RMT's Next Success Story?

[johnandjulie13]

BTW,

Would these units be considered "disposable?" What would it cost to repair if one of these units broke down? It may be cheaper to throw it away and buy another.

Regards,

John O

[marxalot]

I'm going home and measure up my greatly loved Marx Monon A-A units. I think they are 22" overall which means this Beef unit at 10 " is right in there. I bet an A-B arrangement would look very nice. I see where both are powered too.

Jim

[Anonymous]

I bought 2 "Buddy" cars at York, and love them. I wish RMT all the success in the world...they deserve it. Great looking quality products, for very little money. Joe

[Warburton]

I agree with you all -- bravo to RMT! How about "Geezer" units for all us old-timers? They would sputter along down the pike, and every now and then stop and take a nap.

[mitchelr]

I love my BEEP. Hope to find a Buddy when I have some more $$$ for trains. I'll have to be on the look out for some PEEPs and BEEFs too.

Mitch[swg]

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm? Two A units and four B units would give the illusion of a scale sized ABA combo with a curious centipede like wheel arrangement. I can imagine such a setup would be fascinating to watch on a praticularily twisty piece of trackage.

Since I assume the Beef mechanicals are the same as the Beep's can anyone comment on the performance of a 6 Beep engine lashup? With 12 cylinders of torque I'm betting a string of Beefs could pull just about anything you cared to throw at it.

Bruce Webster

[Anonymous]

"Would these units be considered "disposable?"
----------------

Sure! Anything is disposable if you have enough money laying around to replace it. At around $60 (per BEEP), I guess they are as "disposable" as a current issue Lionel, MTH, or Atlas boxcar, or some such item.

But I've had a few BEEPs since before there even was an RMT BEEP (in their contemporary form, they were first offered by Toy Truck Collector), and none of them have needed any repair work. They just keep on going, and going, and going.

[Jumijo]

I agree with Brian's disertations regarding the lack of new O27 equipment, and the fact that O27, tradional, non-scale, or what ever you call it probably does suppliment the funding of more expensive equipment's production costs. But innovations cost money to develop. Die casting, new couplers, smoke units, whistles were all once new technology and I'm sure that in their day, were expensive. I'll also bet that lesser items were priced to help defray their development costs. Progress, innovation and technology aren't dirty words.

There are a number of locomotives that are priced at or under $100.00. RMT has several. Walter has figured a way to recycle the Beep into a Beef, apparently by doing little more than changing the shell. Good for him! He has offered reliable products at an affordable price. Not everyone likes RMT's products. But not every one wants $1000.00+ toy trains either.

Instead of complaining, I say find something that makes you happy and start enjoying yourself. For instance, Brian talks a lot about the lack of his favorite road names being produced on rolling stock he likes. But I suspect that Brian actually enjoys repainting and relettering his rolling stock. I think he enjoys modifying locomotives to suit his desires.

My point is, there is room enough for all tastes and budgets in this hobby. There are products manufactured to meet most if not all of those markets. This is a great time to be involoved in O gauge railroading. Light years ahead of 1969, the end of the postwar era, when all that was available was left over junk.

Jim

[FJ and G]

Can someone please tell me why the price of the motorized Beef is about the same price as a piece of "scale" toy train rolling stock without any motor?

[Jumijo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by FJ and G

Can someone please tell me why the price of the motorized Beef is about the same price as a piece of "scale" toy train rolling stock without any motor?

I think we both know the answer to that question, David. People are willing to pay $70 for that piece of rolling stock, so that's what it costs. And yeah, part of the price goes toward paying off the development of other offerings.

Beeps and Beefs could be offered for $100 and I think people would still buy them. But at $65-$70, people think they are getting the bargain of the year and snap them up in multiples. RMT's development overhead must be considerably less than the big guy's, which means he can sell his products for less and still realize a good profit margin.

Jim

[brianel027]

Jaabat, you do make some good points above. And I do have a lot of fun redoing, altering and building my own train items. I have the ability to do so, but I've met a lot of folks who don't. Over the years, I've gotten countless comments of where did I get this Conrail, CSX or Norfolk Southern Alco FA or S-2? Folks really like these, but were I do custom do one for them, it would have to be at a price point they probably couldn't afford.

Now some related observations...
At one time Lionel was the third largest catalog maker in the world. Lionel trains sold in the millions. There's a good chance the the single unit sales at that time equaled the sales of many individual items today. Which means, although there were development costs back then, those costs stood a better chance of being made back on sales of that one single item.

Buyers were not as demanding or fussy years ago either. So an extended production run of one individual item was more practical and accepted. Today while there is a selection available unimaginable back then, many train buyers do not want to see the same items being offered over and over again in just differing road names.

