Why did K-Line fail and what lessons can be learned from this?

[mickey4479]

Does Lionel actually manufacture anything any more? I assume they do some design work, but that may also be out soursed. Don't they contract with businesses that actually manufacture the products, including their boxes, then sell those products manufactured by someone else with "Lionel" on it?

Likewise, K-Line products were probably marketed the same way. If Lionel has a license to use the name, they could probably do both Doug, because who would complain if Lionel contract's with Sanda to use tooling prepared for K-line products?

[Anonymous]

Bob Keller
Wasn't K-lines B-6, the first 0-6-0 TMCC Switcher with operating couplers at both ends? I vaguely recall that the coupler feature attracted me to the engine and I was going to get one and have it painted for the Southern, but waited too late.

[mickey4479]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Leonard

Bob Keller
Wasn't K-lines B-6, the first 0-6-0 TMCC Switcher with operating couplers at both ends? I vaguely recall that the coupler feature attracted me to the engine and I was going to get one and have it painted for the Southern, but waited too late.

I bought one with TMCC several years ago. It does have operating couplers at both ends. It is a great looker, good detail, and runs well with the exception that it runs a little fast for me and hard to get it to crawl. I contacted TAS and they say there is a board that can be installed that upgrades the electronics and provides more steps. I am considering it but I am frankly chicken to tackle the retro by myself. I also have an MTH Railking PRR B6s Proto 2 that I am trying to sell at the local train show. It has operating couplers on both ends and is a good runner as well. I wanted to go to the scale versions rather than semi scale and made the decision to go with one operating system. I chose TMCC in large part because Lionel had the PRR steamers I wanted. I am still waiting for Lionel to market a scale PRR decapod.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the B-6 info Mickey.[:)]

[Anonymous]

K-Line is interesting company. It started out with a very simply product line with accessories and plasticville as its base. Then it started to make 0-27 diesel engines, cars, and sets. Its founder Maury Kline was an old Lionel distributor. Maury saw the success of MTH and tried to imitate it. Unfortunately, the stigma of its prior reputation was difficult to overcome. How was K-Line going to position itself in very limited and maybe declining market? Was K-Line similar to Lionel or MTH or Williams? Did it have the distribution channels and customer loyalty that the other 3 had built over the years? As mentioned earlier its demise was a combination of things:

1) Stiff competition with Lionel, MTH, and Williams
2) Confusion of the customers over K-Line's product positioning
3) A poor distribution channels of the product
4) Uncertain Quality
5) Poor Customer Service and repair parts
6) Unnecessary and unethical corporate behavior

It is sad. K-Line had some good points (Long Island Scoot, Napa Valley Wine Train, Coke Train, etc) but not good enough to compete with the big boys.

In closing, I am collector and operator of O gauge trains. K-line was only a same part of my collection. My main K-Line interest was their paper items. Does anyone know when the last K-Line catalog was published? I have K-Line Catalog 2005 First Edition. Finally, the K-Line debacle has similarities to other business failures such as Enron, World Com, and Compaq. As such, it would be a good candidate for a case in business Policy. Are any Business Professors interested in such an endeavor? Please respond to this thread.

fdunan

[TexasEd]

Missed this thread the forst time through.

I think they invested too much in new tooling too fast. In a span of a few years they had the Titan series, the Mikados, B-6, Berkshires, etc all with new tooling.

They should have limited their exposure to one new tooling a year. Then add new road names the following year with another new tooling.

The proof of over production was in the blow outs. I think they tried to kick in the door on the high end sales and they succeeded in getting our attention, but may not have had the distribution network to pull it off.

I still know people who ask me what K-line is. They needed to grow more slowly and steadily.

[brianel027]

fdunan, K-Line came first. K-LIne was already a company on its' own while Mike was still at that time making the standard gauge reproductions for Lionel.

I believe the very first K-Line catalog (I'm not looking at them right now) came out in 1987 or 1988 - but that first one was a tad thin. 027 track was one of K-Line's first product lines along with the reprints of the repair manuals. But the catalogs grew in size quickly.

Bob Keller, yeah I recently read a quote from Calabrese where he mentioned K-Line in the same breath as the "Lionmaster" product line. That be the case, it sounds to me more like middle range, more scale oriented K-Line products. The Lionmaster stuff is out of my league.

But bear in mind as a very long time K-Line buyer, that I'm not against Lionel. It's the simple truth that as far as "cheapie" products go, K-Line's were far superior in price and in value. One of the few exceptions would be Lionel's plastic Timken style truck which operates better than the Symington type K-Line made. But K-Line's Timken truck on the Train-19 product was nicer than Lionel's.

I'd still rather have a dual motored K-Line Alco S-2 than anything Lionel makes. The the 027 K-Line Alco FA beats the Lionel one hands down, despite the "changes" made to the Lionel one (plastic frame, "restored" filled in coupler opening). Even CTT in the past has pointed out how much nicer the K-Line one is over the Lionel one.

And given the success of the RMT products (which probably no one would have guessed if you had asked in advance) I'd say there is plenty of room for some decent quality level K-Line (MARX, Kusan, AMT) origin products. What dual motored locomotive from Lionel is in the same price league as the RMT "Beep." Even the catalog copy writers at Lionel don't always know the exact specs as advertised single motored diesels have unexpectedly come with dual motors. Too bad they didn't make that mistake with the Conrail U36B or I would own one.

And look at the Buddy too... Walter seems to understand that there is most certainly a market (even though they might not make the twice yearly pilgrimage to YORK) for quality dual-motored affordable starter types of products - that also leave room for upgrades and improvements.

If you have ever run a recent production single motored Lionel RS3 or U36B, you'll fully understand why I absolutely prefer the K-Line Alco FA, MP-15 and Alco S-2.

Whether Lionel goes with this line of thinking is of course, anyone's guess.