Need help with cattle car and stockyard set

[davidwebb]

I just bought a used set - without instructions.
I don't know how it is worked, how to connect it, and I don't know if I have the correct control rail.
Any info or advice would be appreciated.
David

[phillyreading]

Welcome David,

Most cattle cars need to use a remote controlled uncoupling track, the one I am familier with is the Lionel five rail UCS track. You need to know how your cattle car gets power, there are normally two ways, one is thru pickup shoes on the bottom of the car-both positve & negative pickup over the UCS track, the second is to get the positive from the pickup shoe and the negative from the car frame if it is metal.
The UCS track needs to have both a negative feed and a positive feed to activate the cattle car. The wired remote with it is simply a momentary on/off switch that you press down on.
Lee Fritz

[davidwebb]

Thanks Lee,
How is the stockyard powered? Just aux power to the two terminals? Or does it need an on/off?
David

[Roger Bielen]

David, if it is the set I'm familiar with (3656) a standard section of 3 rail track snaps into the base, there are two upright pieces of the sheet metal that make the contact with the car shoes. The height of the coral is adjustable for either O-27 or O track height. Power, and common, is connected to the coral terminals with an on/off switch in the circuit. Not to be discouraging but this is considered one of Lionel's blunders, the car/coral is very difficult to get to operate reliably. I have fooled with mine making modifications and it seems every time I solve one problem another occurs. Mine is currently a non-operating item on my layout, someday maybe I'll get back to fooling with it.

[phillyreading]

Roger, I am familiar with only a few of the operating accessories made by Lionel and from what you say about it maybe that is why I stay away from operating accessories except for the semafore or crossing gates.
Lee F.

[Anonymous]

As Roger points out, do not use the UCS. For one thing, it does not supply power to the corral! The corral includes a frame to place a section of tubular track next to the corral. Between the 3 rails are two frogs to supply power to the car. On 027 track the frogs reach the contact shoes on the car. Make sure the top is not rusty to get a good contact. For O track there are two clips to extend the height of the frogs to reach the shoes. Doesn't work with Super O or OEM track, they block the frogs. Has to be tubular.
Power is to the corral contacts. The plate in the corral that the cattle tread on should be loose enough to vibrate. Voltage is tricky, supply enough to get the cattle to move but not so much they jump around. Cattle move left to right in the corral, right to left in the car. (Just the opposite of the horse car). Really tough to correct the ones that fall inside the car.
Make sure the rubber fingers on the base of the cattle are vertical or close to it. Store them with no pressure on the fingers.
I often suspect that Lionel made the operating cars balky so the kids would have to "play" with them just to get them to work.

[Sturgeon-Phish]

Is your stockyard the lionel or the AF 771?
Jim

[jefelectric]

David, As Roger pointed out the stock yard and cattle car can be frustrating. After about 5 years of fiddling with mine, I just took it off the layout. Thinking about selling it on ebay. The milk car, although not perfect works much better.

[jefelectric]

David, Send me an email with your email address and I will send you some information on the stock car/stock yard.

[SPFan]

With a little patience and fiddleing it can be made to work reliably. Depending on applied voltage the cattle on mine can make the circuit in about 10 seconds. Longer if the voltage is reduced. Some fiddleing with the car may also be required.
If you lift the deck that the cattle traverse you should see two round felt pieces attached to green supports on the base. By shimming these felt pieces you can alter the amount of vibration transmitted to the platform. Also the tabs on the back of the "bridge" sections that drop down to mate with the car doors need to be adjusted to the same level as the car.

When these were new they worked fairly well, at least mine did in 1950. When I acquired my current one a few years ago it didn't work all that well but because I knew that it could work I was determined to make mine operate like they did 50 years ago.

Pete

[jefelectric]

Pete, You are right, they can be made to work as I have seen some that worked pretty well. I just didn't want to invest the time and effort to make it happen.

[hugoroundhouse]

Just one suggestion for all thestockyard owners out there... especially fellow Flyer guys. I always wanted a stock yard and finally collected all the individual pieces (yard, car, control button, roof, etc., ) to restore a junker. Got it all set up and put two repro cows in there and fired her up.... nothing. The yard seemed to vibrate and hum, the car did too, but the cows would not move. I fiddled and fiddled with it, even making sure I got cows an not mules. No luck. Just gave up for about a month.

