-immemorial quest for railroaders both big and small.  Check the forum for threads on this...I think there's been one or two.

Roland

[lionelsoni]

Roland, I put in a power truck and body bolster from a 2032.  I wired the two motors to the original e-unit.  Instead of a tether, I ran wire over the top of the couplers and tie-wrapped to them, effectively permanently coupling the units.