And while the competition has driven the hobby forward, there's also been a liability. Tooling and dies can quickly become subpar on a detail level in only a few years time. An example of that would be the former MTH Premiere line up. So while the selection available to today's train buyer is superb, there is a cost. Look at all the new products develeoped by K-Line in their last couple years. Nice products for sure, but did any of them actually make a return on their development costs? Indications are that they didn't, at least not in such a short time span. And so now, no more K-Line (at least as a competitor).

Add to this the brand loyalty factor. "Well, I really like that engine, but I'm going to wait until my favorite company makes it." Or "Gee, company A makes that , so why can't company B?" And due to the seriousness of the competition, the companies are aware of this too... "Well, those guys are making a GP38-2 at this detail level, so now we have better also make one too." "Everyone else is making a Hudson, so we don't want to be left out so we had better make one too."

And just the fact that so many new train locos for example have list prices of around $400-$600 (and more), that to me seems to say that there's only a set number of people who will be buying these items. It appears to me that these are the same people who are always waiting for the next new thing. Which to me means that these new products stand even a smaller chance of making a return because of the limited sales potential and the finicky demanding nature of that audience for which these products are made.

All of this strikes me with some irony, because all of the companies in the years I've been back in the hobby have all talked about wanting to grow the hobby and introduce trains to kids again. Yet they can't afford to do the media advertising to make the products known to kids. So they rely on what I call the "Grandfather effect." It's an older adult who makes the decision to buy a son, grandson or nephew a train set. He goes to a hobby shop and he sees a starter set in HIS favorite road name, which gets HIM to buy the train set. He hopes the kid will take an interest in the trains. Which may or may not happen. But the kid might be more likely to stick with it if the trains looked like or were in road names that the kid is more likely to see today. Just as years ago when a new train loco would be on the real rails, the toy train makers rushed to get one made. They might have said Lionel Lines on them, but they were still in the paint scheme of the Union Pacific or whatever railroad they were copied from.

I suppose all of this is just a moot point. But while the bigger train companies are trying to figure out the next great advance in technology, fighting lawsuits and making products that appeal to a limited but established audience, here comes a little company called RMT who I believe really has the right idea.

And what affordable lower end item from any of the bigger train companies has generated the press, excitement, selection and even sales that the RMT items have? I would say the answer is "none."

Let that answer speak for itself when the other leading companies try to explain what they're doing to help make the hobby affordable and bring in new modelers.

[phillyreading]

Craig N,
I haven't been to Strasburg in a few years so I guess they could have a diesel by now, but as I remember it was all steam powered locomotives last time I was there. I know that Strasburg is not too far off the Amtrac main line and I think the Pennsylvania Railroad museum uses Strasburg's tracks to bring in some new peices to the museum.
Lee F.

[Dr. John]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jimhaleyscomet

I hope the shell is reversable like it is on the Beeps. That way you can purchase two A units and reverse the shell for an ABA all powered unit!

Jim H

I saw on another forum where Walter of RMT said that these units will have a switch to allow them to run ABA or AA without having to reverse the shell.

[Jumijo]

I can't make excuses for toy train companies making stupid business decisions. Nor would I want to. At some point, one would think that the voice of reason at your favorite brand would say "we cannot afford any more expensive tooling or fancy control systems". Any village idiot can see that what happened to K-Line was due in most part to leveraging too much on expensive development costs too fast. They didn't give themselves enough time to recoup investment funds before spending more on the next item. So why does that strategy continue with the survivors? I have no idea.

On the other hand, Williams and RMT seem to have solid business plans. They keep using what they already have to pump out good products at a good price. RMT creates demand with very low prices (I'll buy 2 at that price). Williams creates demand with low annual production runs (I better order one before they're all sold out). Wouldn't it be something if they are the big 2 in this hobby five years or a decade from now?

Jim

[1688torpedo]

Dave- I think that BB would like some A-1 Steak Sauce to go with her BEEF! [;)][:)][:D]

[Anonymous]

I think RMT should consider making a new 44 Tonner shell to fit on thier mechanism. These new Beefs seem to be new shells on the Beep mech. A scale 44 Tonner is exactly the same lenth as the Beep and there seems to be a lot of demand for a cheap one in 3 rail.Can't think of a name for this one.

Here are some funny ideas I got for other new super deformed shells along the Beep/Burp lines. Walter, if you want them thier yours.(I would love the Acela one)

-The Burp= A compressed GE U-boat
-The Weep=A compressed contemporary whisper/wide cab engine
-The Bella= A compressed Acela highspeed train
-The Snub=A compressed Subway

There must be more....

[Anonymous]

Being from California looks like have to delay purchasing a couple Beefs and set of Peeps until they are offered in a western road name, 2007 maybe? Some suggestions would be a Southern Pacific Daylight Special, a Santa Fe Chief, or a Western Pacific/Rio Grande California Zephyr with domed Peeps. Oh, or how about a Las Vegas themed Special?

I’m still looking forward to an Air Force caboose to go with my two USAF Beeps.

Let me know so I can get my 2007 pre-order placed...