I got to dscussing it with the owner of a local Lionel shop and he said the Lionel ones were very tempermental, but the AR ones usually were better and to check the rubber mat. I checked it and it looked fine to me. One corner was not stuck down, the rest was. I thought the whole thing was probably glued down at the factory so the metal base would virate through it easier. So, I gently lifted the mat in preparation of cleaning and re-gluing. Just for the fun of it, i turned it on with the mat just laying in the yard - unglued. Viola!! The cows took off and ran around like kids had tied firecrackers to their tails - up the ramp and into the car they went!! Have had a great time with it ever since and it's a favorite for my son and grandson. It always brings a chuckle as the steers get to going in circles before they finally head up the ramp.

Moral of the story - take a look at your mat and see if having it loose improves it's performance. It sure did for me.

Jim E.

[Anonymous]

Jim E: sounds like you kit bashed a horse corral with cows. The 3656 cattle car platform was at the same level as the car. The horse car had a corral was at ground level with ramps for the horse to climb. The horse corral didn't have all the dividers to form lanes like the cattle platform. Good to learn that the cows go so quick in the horse corral. When I ran one with a horse I remember it was much faster than the cattle setup.

[Dr.Fu-Manchu]

The Doctor Is In! I read the posts, All have good info. The stockyard/cattle car is fun if you maintain them. Also, to corect Grumpy4; Super O came with a #38 accessory adapter track set to use with the stockyard. I refit stockyards and am willing to send anyone the article on tuning up the item and a photo copy of the instructions(for printing costs) I will also be selling refurbished stockyards in the near furture(email if interested)
Till My Next Missive I Remain The Humble But Strangly Evil Doctor !!![}:)]

[davidwebb]

Thank you all for the info so far.
The set is a Lionel.
The single most important thing I have learned so far is to use 3 rail tubular track - the set came with the 5 rail operating track - and I could not figure how that worked with the stockyard.
I now sound pretty dumb, but Lionel is a rare thing here in England, and although I have a reasonable amount, I have never actually seen anyone else's.
David
PS I shall be unavailable for a week, so if I don't reply, that's why.

[traindaddy1]

Hello, it's me again! THANK YOU. I was saving my pennies to buy the 3656 cattle set-up on E-Bay and, after reading your comments, have decided that I should give it a second thought. (You see, while my waistline is growing thick, my patience is growing thin and, knowing me, the car would probably become one of those "Flying Boxcars" - if you know what I mean!)

[lionelsoni]

The vibration of the platform is produced by the alternation of the current supplied to it. It may make sime difference to its operation that this is at 50 hertz in England, whereas it was likely designed with 60 hertz in mind.

[Back2Trains]

The Lionel cattle platform sits on 3 foam pads. These deteriorate over time and many times they are found with felt or other replacement pads. Replacement pads are available from train parts suppliers and are necessary to make the accessory work properly. There is a fourth pad located on the electromagnet armature; this one should also be replaced. The car also uses three pads which are a different part number than those for the corral. The part number for the car pads is:3656-15. For the platform: 3656-169. I just noticed that the service manual states that 2 pads are used under the platform, but I checked mine and confirmed that there are 3. I think that the difference in powerline frequency may slow the action but it should still work.
My wife played with one of these in the early '50s and says that half the fun was guiding the cattle around the corral.

[msacco]

I would recommend the the new modern version of the cattle corral. It's really the old postwar horse version but Lionel now uses cows on the platform
It was released, I believe in the late 90s and is pretty reliable. Occassionally a cow will fall over coming down the ramp but more often than not it works very well.

Mike Sacco

[baltimoredrummer]

Hello Doctor.  I would love to get some information on tuning up the stockyard accessory.  A copy of the instructions would also be very helpful.  I purchased this item without instructions and I am a bit lost as to how to get it running.

Thanks.

Baltimoredrummer

[Dr.Fu-Manchu]

Dear Baltimoredrummer: The Doctor is In!  Let me find my instructions and tune-up article and I can send them to you. Email me your mailing address and I can fix you up.

