New Williams catalog

[Deputy]

"It's no secret that Save the Rails is in a class by itself. We are dedicated to providing you with the finest model trains and railroads from industry leaders such as K-LINE Electric Trains™ which is now own(ed) by Lionel."

http://www.savethetrains.com/index.html

K-Line and Lionel were known to criticize one another's offerings in print advertisements, and the two companies challenged one another in court as well. On July 27, 2005, Lionel sued K-Line, alleging that K-Line, its president, and its engineer Robert Grubba (a former Lionel employee) had paid Lionel engineer Marty Pierson for proprietary information about Lionel's speed control and sound systems, in addition to information about the electrical transformer Lionel bundles in its train sets. The two companies settled the suit on August 10, with K-Line agreeing to withdraw the infringing products by January 31, 2006 and paying a royalty to Lionel in the interim. K-Line also licensed some of its technology to Lionel, and reimbursed $700,000 of legal costs. Shortly thereafter the settlement fell apart and on August 23, 2005, MDK filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. On October 27, K-Line and Lionel reached a new settlement, including a permanent injunction against manufacturing products containing the disputed technology, a $2 million damage claim in its bankruptcy case, and royalty-free access to several K-Line patents.

K-Line's 2005 bankruptcy petition stated that its annual sales were between $7 and $8 million.

Over the next few months, K-Line's operations slowed and there were numerous layoffs and rumors of potential purchasers, which were highly publicized among hobbyists.

On February 16, 2006, Lionel announced it had purchased K-Line.

Since Lionel was also in bankruptcy, the deal, which actually involved the purchase of K-Line by Sanda Kan, its Chinese subcontractor, followed by Sanda Kan's licensing of the trademarks and intellectual property to Lionel, took several weeks to become final. The deal was finalized on April 18, 2006, and Lionel made the announcement the following day.

Prior to the 2005 legal action, the relationship between Lionel and K-Line had generally been more amicable than Lionel's relationship with MTH. Lionel has licensed TMCC to K-Line, and K-Line produces a number of repair manuals for postwar-era Lionel. K-Line has also produced commemorative cars celebrating some of Lionel's significant anniversaries, which has sometimes caused confusion among collectors.

Because K-Line's budget offerings remain almost unchanged from the old Marx designs, Marx collectors sometimes source spare parts from K-Line.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-Line

Sure sound slike Lionel OWNS K-Line to me

Dep

[Deputy]

And from Lionel themsleves:

http://www.lionel.com/CentralStation/newsStand/viewrelease.cfm?newsID=124

K-LINE – ... Lionel will take control of the K-Line brand, its tooling, its inventory of unsold products, and everything else that lawyers and accountants call, “assets.” As soon as we can straighten things out and get organized, Lionel will make new products under the K-Line brand, and market and sell those products as part of the Lionel line."

 

Dep 

 

 

[BMRR]

I like my "cheap" lionel trains........just fine.

Stan.

[brianel027]

Duputy, you can believe whatever you want, but your take on this tells me not to take too much of what you say at face value. You left out a key paragraph from the wikipedia article (bold text emphasized by me):

"Over the next few months, K-Line's operations slowed and there were numerous layoffs and rumors of potential purchasers, which were highly publicized among hobbyists. On February 16, 2006, Lionel announced it had purchased K-Line. Since Lionel was also in bankruptcy, the deal, which actually involved the purchase of K-Line by Sanda Kan, its Chinese subcontractor, followed by Sanda Kan's licensing of the trademarks and intellectual property to Lionel, took several weeks to become final. The deal was finalized on April 18, 2006, and Lionel made the announcement the following day."

Regardless of what you have read or incorrectily believe, Lionel does not as of yet OWN K-Line. Lionel entered a marketing agreement with Sanda Kan, so that Sanda Kan could recoup some of their losses to MDK. I'm sure Lionel is not mourning the loss of K-Line as an independ company for it is less competition, however large or small the amount of MDK sales.

Lionel has had or currently has licensing agreements with Warner Brothers, Disney and NACAR, yet Lionel does not OWN Warner Brothers, Disney or NASCAR. Using your logic Dep, one would say Lionel does own those companies, and we all know that is hardly the case. Matter of fact if Lionel owned Warner Brothers (which by your logic Dep, they do) they'd still be producing Warner Brothers items, which they are not because they did not renew their marketing agreement with WB. According to your logic, Lionel also owns KODAK. Yet when Lionel produced KODAK items without permission, KODAK threatened legal action and the items were discontinued. Same goes for K-Line and KODAK.

A licensing agreement is a totally different arrangement than ownership. Sorry, but sounds to me like you do not understand the very words you quote Deputy. Lionel does not own K-Line. They might one day, but not now.

[Deputy]

Duputy, you can believe whatever you want, but your take on this tells me not to take too much of what you say at face value. You left out a key paragraph from the wikipedia article (bold text emphasized by me):

"Over the next few months, K-Line's operations slowed and there were numerous layoffs and rumors of potential purchasers, which were highly publicized among hobbyists. On February 16, 2006, Lionel announced it had purchased K-Line. Since Lionel was also in bankruptcy, the deal, which actually involved the purchase of K-Line by Sanda Kan, its Chinese subcontractor, followed by Sanda Kan's licensing of the trademarks and intellectual property to Lionel, took several weeks to become final. The deal was finalized on April 18, 2006, and Lionel made the announcement the following day."

Regardless of what you have read or incorrectily believe, Lionel does not as of yet OWN K-Line. Lionel entered a marketing agreement with Sanda Kan, so that Sanda Kan could recoup some of their losses to MDK. I'm sure Lionel is not mourning the loss of K-Line as an independ company for it is less competition, however large or small the amount of MDK sales.

Lionel has had or currently has licensing agreements with Warner Brothers, Disney and NACAR, yet Lionel does not OWN Warner Brothers, Disney or NASCAR. Using your logic Dep, one would say Lionel does own those companies, and we all know that is hardly the case. Matter of fact if Lionel owned Warner Brothers (which by your logic Dep, they do) they'd still be producing Warner Brothers items, which they are not because they did not renew their marketing agreement with WB. According to your logic, Lionel also owns KODAK. Yet when Lionel produced KODAK items without permission, KODAK threatened legal action and the items were discontinued. Same goes for K-Line and KODAK.

A licensing agreement is a totally different arrangement than ownership. Sorry, but sounds to me like you do not understand the very words you quote Deputy. Lionel does not own K-Line. They might one day, but not now.

First off it's NOT what I say, It's what LIONEL says. Yes, I left that part off that you quoted. And let's take a CLOSER look at that part. Hmmm...let me QUOTE directly from what you posted

"On February 16, 2006, Lionel announced it had purchased K-Line."

Now that comes STRAIGHT from Lionel's mouth. So does everything else I posted with the excpetion of the statement from that train dealer. If you want to row up the river DeNile, that's your choice. But don't hand me double talk and legalese that is based solely on your interpretations or heresay "proof" from "people in the know". Find someone else's hairs to split. I can't spare any.  Who is selling the K-Line stuff...is it MTH...nope. Is it Atlas...nope. Where is it advertised? In the MTH catalog? Nope. In the Atlas or Williams catalog? Nope. Is Lionel just doing K-Line a favor by advertising their stuff in their catalog? I don't think so.  

Can it get any PLAINER than that???? If a thing looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and craps like a duck, I think we can pretty much accept it IS a duck.

Dep