[Anonymous]

I don't think you'll have to wait long before Walter comes out with some western roadnames. He likely elected to stay with some relatively simple paint schemes in the initial run (in roadnames that enjoy a good deal of popularity in the larger eastern market). But give the history of the BEEPs, the BEEFs will also be available in a rainbow of liveries in due time, and they may sell even better than the BEEPs.

Walter has found himself a very nice little niche here--maybe not so little, in fact.

[Anonymous]

Strasburg RR has had a Plymouth since the begining. One was thier very first engine, It ran the first passenger runs and now stay in a supporting role in the background. They actually have two Plymouths #1 and #2. They also have a 44 tonner and 2 gas electrics. As a rule they try not to use them to haul passengers but the gas cars go out in the off season. I would not be surprised if you missed it. The whole place is a bit distracting....what with the quality of the train and the steam engines and all.

Here is a link to pictures. One of the pictures has a watermark date of 1978 one 1998 and one 2002 so maybe it really has been a while since you visited.http://www.northeast.railfan.net/strasburg.html

[Anonymous]

That Plymouth from K-Line in Strasburg livery is one item I'm certainly going to hang onto, since we're not likely to see it again in the near future. I guess I must have eight or ten different K-Line Plymouths--one of the nicer lower-end locomotives they ever produced. The matching sets of ore cars are darn nice, too.

[Anonymous]

Alan those shorty ore cars are great. They actually are models of very common 19th century ore cars. They would be a great start for Lionel/K-line to begin a 19th century line or at least frieght for the Generals. I love mine and wish I could find more.

[artyoung]

I love my BEEP and am looking forward to the PEEPS. I wouldn't expect a 44 ton from Walter, since his pricing depends on using existing dies. BUT : does anybody else remember the old AHM "O" scale 0-8-0 kits ? Plastic-bodied steamers, not great pullers(back then, but motors have really improved since). I remember some fantastic kit-bashed Mallets shown in MR and the old OSR magazines. Would anybody consider a D-I-Y loco today ?

[Anonymous]

SAlthough it's true that Walter's BEEPs and BUDDY's had their origins based, in large part, on existing molds, I don't think that can be said of the BEEFs and PEEPs, which apparently are made with new tooling. At least I sure don't recall previous commercially made O gauge products created in those styles.

So I wouldn't count Walter out in regard to other innovative products that may be offered in the future (but probably not in the near future since I imagine he's pretty well occupied with getting the two new products out--and sold--now).

I have no idea what he might be thinking about for the longer-term future, but he's done a pretty good job, to date, in tickling folks fancy with the neat little products he has offered to this point.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by emmaandy

Strasburg RR
The whole place is a bit distracting....what with the quality of the train and the steam engines and all.

Here is a link to pictures. One of the pictures has a watermark date of 1978 one 1998 and one 2002 so maybe it really has been a while since you visited.http://www.northeast.railfan.net/strasburg.html

Thanks for posting this link. I get there about once a month, but it IS hard keeping track of all they now have. In June '04 I had the privilage of riding in the cab of #475 during a run. Joe

[FJ and G]

If in fact the BEEF IS new tooling, then perhaps in the future he could offer some replicas of little switchers that once existed, like the first tiny diesel with drivers. Now that would be pretty exciting to see. I think then that he could capture the whimsical as well as the unwhimsicals. [:D]

[msacco]

I don't know, I also think they look strange. I think the beep was better pulled off. These beefs are strangely compressed IMHO.
I must have an early Beef because, I really don't like the way mine runs. Stalls or balks on my 022 switches. Is there a remedy for this anyway.

Mike Sacco

[Craignor]

Mike,

The fix for running Beeps through switches is adding a second Beep.

The second Beep pushes the first through the switch fast enough to prevent the first one from shifting into neutral.

I use Realtrax 0-72 switches and had the same problem as you. I emailed Walter about a fix, and he recommmeded the second Beep as a fix. It sounded like slick salesmanship, but it worked for me![:)]

Try it.

[douellet]

I haven't had any problem with my Buddies or Beeps stalling on 022 switches. I have to say the Beep is the better runner of the two. I like the idea of a 44 ton style loco mounted on Beep running gear. Other small locos using the same drivetrain would also be neat. Let's hope RMT keeps coming up with neat and affordable new products. [:)]

[jimhaleyscomet]

You can also extend a wire into the plastic frog from the center rail. I did this on 027 switches (used a solder iron to just barely melt the wire into the frog) and it worked well. I like the two beep idea. I will try that one.

I wonder how does Walter manufacture and sell Beeps below $70 when no one else seems to do it below $100 and stay in business?

Jim H

[FJ and G]

Jim says: "I wonder how does Walter manufacture and sell Beeps below $70 when no one else seems to do it below $100 and stay in business?"

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Yeah, makes me feel like a chump. G scale has had similar price offerings on critter locos for that price. Chump, chump, chump.[banghead][banghead]