The Doctor

[baltimoredrummer]

Doctor,

 

Thanks for the response.  I can't quite figure out how to email you directly, so here is my address:

 

Brian Yost

711 S. North Point Road

Baltimore, MD 21224

 

Many Thanks.

 

Baltimoredrummer

[bfskinner]

The link below  might help some of you a little. As I recall, the keys to powering the "3656" system are two special contacts that mount in  ordinary three-rail track. See the objects marked 'O' gauge Ground Clip, 3656-66; 'O' gauge Power Blade 3656-67  and 'O-27 gauge Power Blade 3656-68 on page 6 of the illustrations.

This is for the 1950 item which differed from the '49 item; and, as others have pointed out, there have been other variations throughout the years, involving cattle and horses.

The post-war types can be made to work, but 'taint easy.  A lot of "stars" must be in allignment.

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=545

For some possibly useful additional info see

http://pictures.olsenstoy.com/searchcd31.htm?itm=544

.

[arkady]

I have got to say, I am really surprised at all the negative comments about PW cattle car unreliability.  I run both my cattle car and its associated pen from variable voltage, and I've never had the slightest problem with either.  There must be a lot of cattle cars and stockyards out there that have gotten seriously beaten up over the years.

 

[Anonymous]

arkady,

                I agree with you on that.  I've worked on both the 1949 model (serviced 3) and the 1950 model (serviced 8), and the 1950 redesign is probably the source of those negative comments.  The simplified method of mounting the platform with adhesive washers didn't hold up through the years like the 1949 model's more complicated grommeted tip method did.  The adhesive wahers either harden or disintegrate.

If exact reproductions were available, that wouldn't be an issue.  I never could find reproductions of the 3656-17 washers for the car or 3656-169 washers for the corral that gave the performance I was after.  I made my own washers from mousepads available at an office supply or computer store and an ordinary 1/4" hole punch. 

Cattle are another factor.  Originals that are pliable, have a base that is flat and not warped, and have all fingers intact are the best.  Beware of reproductions here.  Some of the repro cattle work great, and some don't work at all.  Here is how I tell the difference between the good and bad reproductions:

Overall Size:  The reproductions that function properly are the same size as the originals.  Avoid reproductions that are smaller.

Fingers:  The reproductions that work properly have all fingers present, and the front finger points back as it should.  The bad repros are missing a finger on the figure's left side, and the front finger is angled forward, opposite of what it should be.

Smell:  I know, this sounds really strange.  Smelling the cattle will help you tell original from reproductions.  The rubber that Lionel used for the cattle has a very distinct odor, which all repros lack . 

[KRM]

Check out these videos from the past showing your cattle car. so neat.

http://www.jlmtrains.com/

Go to showroom layout and click on Video gallery two 8 min and one 30 sec videos . Very cool.

 Tks Kev.

[Dr.Fu-Manchu]

The Doctor, after a hiatus is Back!

I was contacted by raubsville about a non-working cattle car. He said the stockyard was working, the was not. There are 2 reasons for this: One, the wire going to the shoe is broken somewhere. Two, the coil may have died. The first is easy to fix, the second means a donor car for the part. I can sell him a car, as I have a few spare ones. The coil is no longer offered by parts dealers(as far as I can tell) Please email me off site and let me know which problem you have found. I also have some stockyards, either whole or parts. contact me off line if you are in need of items. A side note: if you use 0-27 track, either use the older black tie type. Otherwise you have to respace the end ties to get the track to snap into the stockyard base. I learned this when I refurbished a set for a former member.

Dr.Fu-Manchu, Humble as Ever!

[frvolus]

do you have a foto of the bottom of the car that you can post? I think my car is missing the contact that is supposed to contact the blade between the tracks.

[servoguy]

Here is a link to a post I made a while back re modifying the cattle car and corral so that they work.

http://www.modeltrainforum.com/showthread.php?t=15882&highlight=cattle+pen

I have two corrals and cars modified,and the cattle never stop going around and never fall over.

[TrainLarry]

Here is a photo of the bottom of the truck showing the sliding shoe. The parts are available at most online parts dealers.

Larry